Citizenship Question

[Bobsmyth]

3. I have since lost my passport I used to enter the US.

Also with my current Alien Card expired back in 1989, what are my chances at getting a passport using my expired Alien Card?

You're referring to your foreign passport, right? Having a valid GC is not a requirement to renew your foreign passport.

 

[Al Southner]

It's possible to be both a LPR and a USC. There have been several posters in the past who have reported that their N-400 was denied on the fact they were unknowingly already a USC. In the OP's case, it appears he has been a USC all along but never applied for N-600 to show proof that he was.

Bob,

Yes I am aware of such circumstance, except it appears as if the OP has problems with his adoptive parent upon turning 18yrs, and had to move-out and live with a govt agency or another family. With him moving out, possible that some of his immigration paperwork are with the adoptive parent. What is encouraging from his posts is that he's in touch with the parent who is eager to see a positive outcome out of this issue. In my view, this is where things might not have gone well (when he moved out), especially as history shows that most native born US citizens are clueless on immigration stuff, so his adoptive parent might not have filed or applied for his US citizenship. It is my hope that he is a US citizen, because this case has a potential to create stress for the OP.

 

[Al Southner]

Op.

 

[Deakon]

You're referring to your foreign passport, right? Having a valid GC is not a requirement to renew your foreign passport.

Yes, The foreign passport from the Philippines is what I lost. However, I now want to obtain a US passport and also obtain proof of citizenship(N-600).

Will I need a valid GC to apply for a US passport?

 

[Bobsmyth]

Yes, The foreign passport from the Philippines is what I lost. However, I now want to obtain a US passport and also obtain proof of citizenship(N-600).

Will I need a valid GC to apply for a US passport?

No, as a GC is not required for passport application.

 

[Jackolantern]

No, as a GC is not required for passport application.

In some circumstances such as derivative citizenship through a parent (which includes the situation discussed in this thread), the GC is required for a first-time US passport application. Or at least some form of proof of permanent residence is required, and without a GC such proof may be tedious or impossible to obtain.

 

[Jackolantern]

In my view, this is where things might not have gone well (when he moved out), especially as history shows that most native born US citizens are clueless on immigration stuff, so his adoptive parent might not have filed or applied for his US citizenship.

True

 

[Bobsmyth]

In some circumstances such as derivative citizenship through a parent (which includes the situation discussed in this thread), the GC is required for a first-time US passport application. Or at least some form of proof of permanent residence is required, and without a GC such proof may be tedious or impossible to obtain.

Aren't you confusing application for naturalization certificate as the passport application instructions make no such mention:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_4315.html

 

[anxiouscdn2]

Aren't you confusing application for naturalization certificate as the passport application instructions make no such mention:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_4315.html

As it happens, I went to the post office just yesterday with my 16 year old daughter, who, by the provisions of the Child Citizenship Act of 2000, became a USC on Friday at the same instant as I did, to apply for our passports. According to the Act, to become a USC she had to be my child and residing in the US as a permanent resident, in my legal and physical custody. The proof that she was a permanent resident is, of course, her green card.

The post office clerk, who seemed quite conversant with taking this kind of application, took both my daughter's original foreign birth certificate (for proof that she's my child) and her green card (for proof she was an LPR when I naturalized) and included them in the packet going to the State Dept. The clerk alleged that the green card would not be returned.

I think I've read several accounts on the forum in which people have mentioned the child's green card was returned, so I'm figuring I'll wait and see what happens about that. But these accounts did all involve having the green card as part of the passport application. It does make logical sense.

 

[Jackolantern]

Aren't you confusing application for naturalization certificate as the passport application instructions make no such mention:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_4315.html

It doesn't mention it because they don't give an exhaustive, comprehensive list of everything under the sun that could possibly constitute secondary evidence of US citizenship.

For a passport application, proof of US citizenship is required, and part of that proof will include proof of having permanent residence when under 18, if relying on the Child Citizenship Act (or similar older laws for derivative citizenship) without a certificate that qualifies as primary evidence. Normally that proof of having permanent residence will be the green card.

Everybody here who reported their experience in applying for first-time US passport for their foreign-born child mentioned having to submit the child's GC if they didn't have the N-600 certificate or other direct proof of citizenship such as the Consular Report of Birth Abroad.

 

[Bobsmyth]

The proof that she was a permanent resident is, of course, her green card.

So the question becomes if the GC needs to be current, or is it suffice to have been current at the time when the child was eligible for the benefit.

 

[Deakon]

It doesn't mention it because they don't give an exhaustive, comprehensive list of everything under the sun that could possibly constitute secondary evidence of US citizenship.

For a passport application, proof of US citizenship is required, and part of that proof will include proof of having permanent residence when under 18, if relying on the Child Citizenship Act (or similar older laws for derivative citizenship) without a certificate that qualifies as primary evidence. Normally that proof of having permanent residence will be the green card.

Everybody here who reported their experience in applying for first-time US passport for their foreign-born child mentioned having to submit the child's GC if they didn't have the N-600 certificate or other direct proof of citizenship such as the Consular Report of Birth Abroad.

I did make an attempt to apply for a US passport but received a call from the State Department saying that I needed proof of Citizenship.

The State Department is holding on to my request until I can provide them with proof, for how long I’m not sure as they already have my fee.

The only thing I did not send them is my GC, I had figured that the GC was expired and would serve no purpose. In this case, I think my GC will be my only hope to getting a passport if not then I will not be able to obtain a passport until I get a Certificate of Citizenship by filling out the N-600.

So is it right to assume that there is no way around getting a US passport without filling out an N-600 and that my GC will not be adequate to getting a US passport?

I’m back to confused again..…

 

[Jackolantern]

So is it right to assume that there is no way around getting a US passport without filling out an N-600 and that my GC will not be adequate to getting a US passport?

The GC is not adequate by itself, but you don't need the N-600 to get a passport if you have proof of all the things I listed in post #6 (quoted below for convenience). Which of those things did you provide to them?

You will need to gather evidence for the following:

1. You were adopted before age sixteen.
2. You only have one legal parent (if you had two, you would need some other evidence such as whether they were married or divorced or deceased but you don't so I won't go into those details).
3. You were living in the US with your adoptive father before age 18 (even if only for a short time).
4. He was a US citizen at the time of #3.
5. You were a permanent resident at the time of #3 (your green card would prove this, even though it's expired).

 

[Deakon]

So the question becomes if the GC needs to be current, or is it suffice to have been current at the time when the child was eligible for the benefit.

Right, not sure if anyone else have read any succesful attempts to obtain a US passport using an expired GC.

I'm going to also fill out the form N-600 and when my interview comes, I hope they will be very understanding of why my GC was never renewed.

I just don't want the expired GC to negatively count towards my eligibilty to obtain CoC. The other documents I have should suffice in terms of my adoption papers, amended birth certificate, expired Green Card.

I really wish things did not go the way they did, Governement laws especially immigration can be very confusing, even Social Services did not understand the law and I'm in this situation as a direct result.

 

[Jackolantern]

Right, not sure if anyone else have read any succesful attempts to obtain a US passport using an expired GC.

I remember at least one such case on this forum.

I'm going to also fill out the form N-600 and when my interview comes, I hope they will be very understanding of why my GC was never renewed.

They will, given your situation. But remember the N-600 takes 4-6 months to process. If you don't want to wait that long to have a solid proof of citizenship in your hands, you need to submit the necessary evidence for the US passport, which would be issued in a few weeks or less.

 

[Deakon]

I remember at least one such case on this forum.


They will, given your situation. But remember the N-600 takes 4-6 months to process. If you don't want to wait that long to have a solid proof of citizenship in your hands, you need to submit the necessary evidence for the US passport, which would be issued in a few weeks or less.

I will submit my GC for further processing of my US Passport. I will pray that all is well and that they will accept it.

I can then go back and to Social Security office and save my job by correcting E-Verify.

Also will submit my N-600 and hope State Department returns all my original documents of my adoption and ammended birth certificate.

Again, thank you everyone who have commented, I apologize if I have created a few arguements regarding my situation. Everyone's comment has helped right or wrong, someone always has the right answer and have good points.

Everyone's comment have led me to being more confident on the actions I have to make.

 

[Bobsmyth]

The other point to remember is that not everyone accepts a passport as proof of US citizenship (eventhough it is), so having N-600 is a good back up to have in those circumstances.

 

[Jackolantern]

Also will submit my N-600 and hope State Department returns all my original documents of my adoption and ammended birth certificate.

Don't file the N-600 without the necessary supporting documents, as that can delay the processing.

But the N-600 only requires copies of the documents, so if you already have copies you can send them with the N-600 (however, you should bring the originals when you show up at a USCIS office at the end of the process to take a mini-oath and get the certificate).

The State Department won't return your GC, so make sure to take a copy of it (both sides) before sending it to them, so you'll have the copy to use for the N-600.

 

[Deakon]

Well looks like I just ran into a wall.

I called the officer in charge of my passport process and he said that the GC is not sufficient due to how the law was back when I was born. I was born in 1973 and according to the law that I need a CoC to finish processing my request.

He explained that if I was born in 1983 or after then the forms I sent to him would be all he needed to process my US passport…..

I need to find out what the law was back in 1973 that excludes me from being a USC through adoption compared to the new law that took effect in 1983.

I'm surprised that they aren't going by the date I was adopted, even though I still would not have made the cut since I was adopted in 1982. More beuacracy to research, it seems never ending.

 

[Jackolantern]

Well looks like I just ran into a wall.

I called the officer in charge of my passport process and he said that the GC is not sufficient due to how the law was back when I was born. I was born in 1973 and according to the law that I need a CoC to finish processing my request.

He explained that if I was born in 1983 or after then the forms I sent to him would be all he needed to process my US passport…..

He's probably thinking of the Child Citizenship Act which took effect in 2001. If you were born in March 1983 or later, you would have been under 18 in Feb 2001 when the Child Citizenship Act took effect.

Seems like this is a case of that person not being familiar with the old law before the Child Citizenship Act, because they don't deal with cases like this very often. Others on this forum have managed to get a passport based on the old law, without the Certificate of Citizenship.

However, the person you spoke to may have a point, because under the old law I think there were some nuances regarding adopted children that didn't apply to biological children. So you may have to submit more evidence, or it's possible that you don't have US citizenship if all the additional conditions weren't satisfied. Give me a chance to see what I can find.

What other evidence did you submit for the passport? Where did you apply -- a post office, or a passport agency?

Meanwhile, to save your job, you probably should go back to your employer and fill out the I-9 saying you are a permanent resident. That should make the eVerify confirm you. If the employer asks why, just say that the government database says you are a permanent resident, so you will accept that right now, but you are digging up your old immigration paperwork plan to establish your citizenship and it will take a long time to obtain all the documents and get the government records updated to reflect your citizenship.