citizenship and trouble

[Al Southner]

If it is so serious, why didn't USCIS take any action at that time when he
was caught?

WBH,

Only if we think smarter about questions that we ask, only and only then, we will have a better planet. Here is the answer to your illuminating question: The OP was a minor at the time of this incident... I think CBP acted with proper care, but did the correct thing by documenting his case.

However, I wonder why the OP didn't just return home and get this student visa which could have saved him hell of detention and possibility that if disclose this offense in his N400, he might be a juicy candidate for denial and deportation back to Mexico. Let us think about the consequence of our actions before we do the deed...

 

[acr]

WBH,

You are correct on the I-485. Children are normally listed as dependent in the principal's application for GC, and hence they don't fill out a completely different or new.

I-485 is individual thing. Everybody has to file on their own.

 

[Al Southner]

I-485 is individual thing. Everybody has to file on their own.

A minor doesn't file for I-485. When did USCIS requires minors to file for 485? I suspect your knowledge of these things is limited, but somehow you are the expert on all of them....

 

[dms1]

A minor doesn't file for I-485. When did USCIS requires minors to file for 485? I suspect your knowledge of these things is limited, but somehow you are the expert on all of them....

The INS/BCIS/USCIS has always required every individual seeking a greencard to file their own I-485 regardless of age. I remember at the time asking my attorney if my fifteen-year old step-son should sign his I-485 himself or if it had to be signed by an adult.

 

[Al Southner]

The INS/BCIS/USCIS has always required every individual seeking a greencard to file their own I-485 regardless of age. I remember at the time asking my attorney if my fifteen-year old step-son should sign his I-485 himself or if it had to be signed by an adult.

This one belongs to news of the weird people.... I know of a case currently being processed by USCIS in which a two minors were added to their parents GC application and we approved. I don't remember seeing the two boys or their paretns complete a separate I-485. This is NYC.

 

[Huracan]

Given that they suspended your visa for lying, they almost surely have a record of the suspension and why it was done.

There are three things that might save you:

1. It happened before you were 18.
2. It happened before you got a green card. Was this disclosed on your green card application?
3. If your parents are now US citizens, you may already be a citizen if they were citizens before you turned 18 and you went to live with them while under 18 with a green card.

A false claim to US citizenship is a deportable offense and you are risking deportation by applying for citizenship. If you admit it, they may use their discretion to decide against deporting you, but you will surely be deported if you lie about it and get caught. If you can't afford a lawyer (preferably two or three, given the serious nature of the situation) at least for a one-time consultation for a few hundred dollars to evaluate your situation against the applicable laws and precedents, be happy that you were able to obtain and maintain the green card, and forget about applying until you can afford a lawyer.

I agree with Jackolantern. It happened when you were a minor, there might be some leniency in that case. However, it might be good to check with some lawyers before applying. I wouldn't try to hide this from N-400 as you can be certain there is a record somewhere about this event. Sooner or later they will digitize those records and might be really tempted to cross check things in search of "fraudulent" cases and prosecute some or all. How big are your chances of getting in trouble in the future if you are not caught during N-400 processing are not too big, but I think it would still be better to plan about disclosing this information in the N-400 whenever you line up some good lawyer help.

 

[WBH]

I agree with Jackolantern. It happened when you were a minor, there might be some leniency in that case. However, it might be good to check with some lawyers before applying. I wouldn't try to hide this from N-400 as you can be certain there is a record somewhere about this event. Sooner or later they will digitize those records and might be really tempted to cross check things in search of "fraudulent" cases and prosecute some or all. How big are your chances of getting in trouble in the future if you are not caught during N-400 processing are not too big, but I think it would still be better to plan about disclosing this information in the N-400 whenever you line up some good lawyer help.

What if you leave some quetions on N-400 unanswered (check neither Yes nor No) but wait to ask the interview office how to answer?

 

[Huracan]

What if you leave some quetions on N-400 unanswered (check neither Yes nor No) but wait to ask the interview office how to answer?

I think USCIS really dislikes people leaving things blank in the application. They'll definitely ask during interview and might bring even more attention to that point.

 

[Al Southner]

What if you leave some quetions on N-400 unanswered (check neither Yes nor No) but wait to ask the interview office how to answer?

You attest by signing that the information contained is correct according to your best abilities. Clearly, if the OP can discuss this issue on this forum, his best abilities require that he disclose this issue when filing. I would strong advise him to spend about $200-$500 to speak to a reputable immigration law. A lawyer who's not to steer the OP to his own practice, but can provide him with a strong legal foundation which can help him in his application...

 

[WBH]

You attest by signing that the information contained is correct according to your best abilities. Clearly, if the OP can discuss this issue on this forum, his best abilities require that he disclose this issue when filing. I would strong advise him to spend about $200-$500 to speak to a reputable immigration law. A lawyer who's not to steer the OP to his own practice, but can provide him with a strong legal foundation which can help him in his application...

If Maslouj's case is approved, it means lawyers are useless because some of lawyers he consult suggest he better withdraw his application to avoid deportation.

 

[Al Southner]

If Maslouj's case is approved, it means lawyers are useless because some of lawyers he consult suggest he better withdraw his application to avoid deportation.

It will be a good idea to learn this simple principle: Not all lawyers are created equal.. Do you ever wonder what happened to all those average medical students? All of them became dentist.. So, just like poor and average law students, most of them practice shoddy law and provide incorrect information to their clients or prospective clients... In law, there is what is called a weight of evidence. The weight of evidence is based on the believability or persuasiveness of evidence. The probative value (tending to convince a person of the truth of some proposition) of evidence does not necessarily turn on the number of witnesses called, but rather the persuasiveness of their testimony. In the case which you reference, the persuasiveness of the applicant became the sole most important factor in USCIS making a determination that he simply errered in voting. In addition, the confusing nature and use or US national and US citizen was the single most important fact, and I believe the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has made a ruling on this on a case in Hawaii.

Lawyers aren't at all useless, but they are some of the most hated people after tow truck drivers. The OP need to carefully think about his options, find out how his dad got these GC and if this incident was ever disclosed in the GC application process.

 

[cafeconleche]

Well, I say do NOT lie on your application. There's a chance that since you were a minor when you lied, CIS will let you go if you haven't had any problems with the law since then. Also, definitely try to talk to a lawyer about it. There are pro bono lawyers, though I don't know who they are. Someone here might. But, they probably do have a record of this incident.

 

[Jackolantern]

If Maslouj's case is approved, it means lawyers are useless because some of lawyers he consult suggest he better withdraw his application to avoid deportation.

The lawyers who advised him to withdraw would not have been giving bad advice, because he still risked deportation by continuing with the N-400 process. If maslouj's naturalization is approved, that is just because of USCIS prosecutorial discretion. The next guy with a similar case could get deported.

 

[Razkolnikov]

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this tread. I haven't posted anything in two days because I've been busy with school.

In order to reply to those who mentioned that I should find more about how my dad applied for residenship, I'll let you know what I found out. I talked to him recently and he said that he is gonna look for copies of the applications since he does not remember what kind of form he used. Something he remembers however is that there were no questions in that form referring to anything regarding lying to an IO or pretending to be a US citizen to obtain a benefit. He said he remebers this because when he was applying for the family green cards he had me and my troubled history in his mind.

Putting that aside, I just would like to know what are the chances that immigration still has records of that incident that happened about 15-17 years ago. I ask this question considering that tons and tons of people consistenly cross the border illegally and are caught, and also back then computers were not as sophisticated. I know it would be risky to apply for citizenship either way but I would like to know.

 

[Razkolnikov]

WBH,

Only if we think smarter about questions that we ask, only and only then, we will have a better planet. Here is the answer to your illuminating question: The OP was a minor at the time of this incident... I think CBP acted with proper care, but did the correct thing by documenting his case.

However, I wonder why the OP didn't just return home and get this student visa which could have saved him hell of detention and possibility that if disclose this offense in his N400, he might be a juicy candidate for denial and deportation back to Mexico. Let us think about the consequence of our actions before we do the deed...

I agree. If I could go back in time this is the mistake I would like to fix. Trust me I've made bad decisions in my life, and this one is up there with the top 3. I am glad I have some experience now and will never, if can help it, make a similar mistake.

 

[Jackolantern]

Putting that aside, I just would like to know what are the chances that immigration still has records of that incident that happened about 15-17 years ago.

My guess would be at least 90%.

For example, they knew about this guy being refused entry in 1995: http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=2079135

Others have noticed stuff in their A-file going back more than 15 years.

I ask this question considering that tons and tons of people consistenly cross the border illegally and are caught, and also back then computers were not as sophisticated. I know it would be risky to apply for citizenship either way but I would like to know.

For many of those guys who get caught, they had no ID on them and they never had a US visa in their life, so the US government doesn't have reliable identifying information about who they are. For you they had identifying info, as you had a student visa that got canceled. And when they cancel a visa they'll want to keep a record of it for long long time, so they can look back on that when deciding whether to give you another visa.

I would like to form a family here in the states and I need to gain citizenship to be able to marry my Russian girlfriend. Also, money is kind of tight right now and I don’t want to pay a lawyer.

If money is that tight, you probably don't meet the financial requirements to sponsor a spouse for a green card.

 

[Jackolantern]

The reason we brought up the question of whether you disclosed this incident when applying for your green card is that if an incident was disclosed to INS/USCIS when applying for a green card, and they granted you the green card anyway, there are restrictions on their ability to deport you for that incident after granting the green card.

 

[WBH]

The lawyers who advised him to withdraw would not have been giving bad advice, because he still risked deportation by continuing with the N-400 process. If maslouj's naturalization is approved, that is just because of USCIS prosecutorial discretion. The next guy with a similar case could get deported.

If so, it is a gamble anyway. There is no need to consult a lawyer
just to try out luck. The people and the only people one need to
consult are USCIS. If you just want to be copnservative, you don't
need a lawyer. You can just refrain from citizenship application

Unless you are confortable with living with GC only, the best way is to
go ahead and apply for citizenship. Of course one need to prepared for
either results (deportation and citizenship)

 

[WhichWay2Go]

it means lawyers are useless because some of lawyers he consult suggest he better withdraw his application to avoid deportation.

It means that some Lawyers are useless. He went with the advice of the 3rd or 4th Lawyer and his case is now underway again.

It's like buying used car, the purchaser needs to do some homework and have the thing checked out by a competent mechanic. In this case research the lawyer's former cases. Ask the Lawyer to give you a list of say 10 Immigration cases within the past year. If he/she has only one or two in the past few years, find another to talk to.

The Court transcripts are Public Record so go along to the Court and ask to read the transcripts for those cases. paying $1500 for a really good experienced and capable Lawyer may be good value.

Most good lawyers will give you the first half hour free. If they don't, then "Next!"

 

[Al Southner]

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this tread. I haven't posted anything in two days because I've been busy with school.

In order to reply to those who mentioned that I should find more about how my dad applied for residenship, I'll let you know what I found out. I talked to him recently and he said that he is gonna look for the copies of the applications since he does not remember what kind of form he used. Something he remembers however is that there were no questions in that form referring to anything regarding lying to an IO or pretending to be a US citizen to obtain a benefit. He said he remebers this because when he was applying for the family green cards he had me and my troubled history in his mind.

Putting that aside, I just would like to know what are the chances that immigration still has records of that incident that happened about 15-17 years ago. I ask this question considering that tons and tons of people consistenly cross the border illegally and are caught, and also back then computers were not as sophisticated. I know it would be risky to apply for citizenship either way but I would like to know.

You father needs to find these files soon, because they hold key component on your application for N400. I am trouble by this issue that when your dad applied, he had your past troubles in mind. As far as I remember, you mentioned only lying to CBP about being a citizen. Do you have additional escapades which you haven't disclosed? If I were you, I wouldn't hope that the records disappeared. Do you ever wonder what happens when people are banned from obtaining a US visa for 10 or even permanent bar? The operative word here is permanent-even if that person try to come back to the US 20 years later, the CBP won't allow them into the country. I can assure you that CBP has a robust system for storing information, your file exist there too.