Can you get denied right at the interview? Or is it always via a letter?

[bcc8234]

I just had my interview and it ended as "decision cannot be made."

I was told that I should receive a letter within two weeks with their decision.

What I noticed though is that the form N-652 (interview results) only has two checkboxes for the results. Either A-approved or B-decision cannot be made.

There is no option for "declined/denied."

Does that mean they never deny applications on the spot?

In other words, does "decision cannot be made" mean "you are denied, we just don't want to tell it to your face to avoid any kind of disturbances in case you might be unstable" -- or does it really mean what it says, that they will in fact will be reviewing my information to make the decision?

I have a lot of long trips back-to-back. Each one is under 6 months, but together totaling 840 days. The IO said she would review my trips and make the decision.

I'm not really sure what to review there. It's either yes or no. Which leads me to believe that she already reached the decision, but simply didn't want to tell me on the spot. Maybe it's their procedure to handle denials this way?

 

[Al Southner]

If I were in your position, I would be concerned, because you are a travel suitcase.... Most denials I have seen on this board have been by mail and the letter is a certified letter, so if your mailman drops a pick-up notice in your mailbox, and upon picking-up the mail, you realize that it is from USCIS, then your denial will be official.

What is there to review is NOT for you to decide, but for the IO to review based on his training. Look at this from this perspective, do you rather be denied on the spot or by mail? Who knows what you would do in front of immigration officials? I had a decision cannot be made, and I never had any problems with USCIS stance, and within 10 days I received my approval and oath date. If your travels escapades don't mollify USCIS, then consider yourself a toast....lol!!!! It is futile to ascribe motive to the officer.

 

[baikal3]

I just had my interview and it ended as "decision cannot be made."

I was told that I should receive a letter within two weeks with their decision.

What I noticed though is that the form N-652 (interview results) only has two checkboxes for the results. Either A-approved or B-decision cannot be made.

There is no option for "declined/denied."

Does that mean they never deny applications on the spot?

In other words, does "decision cannot be made" mean "you are denied, we just don't want to tell it to your face to avoid any kind of disturbances in case you might be unstable" -- or does it really mean what it says, that they will in fact will be reviewing my information to make the decision?

I have a lot of long trips back-to-back. Each one is under 6 months, but together totaling 840 days. The IO said she would review my trips and make the decision.

I'm not really sure what to review there. It's either yes or no. Which leads me to believe that she already reached the decision, but simply didn't want to tell me on the spot. Maybe it's their procedure to handle denials this way?

An N-400 is never denied at the interview itself (except if the applicant fails the civics/english test - but even then the test is usually rescheduled). However, the fact that the IO checked the box "decision cannot be made at this time" does not mean that the case will be denied, it just means that the case requires further review before a decision. Plenty of such cases are eventually approved, as you'll see if you read other posts in this forum. The fact that you had a lot of extended back to back trips was probably what prompted the IO to check that box in your case. Even if the trips were under 6 months, the IO may still need to decide if any of this trip broke continuous residency. It is a common misconception to think that simply keeping all the trips shorter than 6 months each is sufficient for maintaining the LPR status. In fact even a shorter trip may be considered to have broken the LPR status, so a situation like yours would certainly require further review.

 

[bcc8234]

An N-400 is never denied at the interview itself

Thanks. That's what I wanted to find out. So I guess my chances aren't that good.

do you rather be denied on the spot or by mail

I would rather get denied on the spot, so that I can start the appeal process right away.

because you are a travel suitcase..

Yes, I am. But I also have $950,000 in my checking account, and two US-based businesses. And I'm about to start a third one.

If she denied me right on the spot (or at least told me that she is about to deny me), then I would at least try to explain the "whole picture" to her. I would show her that I have significant financial ties to the US (and had them for a long time).

Instead, she simply said that she needs to "review my trips."

She also asked me if I own a house or rent. I told her that I'm renting a one bedroom apartment. I guess if I had a mortgage, that would help. Buying real estate is close to the dumbest thing a person can do. But I guess that's off-topic.

In any case, I'll wait and see what happens.

 

[Al Southner]

Thanks. That's what I wanted to find out. So I guess my chances aren't that good.



I would rather get denied on the spot, so that I can start the appeal process right away.



Yes, I am. But I also have $950,000 in my checking account, and two US-based businesses. And I'm about to start a third one.

If she denied me right on the spot (or at least told me that she is about to deny me), then I would at least try to explain the "whole picture" to her. I would show her that I have significant ties to the US (and had them for a long time).

Instead, she simply said that she needs to "review my trips."

She also asked me if I own a house or rented. I told her that I'm renting a one bedroom apartment. I guess if I had a mortgage, that would help. Buying real estate is close to the dumbest thing a person can do. But I guess that's off-topic.

In any case, I'll wait and see what happens.

You won't find me hating or envious of your "claimed" 950K in the checking account. What you need is a financial advisor, to inform you that should your bank file for bankruptcy, your 950K is going to guarantee that you only receive 250K from Federal Reserve, and take a loss of 700K.

USCIS is going to inform you in due process of their decision, explaining your reasons for travel haven't won a day in the arena of rules and regulations as established by USCIS. As for real estate being the dumbest decision, you are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how foolish it might be, that's what make America what it is today. You are a renter, which means someone is making money of you sleeping in their space...

 

[Jackolantern]

Yes, I am. But I also have $950,000 in my checking account, and two US-based businesses. And I'm about to start a third one.

If she denied me right on the spot (or at least told me that she is about to deny me), then I would at least try to explain the "whole picture" to her. I would show her that I have significant financial ties to the US (and had them for a long time).

Did the interview raise concerns about your extensive travel? If yes, that's when you should have presented the "whole picture".

 

[bcc8234]

You won't find me hating or envious

Dude, you are projecting Let's just drop where this is going.

should your bank file for bankruptcy

My bank is "too big to fail," so I'm not worried about that. There will be food riots in the streets long before "my bank" files for bankruptcy.

What you need is a financial advisor

...who will tell me that the best thing to do right now is to maintain highest liquidity possible. Because if (when) the US dollar begins to collapse, you need to be able to reinvest "right now."

Not when your CD matures, not when you get to sell off the stock, not when .... whenever, but "now." And the only way to do that is to hold on to cash ready to be used.

Believe me, I've done my homework. But this is really off topic.

Did the interview raise concerns about your extensive travel? If yes, that's when you should have presented the "whole picture".

I did. And I showed her a couple of contracts related to those trips and a recent ATM receipt with the amount I mentioned above. But judging by the questions she was asking, she had no clue how to interpret the meaning of anything she read in those contracts. I'm not saying she is stupid, but that it would take a lot more than 5 minutes to understand certain things. And she didn't give me enough time to explain anything.

She was just asking "why were you away for so long" over and over. Eventually, she said she needs to review my travel dates and that she will make the decision within two weeks.

On the one hand, she didn't definitively deny me while providing the reason. On the other hand, she didn't seem to have taken all information into consideration.

 

[USHope]

my sibling is in the same boat

my sibling is in the same boat . She had repetitive extended (less than 180 days) trip in last 5 years, and got same "decision will be made later" on Dec 8th. We went for an infopass and the interviewing officer told to the guy who spoke with us, that her concern was multiple trips, and she needs to review the file.... we're still waiting.

 

[bcc8234]

USHope, that sucks. I was somewhat hoping that an infopass (I was planning on getting one after two weeks) appointment could be used to bring more supporting documentation or to be used as a chance to explain things further. But I guess that's not the case.

This is really annoying, isn't it? Reviewing the trips. Either say yes or no. What's there to review...

 

[Bobsmyth]

Decision can't be made means that case needs further review before a recommendation can be made.
There are no denials on the spot. Denials are set by mail, although an IO may tell you at interview that you have failed eligibility requirements.
How much time did you have between trips and what US residency ties dies you have while outside the US?

 

[bcc8234]

Decision can't be made means that case needs further review before a recommendation can be made.

That's the thing. "Review" is an extremely vague definition. If I spent too many days outside of the country, then just say it.
If you need to see what property/assets I own, then just say so. If you need some other piece of information, then just ask for it and let me produce it.

But simply saying, they'll "review" all information they already have in hand just doesn't make any sense. I guess they have their own procedures. But if I'm to be denied, I would like to know right away so I can plan the upcoming months of my life instead of waiting on something.

There are no denials on the spot.

Yes, thanks. I already got that much. Thanks for confirming it.

How much time did you have between trips and what US residency ties dies you have while outside the US?

3-4 days. One time, I was away for 165 days, then got back to the states for 3 days, registered a company, signed a contract in the name of that company and left for another 170+ days.

From the travel pattern perspective it looks bad. I'm not arguing with that.

But it's one thing to be living with your foreign wife in your foreign home while coming to the US once in a while. And it's a totally different thing when you are busy looking for offshore distributors and working out the logistics for an export operation.

Even right now, I should be outside of the US, but I'm stuck here doing pretty much nothing while my contracts are nearing expiration one day at a time. I'm actually starting another company just because there is nothing else I can do at the moment but sit and wait. Maybe I should just file for unemployment... chill for 4 years + 1 day and then apply again

 

[Jackolantern]

I did. And I showed her a couple of contracts related to those trips and a recent ATM receipt with the amount I mentioned above. But judging by the questions she was asking, she had no clue how to interpret the meaning of anything she read in those contracts. I'm not saying she is stupid, but that it would take a lot more than 5 minutes to understand certain things. And she didn't give me enough time to explain anything.

Your problem is that you didn't know what kind of evidence they want to see. You should have shown a full-fledged bank statement, not an ATM receipt. Preferably multiple bank statements scattered through the time you were taking those long trips, to show that you held your money in the US all along.

You said you're renting -- you should have showed a copy of the leases so they can see you were keeping your US home while you were gone.

And if you owned other major items in the US like a boat or car, you should show evidence that you owned it throughout the period of extensive travel.

But simply saying, they'll "review" all information they already have in hand just doesn't make any sense. I guess they have their own procedures.

They don't necessarily have all the information in hand yet. You are pushing the limits of continuous residence and physical presence, so they might need some extra time to search the CBP records to see if you missed a trip or listed any of the dates wrong. Also, a case like yours may need supervisor review.

 

[sanjoseaug20]

Even right now, I should be outside of the US, but I'm stuck here doing pretty much nothing while my contracts are nearing expiration one day at a time. I'm actually starting another company just because there is nothing else I can do at the moment but sit and wait. Maybe I should just file for unemployment... chill for 4 years + 1 day and then apply again

What do you expect them to do?
You managed to adhere to the letter of the law (at least in terms of length of trips), but not to the spirit. And they seem to have the right to check both aspects.
In life, there are trade-offs. Green cards and USCs come with their own challenges. You need to decide if these are worth it. Sometimes they come with so much s**t that you wonder why you even walked into the trap.

Anyway, there is no one holding you back in US. You can travel as long as you maintain your continuous residence, someone checks your mail, and then you show up for oath if called. While N400 processing might sound painful, it does not come with as many constraints as there might be with GC processing wherein a lack of advance parole or EAD might cause you travel or work issues.

Do what you need to (work/travel). And when this happens, it happens. Positive or Negative. 840 days is bad (in isolation), but still 60-70 days better than many people who got approved. You never know.

 

[bcc8234]

You should have shown a full-fledged bank statement, not an ATM receipt.

We could always call my bank if she didn't believe me for some reason. Actually, that's what bothers me the most about the process. Not the receipt itself, but if she had any concerns, she should have raised them right then and there. I would have found a way to prove everything I said. Or at least schedule a follow up so that I could provide any missing documentation. But I did have the statements, just not up to the last day. Up to November 2010. That's why I also brought the receipt.

Preferably multiple bank statements scattered through the time you were taking those long trips, to show that you held your money in the US all along.

I brought bank statements of two accounts for each month from mid 2005 till the end of 2010. A total of around 600 pages (maybe more). There wasn't as much money in the accounts back then as I have now. But I told her to pick any date she wants while I was out of the country and check to see that the activity never stopped. There is usually 5-10 transactions on any given business day. Never stopped for a day regardless of where I was. On top of that, there were constant out-of-country ATM withdrawals while I was away, which established (at least to some degree) that I didn't pick up a job overseas.

She grabbed 10 of so pages from the "middle" of the pile and told me she would attach them to my file and look over them later. I'm not kidding you. That's exactly how it happened. She didn't care about any follow up questions/information. At some point it looked like she was trying to get rid of me.

You said you're renting -- you should have showed a copy of the leases so they can see you were keeping your US home while you were gone.

I told her I can order copies of leases. (I partially lied there as one out of three places where I stayed during these 5 years was a friend's place, so I didn' have a lease for it.) But she said nevermind.
Again, it really looked like she just wanted me to pick up and leave. I signed everything (including the certificate form) before we began talking about my trips. So there was nothing else for me (and her) to do, but get up and step out of her office. And that's what she was trying to get me to do. At least it seemed so.

You are pushing the limits of continuous residence and physical presence, so they might need some extra time to search the CBP records to see if you missed a trip or listed any of the dates wrong. Also, a case like yours may need supervisor review.

This is what I'm hoping for deep down inside

What do you expect them to do?

I expected them to ask me more questions if they don't believe me or had some concerns about my actions/intentions.
I don't expect any miracles, but I hate the fact that it looks like they are going to deny me without giving me a chance to prove my case.
I'll do the appeal, but I'm guessing it will take months.

You can travel as long as you maintain your continuous residence

Traveling more seems like a bad idea now. I know that legally I can do it, but I really don't want to risk it any more.

Do what you need to (work/travel). And when this happens, it happens.

That was my attitude that landed me to where I am now

Sometimes they come with so much s**t that you wonder why you even walked into the trap.

That's how I feel right now. But I've lived in the states since I was 16. I'm 31 now, so this country truly is a home to me. If not for that, I would have left a long time ago.

I'm thinking about some way to add more documents to my file before she makes her decision. Do you guys think scheduling an infopass would work?
Would they let me do that if I call the help line and explain that some documentation is missing? Or would they not care?

 

[Bobsmyth]

I'm thinking about some way to add more documents to my file before she makes her decision. Do you guys think scheduling an infopass would work?
Would they let me do that if I call the help line and explain that some documentation is missing? Or would they not care?

At this point all you can do is wait. You can go for an Infopass and ask that additional supporting information be added to your case review since the IO didn't ask for it and that you're concerned the IO wasn't thorough enough during interview. You have noting to loose by doing so.
Maybe the IO already had her mind made up when she saw back to back trips with little time in between, who knows.

 

[baikal3]

I'm thinking about some way to add more documents to my file before she makes her decision. Do you guys think scheduling an infopass would work?
Would they let me do that if I call the help line and explain that some documentation is missing? Or would they not care?

Past experience shows that that is not likely to work. You are supposed to have all the required supporting documentation at the interview itself. In some cases the IO conducting the interview issues a kind of an RFE and asks the applicant to mail in some specific supporting documents - but that did not happen in your case. I am pretty sure that if you try to bring some extra documents to an INFOPASS on your own initiative, they will tell you to take a hike. If you case does get denied (which is not really certain at this point), rather than appealing it's better to file a new N-400 right away. An appeal takes a very long time and is just as expensive as a new N-400 application. You will have a slim chance of winning an appeal anyway because technically the burden was on you to prove to the IO's satisfaction at the interview itself that you satisfied all the naturalization requirements; any additional supporting documents that you might have come up with after the interview would be irrelevant.

With a new N-400 you'll have a chance to come to the (new) interview better prepared and with more supporting documentation (leases etc) proving your residential ties to the U.S. for the periods of your trips.

 

[sanjoseaug20]

You will have a slim chance of winning an appeal anyway because technically the burden was on you ...

While I agree with that, if the OP can show a bias on part of the interviewer, there might be a case. That could be shown by the interviewer's not taking all the documents the OP already had.

However, I still think the case is pretty much in an area where discretion will come into play ... you can decide this way or that, and challenge will be hard.

 

[bcc8234]

Well, I got some response from USCIS, after getting in touch with the local Congressperson. (I'm not sure if contacting the representative was a factor or not.)

Now, the IO wants me to follow up with some documents, most of which I offered during the interview (and she initially refused to look at them).

But what's really weird is that in addition to other paperwork she wants me to mail her my passport. Yep, you are reading this right, not a copy, but the passport itself.

The letter states that I need to send my passport (and proof of earnings and how I made my living during these years) by mail to their office. And they need to receive it by the due date which is roughly a month from now.

I actually brought the copies of all pages of my passport to the interview. She took them. So she has the copies with all my travel stamps. I also showed her my passport at the interview, and she examined it. So she saw the original. She could have made a copy herself (to make sure it's authentic or whatever) if she wanted to back then.

Still, if they need to see my passport again, that's OK. I would be happy to drive to the local office and show it. But mailing it?

So now I have a different problem. Obviously, I'm not mailing my passport anywhere. And there is no way for me to call the local office to talk to her supervisor.

Any ideas on what to do? I'll try the 800 number tomorrow, but the few times I called it in the past didn't result in much help.

 

[baikal3]

Well, I got some response from USCIS, after getting in touch with the local Congressperson. (I'm not sure if contacting the representative was a factor or not.)

Now, the IO wants me to follow up with some documents, most of which I offered during the interview (and she initially refused to look at them).

But what's really weird is that in addition to other paperwork she wants me to mail her my passport. Yep, you are reading this right, not a copy, but the passport itself.

The letter states that I need to send my passport (and proof of earnings and how I made my living during these years) by mail to their office. And they need to receive it by the due date which is roughly a month from now.

I actually brought the copies of all pages of my passport to the interview. She took them. So she has the copies with all my travel stamps. I also showed her my passport at the interview, and she examined it. So she saw the original. She could have made a copy herself (to make sure it's authentic or whatever) if she wanted to back then.

Still, if they need to see my passport again, that's OK. I would be happy to drive to the local office and show it. But mailing it?

So now I have a different problem. Obviously, I'm not mailing my passport anywhere. And there is no way for me to call the local office to talk to her supervisor.

Any ideas on what to do? I'll try the 800 number tomorrow, but the few times I called it in the past didn't result in much help.

If you use something like Express Mail to send your passport, it is not going to get lost.

Still, it sounds pretty strange that she wants you to mail the original.

If you are unwilling to do that, you could mail the other documents she wants together with a photocopy of your passport and attach a letter explaining why you can't mail the passport itself but are willing to bring it in person.

You could also write again to the local Congress member office and explain to them that the IO has made an unreasonable demand for mailing the original of the passport, explain that you consider it an unreasonable hardship and why, that you are willing to bring the passport in person and ask for help.

Other than that, maybe make another INFOPASS, bring your passport and its photocopy and try to talk to a live person at the local DO and explain your problem with the IO's demand; maybe ask to speak to a supervisor there as well. Perhaps getting a lawyer's help at this point may not be a bad idea - at least a lawyer may write a letter on your behalf explaining why the demand to mail the passport represents unreasonable hardship for you.

 

[Bobsmyth]

So now I have a different problem. Obviously, I'm not mailing my passport anywhere. And there is no way for me to call the local office to talk to her supervisor.

Any ideas on what to do? I'll try the 800 number tomorrow, but the few times I called it in the past didn't result in much help.

If you really can't go without your passport due to need to travel, send a copy of your passport along with a cover letter explaining that you would be more than happy to provide the passport (again) in person. Address all the evidence (registered letter) to the district director and explain (in cover letter) that you previously had all the evidence at the interview, but that the IO didn't request it. Follow up with an Infopass before the deadline and ask to speak with a supervisor regarding your case.