Can We settle on These Bases?

[140_takes_4ever]

Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by assur
I my opinion, Citizenship issue should be kept in separate thread because it only effects "Right of Vote" while I140 and I485 direcly and adversely effecting the life of a beneficiary and it became hard to get food for himself/herself and for their dependent family members.

I don't think you should seperate the two. One of the main reasons for going after GC is to ultimately go for the citizenship. As compared to people who applied in 2000 and received their GC's within 8 months, others like us, have been waiting in some cases upto 24 months in the AOS stage alone.

We should be recompensated for our time, and shouldn't have to suffer thanks to the INS. Only way we can do that is to incorporate it in the current set of demands. Please realise that is all that we are doing demanding! It is not that INS has to accept everything we demand, and it is not that they will not negotiate.

This is our golden opportunity to put all our pent up concerns in one package and bring it to the INS for discussion. We all know AILA is a JOKE! Petitions are filed in the dustbin! This lawsuit is the first time that INS will be forced to reply to each and everyone of our demands and give reasons. We should put forth all our concerns and see where that takes us.

Trust Rajiv and his team to weed out the unnecessary and over ambitious demands, bring forth all your concerns. As you can see from the number of Rajiv's responses on this thread, he is taking an active interest and actually reading through all the pages of posts. So don't worry, if he thinks something is wrong he WILL let us know!

 

[tmc]

reason for temporary relief...

imho, the most important fear of employment based petition is the fear of losing job and unable to find a same/similar job just in time for an rfe. waiting for 3 years just to lose it all in the final stage is hearbreaking. i don't speak for everybody, but for me, if they can solve that "one problem" it is a big step. agreed, citizenship clock and other issues are important, but they are all seconday (imho) when compared to this.

also, by the time they process the GC regularly (even if expeditiously, say 1 year, one could lose job in year and be denied), one could lose job. thats why i am saying give the stamp first, so that the "fear" is gone (as temporary relief). then over the next year or so process the regular card and send it.

ofcourse, if they can issue the actual GC itself in the same time as the temporary relief, then it is most welcome.

this is just my opinion though. thanks.

edit- ps. the tempGC also solves the citizenship clock problem to "some extent" (definitely not fully).

 

[functionalalert]

lets not forget the core issues

the settlement plan looks good but that's our wish list. i am sceptical these people will even listen to us and even if they do they will probably tell us to file the lawsuit knowing it will take many years,by which time we will probably be adjudicated anyway or most people will quit.

whats our backup plan if uscis says file lawsuit? how do we get interim relief? i am sure if they say file ,]we will file as a community,but the legal system will take atleast 2 years to resolve.so the repression will continue for a few more years??

are we not entitled to a speedy hearing of our case?

seems like even if we win the lawsuit the peopleat uscis will go free and continue to repress more legal immigrants. the worst part is they are getting away with it.

we should not forget what they and DOL did to us EVER and see that it cannot happen again to anyone.

I wonder at night, how they manage to sleep.

 

[assur]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by cinta
assur,

1:I posted in this thread ten reasons for Citizenship, of whom only one is VOTING, which by itself is big. (www.ilw.com)
2: Some of the so called eight points or modifications, like AC-21, or even a backlog reduction plan will have to go through Congress. That is why the lawsuit was already distributed to some..Can we know which? So given the fact that Congress will be involved in one way or another, sooner or later, let us give them the whole picture..
3: As I mentioned earlier, we should address some remedy for past and current victims, not only future reforms.

Cinta
I do not deny the importance of Citizenship but I disagree that this forum could do anything by taking the opinions from the benefiaries who are suspended and their future is uncertain. Even they dont know about tomorrow's turns from employer, USCIS, lawyer and public as whole.
Those who have been going through this Backlog/Delay CAN only think about current situation and NOT the future policies. FOOD is important then anything else, if you alive you could be involved in other activities. Right now our dream is to get GC NOT citizenship. I wonder if any citizen is watching this forum, please reveal yourself, thanks.

 

[Kanadian]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by 140_takes_4ever
I don't think you should seperate the two. One of the main reasons for going after GC is to ultimately go for the citizenship. As compared to people who applied in 2000 and received their GC's within 8 months, others like us, have been waiting in some cases upto 24 months in the AOS stage alone.

We should be recompensated for our time, and shouldn't have to suffer thanks to the INS. Only way we can do that is to incorporate it in the current set of demands. Please realise that is all that we are doing demanding! It is not that INS has to accept everything we demand, and it is not that they will not negotiate.

This is our golden opportunity to put all our pent up concerns in one package and bring it to the INS for discussion. We all know AILA is a JOKE! Petitions are filed in the dustbin! This lawsuit is the first time that INS will be forced to reply to each and everyone of our demands and give reasons. We should put forth all our concerns and see where that takes us.

Trust Rajiv and his team to weed out the unnecessary and over ambitious demands, bring forth all your concerns. As you can see from the number of Rajiv's responses on this thread, he is taking an active interest and actually reading through all the pages of posts. So don't worry, if he thinks something is wrong he WILL let us know!

May be this the case for some of you but not mine. I really dont want to go for citizenship as I have Canadian.

 

[Pruma]

This is the best few words i heard in a long long time

If Rajiv is able to get us this settlement then it would be the best change ever happened.

I only hope this really happens.

I was really amazed at Rajiv understanding of these issues. May be i might vote for him if he runs for some office.

Good Luck to all of us.

 

[sreddy88]

Re: Suggestions..

Originally posted by assur
Preferences should be given and their cases should be expedited based on the following evidences:
- Age factor of the beneficiary (in 40s or over)
- Age factor of dependent children crossing/getting 18 years old
- Number of family members more than 4
- Exceptional incidents like death of parent/s, brother, sister etc.
- Continuouse stay over 5 years in US
- Labor Certification approval took more than 2 years
- Victom of any incident in US
- Exploited by employers

Hey! what do you think USCIS/US Govt is Factory management and We are part of workers union in the factory or What ?

C`mon , Be realistic in the current scenario of terrorism against US and Homeland Security Beef-up. What answer you have if citizens question govt that this kinda rules keeps their live at risk ?? Do you think you can defend yourself in the court against lawsuit. Who were those people attacked US ? They were all educated and came here as students. Did you forget ?

This Lawsuit negotiations will be critical and got to be dealth very carefully without giving a chance to question of Security breach issues. Of Course! Mr. Khanna know well about it and how to deal with it. We have to minimise the risk of leaving the country on job loss and live with PErmanent resident rights in this country as its USCIS inefficiency not being able to adjusticate cases in reasonable and fair time. thats should be the primary goal and the rest are secondary which gives lot support for EB category Applicants.

 

[PhillyJulyLC]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by 140_takes_4ever
Trust Rajiv and his team to weed out the unnecessary and over ambitious demands, bring forth all your concerns. As you can see from the number of Rajiv's responses on this thread, he is taking an active interest and actually reading through all the pages of posts. So don't worry, if he thinks something is wrong he WILL let us know!

Will you please Mr. Khanna?
This class action lawsuit involves so many people in different stages along their way to obtaining GC. I can imagien with the lawsuit going on, different interest groups within the "class" will be more apparent. Suppose CIS gives a counter-offer, it would be truely hard to get a concensus as to whether or not accept the offer. A settlement that are benifiary to some may not help some others much. I hope we won't have an "argument backlog" in here.
(And I am sorry if by chance I offended anyone. I really didn't mean to...)

 

[assur]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by 140_takes_4ever
I don't think you should seperate the two. One of the main reasons for going after GC is to ultimately go for the citizenship. As compared to people who applied in 2000 and received their GC's within 8 months, others like us, have been waiting in some cases upto 24 months in the AOS stage alone.

We should be recompensated for our time, and shouldn't have to suffer thanks to the INS. Only way we can do that is to incorporate it in the current set of demands. Please realise that is all that we are doing demanding! It is not that INS has to accept everything we demand, and it is not that they will not negotiate.

This is our golden opportunity to put all our pent up concerns in one package and bring it to the INS for discussion. We all know AILA is a JOKE! Petitions are filed in the dustbin! This lawsuit is the first time that INS will be forced to reply to each and everyone of our demands and give reasons. We should put forth all our concerns and see where that takes us.

Trust Rajiv and his team to weed out the unnecessary and over ambitious demands, bring forth all your concerns. As you can see from the number of Rajiv's responses on this thread, he is taking an active interest and actually reading through all the pages of posts. So don't worry, if he thinks something is wrong he WILL let us know!

My children want to be a professional first, that could only be possible by getting GC in the first instance. So, I am sorry to be harsh but I want to be a Subjective to get Fundamental Benefits which could help to take care of my family atleast.
I140 & I485 is the first step to acieve this.
Believe me if you get faster approvals for these cases there would be a direct impact on the citizenship backlog which will be positive. Think about it, it is a real justification by check and balance rule.

 

[sreddy88]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by assur
My children want to be a professional first, that could only be possible by getting GC in the first instance. So, I am sorry to be harsh but I want to be a Subjective to get Fundamental Benefits which could help to take care of my family atleast.
I140 & I485 is the first step to acieve this.
Believe me if you get faster approvals for these cases there would be a direct impact on the citizenship backlog which will be positive. Think about it, it is a real justification by check and balance rule.

You have to take one after another. No point even thinking about citizenship in the current scenario. We do not know we will be living in the country until we get GC. If we do thats great, we can think about whats ahead later.

Simple analogy: You/I don't think about Lunch OR Dinner after getting up morning. We will just think about Break fast. /* SORRY! If I offended you */

 

[slinky]

the more you ask, the more you get (still less that what you asked for)

Aim higher and we won't be disappointed with what we get (assuming we get something).

140, 485, "actual" GC, citizenship... we should cry foul for everything and we might get lucky with something. Just shooting for one specific task might leave us with nothing.

Yes, 485 might be the most important issue for us.. but down the lane (after few years), citizenship becomes "the issue". Let's target for everything.

 

[140_takes_4ever]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by Kanadian
May be this the case for some of you but not mine. I really dont want to go for citizenship as I have Canadian.

Good for you, but the majority of people here DON'T! Let's not let the lawsuit get into special interest litigation, citizenship is of valid concern to most people, and should be thought throughly before discarding it.

Originally posted by assur
So, I am sorry to be harsh but I want to be a Subjective to get Fundamental Benefits which could help to take care of my family atleast. I140 & I485 is the first step to acieve this.

I don't understand you nay sayers! All we are doing is demanding, it is not that we are going to get everything we demand for, but wouldn't it be a nice thing to get if we could? This is the FIRST time you actually have an opportunity to talk to INS and you don't want to discuss ALL your issues? What kind of logic is that?

Again, as I mentioned before Rajiv is reading these forums, and if he feels this idea is out of line, I am sure he will put his foot down.

Originally posted by sreddy88
Simple analogy: You/I don't think about Lunch OR Dinner after getting up morning. We will just think about Break fast. /* SORRY! If I affended you [/B]

To quote you another analogy, short sighted thinking like what you are suggesting is basically what bought Taliban to Afghanistan, to get the Russians out the US supported the religious fundamentalists, and horror of horrors it has come back to bite them. You have to think long term or you will have to face the same fights over and over again. Sorry if I have offended you, but thinking in the short term without long term goals in mind has never helped anyone!

 

[bloody_labor]

Why don't we prioritize the items?

Why don't we prioritize the items, as i said earlier?

Lets put togather everything we want and also prioritize the items.

High = FREEDOM/FOOD, Immediate Relief to people due to backlog delays (I140 & I485), Frustration of people due to exploitation from Employer (Job Change) and freedom of basic/fundamental rights and survival
Medium = Additional BENEFITS, Citizenship clock/issues, FP, EAD, AP
Low = Visa issues related to other countries, Right of Vote, Sponsership to other family members etc.

This is just thought from my side. I am sorry if i am hurting anybody on this forum.

 

[assur]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by sreddy88
You have to take one after another. No point even thinking about citizenship in the current scenario. We do not know we will be living in the country until we get GC. If we do thats great, we can think about whats ahead later.

Simple analogy: You/I don't think about Lunch OR Dinner after getting up morning. We will just think about Break fast. /* SORRY! If I offended you */

Second one is the matter of choice. The first one is the supportive, thats what is most important. Lot of GC holders still bear original citizenship that do not effects on their Supportive Behaviour.

 

[sreddy88]

So, Let's work towards primary goal .. securing a good job with good life as residents.... first.

 

[kashmir]

Citizenship - Re: Re: Thursday

Rajiv, Plaintiffs, Core Team Members are fighting and working hard for everyone including each member of this community.
We are not begging somebody's green card.

Some (or many) of us may not be interested in getting a U.S. Citizenship and think about only getting one's own green card sooner.
This is one of reasons why this community is so weak.
But there were a few people who were strongly committing to the United States.
Such people have been working hard to try solving EB I-485 processing delay for a long time.
This Lawsuit was born from these activities.
Without them, you don't see this Litigation.
We have been fighting even before 12/22/2003.
We should not ignore Citizenship.

So, we have to think about:
1) how to bring this issue to this Litigation, and
2) what exactly we should request to U.S. Government.

Originally posted by kashmir
Honestly speaking, this Citizenship Clock issue is one of the most important issues for me,
but I am not sure how we can bring it to this litigation and its settlement
nor if it is possible without amendment of Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

Of course, I believe Rajiv will do his best also on this issue,
but this litigation and its settlement cannot solve everything,
and at least we have to write what exactly we request to DHS/USCIS.

Concurrently, we should push this issue strongly to Congress in this election year.
This litigation may help us, but we have to act by ourselves.

 

[getmeout]

My 2 cents..

Very good job Rajiv. Thanks a lot for all your help.

In my view we should get minimum and maximum expectation determined in this case. It is always good to get the settlement. Because it might take years in court and justice delayed is denied.

Once we have minimum expectations full filled, we should settle it with the blessing of court. So that we can make sure their promises are full filled.

 

[cinta]

CITIZENSHIP

This is again what is all about:

1: Congress will get involved as it is their legislation, DHS ACT that is being violated, both in the processing of applications in six months and the reduction of Backlogs.
2: Congress is/should be aware of the recent GAO report explaining the US CIS failures (GAO-04-309R).
2: Congress and US CIS should also be aware of the recent Minessota judge decision about the ASYLEES. Yes, we support them but they still have to contribute to any fund including Taxes and SS. I hope Judge Robertson also reads the journals..

Given the above, it is easy to conclude that all we are asking is very logical and appropriate, including the Citizenship demands, if included. Let them (Congress, GAO, US CIS, DHS, DOJ) figure it out.

Citizenship: It has been severely affected due to the Backlogs of EB I-485 processing (and LC with I-140). This is a right to apply and not thrown upon Canadians and/or Mexicans, NAFTA, NACARA or any other nation. However, it is the only tool that truly will make somebody American and free. It will also show to these bureaucracts that we are PATRIOTS just like any other American. Not to mention again that the way the jobs are going, in a couple of years, you will need Citizenship to work in 75% of the jobs available. This about the bread and the butter on the table..And in a hypothetical scenario where a GC holder and a Citizen apply for the same job, the latter wins!

This could also be the only remedy that I could think of, given the past, present and the future times for the backlogs, reduction and litigation.

Lastly, let us remind ourselves about another famous Canadian who even after about 20-25 years he finally became Citizen. Peter Jennigs of ABC. He at the end realised something about jobs ...

 

[ECGC]

I strongly feel that we should not ignore the path to citizenship. GC is an immediate gratification but citizenship is what makes your voice heard in the society you live.I do not want that process to be prolonged more than 5 years after GC. As it is, I feel that the 5 year wait is too long.All we are asking Mr.Khanna is to ensure that the path to citizenship is not longer than what it already is because of this "conditional" GC- and that is not too much to ask.

I am sorry to rake this up again but I wanted Mr.Khanna to address this:
Since the primary excuse offered by BCIS as a reason for delay in processing pending 485s is lack of personnel, don't you think that this "conditional GC" followed by the actual GC will take up more resources and be detrimental in the long run? The same application will be looked at twice won't it? I agree that the 5 year time will eliminate the need for processing EAD/AP and therefore free up personnel but why don't we just ask for a 1 year processing of GC as a "reasonable" time frame.

If this question has already been asked and answered by you elsewhere, I apologize for wasting your time.Other members can please guide me there. I admit that I haven't read the whole thread.Time is short supply.

 

[assur]

Re: Citizenship - Re: Re: Thursday

Originally posted by kashmir
Rajiv, Plaintiffs, Core Team Members are fighting and working hard for everyone including each member of this community.
We are not begging somebody's green card.

Some (or many) of us may not be interested in getting a U.S. Citizenship and think about only getting one's own green card sooner.
This is one of reasons why this community is so weak.
But there were a few people who were strongly committing to the United States.
Such people have been working hard to try solving EB I-485 processing delay for a long time.
This Lawsuit was born from these activities.
Without them, you don't see this Litigation.
We have been fighting even before 12/22/2003.
We should not ignore Citizenship.

So, we have to think about:
1) how to bring this issue to this Litigation, and
2) what exactly we should request to U.S. Government.

You got it. I would suggest that a priority list of issues should be prepared in the order of importance, addressing, to eleborate the exact picture. This list could be posted and voted in 1 and 2 by forum participants. Results then can be used for arguments preparation and presentation onward.