Attorney conversation with USCIS regarding passport use

[comcast]

I have visited many countries using either a national passport or a U.S. issued travel document. The difference was night and day.

For most countries the passport created insane hassles; you were representating yourself as a citizen of a country that brutally violates human rights and is a source country for countless illegal migrants. In contrast an American document commands instant respect. It has the backing of one of the richest countries in the world. People will treat you differently. Not only immigration officers but even hotel clerks treat you differently.

 

[jjusa]

Majority of asylees want to be free & use their NP. Who wants to be tied to USCIS RTD or RP??? .

My church actively resettles refugees from abroad and with one or two exceptions refugees want to use an American document not a national passport that is not worth the paper they are printed on.

 

[usa2002]

Here is what happens: If you enter country X and then if you become really sick such that you can no longer help yourself (e.g, in a coma) or if there is a huge disaster like the Asian tsunami of 2004 where many foreign nationals need to be evacuated in a less than organized fashion, what do you think country X will do to you?

The likely answer is they will send you back to whichever country that issued you the travel document. So if you use a national passport you will be sent back to your supposed persecutors (does that concern anybody who is an asylee?). If you have a RTD or RP issued by this country you will returned to the lovely USA.

Last year I had to attend a conference in London and I had a conversation with the English visa staff in NYC about which document should be used. They answered my question by telling the above hypo. The essence of their answer is that if you genuinely have fears of persecution you are out of your mind to use your national passport.

 

[wantmygcnow]

My church actively resettles refugees from abroad and with one or two exceptions refugees want to use an American document not a national passport that is not worth the paper they are printed on.

interesting thing is..when we want a benefit the NP is crap but when we have the benefit..everyone wants to visit their COP?

Now how does that work? LOL. Didn't someone once said no matter what happens we will still remember where we came from?

And the funny part is U.S document may get respect overseas but if you go a U.S Embassy they will treat you like Crap..even entering with a RTD is treated with crap.

Now what do you want? Respected outside the united states with a RTD/RP or enter smoothly with a NP and forget the hassels of secondary? I would assume the latter.

 

[wantmygcnow]

Here is what happens: If you enter country X and then if you become really sick such that you can no longer help yourself (e.g, in a coma) or if there is a huge disaster like the Asian tsunami of 2004 where many foreign nationals need to be evacuated in a less than organized fashion, what do you think country X will do to you?

The likely answer is they will send you back to whichever country that issued you the travel document. So if you use a national passport you will be sent back to your supposed persecutors (does that concern anybody who is an asylee?). If you have a RTD or RP issued by this country you will returned to the lovely USA.

Last year I had to attend a conference in London and I had a conversation with the English visa staff in NYC about which document should be used. They answered my question by telling the above hypo. The essence of their answer is that if you genuinely have fears of persecution you are out of your mind to use your national passport.

SOrry to bust your bubble but during the Lebanon/ISrael war few years ago..the PR's were not evacuated before..or even any asylees. ONly U.S Citizens.

Why don't you try to lose your document and go to an embassy overseas and see what they say. They will act like they don't even know you.

 

[asyleedec2006]

WHat shall I do then?

Hey guys I am getting all worried about this disscusion. I am going to Germany and SPAIN in Nov,. and I was intending on only using the RTD to enter Germany and bring my NP just as proof of where I am from I know we dont need a visa for Germany but I heard that for Spain maybe. ( aim not politically persecuted in my country of origin) As we all said before all asylum cases are different and ironically I was asked 3 times by an IO entering back from Canada she was asking me why I didn't have my NP with me. She said I could use it aswell to enter other countries. And the RTD was my WAY TO GET INTO THE US. She said that because I had a NP before applying for Asylum I could still use it for traveling to other countries and I wouldn't have a problem to return to the US as long as I have a valid RTD she said all it matter is that did not go back to COP or have an Expired RTD.

Another funny Factor. I went to the spanish consulate in SF and I was asking for a Schengen VISA. on my RTD (so I dont have to USE NP) then she saw I was from MEX and she said there was no way she was going to issue a Visa to a MExican because I didn't need one she told me to go to spain with my RTD and my NP from Mexico (she knew my NP is still valid as USCIS knew also when I applied for asylum) so

What do we do? Who do we believe?

I am thinkin on taking both documents and just showing RTD in Germany and in the case that they give me a hard time when they want me to show my nationality then I will show the NP for IDentification purposes only.


Had any of you got into another country with their NP and get back in the US with the VALID RTD????????

how easy is that???

PLEASE ADVICE

 

[NYcancerian]

Ummm...interesting discussion,please keep the views coming!

I'm learning a lot from all these posts.

 

[usa2002]

Why don't you try to lose your document and go to an embassy overseas and see what they say. They will act like they don't even know you.

No worries, this already happened to me in Russia (losing a RP to armed robbers on a crowded street of Moscow). And contrary to your ill-informed and ignorant hints, our Foreign Service officers take good care of asylees with U.S. documentation (probably not as good as they take care of American citizens, but the way they treat you is 1000 times better than the way "diplomats" from your country of origin will treat you (especially if they find out that you "honored" your country by applying for asylum.)

 

[usa2002]

SOrry to bust your bubble but during the Lebanon/ISrael war few years ago..the PR's were not evacuated before..or even any asylees. ONly U.S Citizens.

Why don't you try to lose your document and go to an embassy overseas and see what they say. They will act like they don't even know you.

Once again you are WRONG.

A Harvard medical student on an exchange program who had a RP was evacuated from Lebanon courtesy of the United States government (had a lower priority than citizens but was still attended to).

The war was last year, not "a few years ago" (another factual error in your post).

In 2004 a staff member at the University of Southern California was stranded by the tsunami and the emergency Foreign Service teams sent by the State Department to the zone of disaster assisted in that person's return to Los Angeles (after seeing her Refugee Travel Document).

 

[thankful]

Once again you are WRONG.

A Harvard medical student on an exchange program who had a RP was evacuated from Lebanon courtesy of the United States government (had a lower priority than citizens but was still attended to).

The war was last year, not "a few years ago" (another factual error in your post).

In 2004 a staff member at the University of Southern California was stranded by the tsunami and the emergency Foreign Service teams sent by the State Department to the zone of disaster assisted in that person's return to Los Angeles (after seeing her Refugee Travel Document).

The State Department has NO legal obligations to assist non American citizens. At an AILA conference two years ago a State Department person discussed this issue at length. The general U.S. policy is to refer that person to the diplomatic post of the country of his nationality. However the State Department recognizes that in cases of refugees this is not acceptable. So "to the extent they are able to" they do offer assistance. The official listed examples where such help was provided.

A major deterrent against using national passport indeed should be that if anything unfortunate happens your host country will contact your persecuting government.

 

[Punjabi_Munda]

Who are we kidding here?

Come on Guys, we have all been through our immigration journey and we should have learnt by now that USCIS has the mentality of a dictator. I honestly believe that even after you get your GC, they still want you to live in a constant fear. What do I mean by that? look at any category of GC.

If you have a GC based on your employment, you have a gray area where you don't how long you still have to remain with the employer. Sometimes those employers exploit you by not paying you enough and what not and what not.

If you have a GC based on your marriage, a genuine marriage, you'll still be questioned like a criminal by I/O. God knows you both have to know what color and size the underwear your spouse wears. How many times do you have sex per week and blah blah blah. If your statement don't match, you are in deep doo doo. Even after you get your GC, sometimes you can get exploited by your spouse. Things don't workout between the two of you, now you have another fear, what would happen if I divorce or separate from my spouse.

Having GC based on Asylum, that's a sin too because of the very same issues we are discussing, and the list goes on......

My take is that we should be able to renew our NPs. If USCIS has a problem with that they need to address the issues about the emergency travel where we can't wait six months to travel. They need to educate the POE officers not to embarass people who are travelling with RTD by unnecessary questions. I know the idea of secondary room for questioning asylees if they are travelling on RTD to see if they are still eligible for asylum but PRs travelling on RTDs shouldn't be sent to the secondary inspection room. And what about confiscating RTDs from PRs? That is really a classic.

Well, the point I'm trying to make here is if your asylum case is not even against the government, what harm could it do if you renew your passport? I have renewed my passport and if asked at the citizenship interview, I'll simply state the truth. Nowhere, during my asylum process anyone told me that I have given up my citizenship. It will happen at the time when I'll take the Oath to become a US citizen. Even at that point US normally doesn't care if you still keep your previous citizenship.

 

[miami2002]

When I was an asylee only using a RTD going to secondary was routine. But after getting my GC I showed the officers my GC and I was never sent to any secondary. I find the use of RTD to be very convenient. The drawback is that sometime it takes a while to get it from NSC (but they do rush the process if you give them a good excuse).

Ports entry are in Florida and New York.

 

[miami2002]

Well, the point I'm trying to make here is if your asylum case is not even against the government, what harm could it do if you renew your passport?

Correct.

But if the asylum case WAS against your government, then renewing your passport is a different story.

 

[miami2002]

As far as the USCIS is concerned, GC is the only document you need to enter the United States, right?

 

[wantmygcnow]

No worries, this already happened to me in Russia (losing a RP to armed robbers on a crowded street of Moscow). And contrary to your ill-informed and ignorant hints, our Foreign Service officers take good care of asylees with U.S. documentation (probably not as good as they take care of American citizens, but the way they treat you is 1000 times better than the way "diplomats" from your country of origin will treat you (especially if they find out that you "honored" your country by applying for asylum.)

Really. Please post what they did for you so we can document it. Did they issue you a new RP On the spot? Please tell us what really happened instead of giving vague hints of "they really helped me"...u mean they fed you some tea?? Or Russian Vodka??

I will then email the embassy in Russia and ask them what will they do for me if I lose a RP or RTD..and I will post it here.

 

[usa2002]

Really. Please post what they did for you so we can document it. Did they issue you a new RP On the spot? Please tell us what really happened instead of giving vague hints of "they really helped me"...u mean they fed you some tea?? Or Russian Vodka??

I will then email the embassy in Russia and ask them what will they do for me if I lose a RP or RTD..and I will post it here.

What I failed to realize was your hostility toward the very government which extended you protection. What is your problem with the US government?

THe American embassy in Moscow confirmed my identity and then contacted the DHS office in Rome, Italy. The embassy then issued a letter (called the "Transportation Letter") which allowed me to board an airplane and return to the United States.

I know it is different in your old country (or my old country), but government employees of the United States follow established rules/procedures and they serve us to the best extent of their ability.

Now tell me what your country's embassy would do if you showed up and told them that "I am an asylee but I lost my passport can you help me?"

 

[vdostoi1]

Come on Guys, we have all been through our immigration journey and we should have learnt by now that USCIS has the mentality of a dictator. I honestly believe that even after you get your GC, they still want you to live in a constant fear. What do I mean by that? look at any category of GC.

If you have a GC based on your employment, you have a gray area where you don't how long you still have to remain with the employer. Sometimes those employers exploit you by not paying you enough and what not and what not.

If you have a GC based on your marriage, a genuine marriage, you'll still be questioned like a criminal by I/O. God knows you both have to know what color and size the underwear your spouse wears. How many times do you have sex per week and blah blah blah. If your statement don't match, you are in deep doo doo. Even after you get your GC, sometimes you can get exploited by your spouse. Things don't workout between the two of you, now you have another fear, what would happen if I divorce or separate from my spouse.

Having GC based on Asylum, that's a sin too because of the very same issues we are discussing, and the list goes on......

My take is that we should be able to renew our NPs. If USCIS has a problem with that they need to address the issues about the emergency travel where we can't wait six months to travel. They need to educate the POE officers not to embarass people who are travelling with RTD by unnecessary questions. I know the idea of secondary room for questioning asylees if they are travelling on RTD to see if they are still eligible for asylum but PRs travelling on RTDs shouldn't be sent to the secondary inspection room. And what about confiscating RTDs from PRs? That is really a classic.

Well, the point I'm trying to make here is if your asylum case is not even against the government, what harm could it do if you renew your passport? I have renewed my passport and if asked at the citizenship interview, I'll simply state the truth. Nowhere, during my asylum process anyone told me that I have given up my citizenship. It will happen at the time when I'll take the Oath to become a US citizen. Even at that point US normally doesn't care if you still keep your previous citizenship.

I want to try and chime in and provide my two cents to this discussion as well. Every single case is different with USCIS. Everyone has different circumstances. It is the intention of all the people who post on this discussion board to eventually become US citizens. Yes, there are gray areas once you obtain your GC. Do I renew my passport or no? Do I stay at my job for six months or one year or two years after I receive my GC based on employment or no? I believe that the most important thing is to be honest with yourself and with USCIS if the question ever comes up. At interviews with IOs, provide only the most basic information, show only relevant documents, and only answer the questions asked. Do not hide anything but do not reveal additional details that may spark other questions.

I am also worried about my situation whenever I will apply for Naturalization. I don't know if anyone else is in my situation, but I received my asylum based on an I-730 petition that my mother filed and then I had to go through the nunc pro tunc process. My I-730 was approved in May of 1999 and I had obtained a new passport from my mother's COP just prior to my approval. I don't use my passport but that is my personal choice. Would I use it to go back if my sister who lives in my mother's COP and is ill would need my help? Sure I would. I don't think USCIS is not compassionate when it comes to needing to help your family.

So the bottom line is: if you did renew your passport for the right reasons instead of because you wanted to go vacation to your COP, I am sure they will be understanding of your situation.

I know I probably said a whole lot of nothing, but I wanted to chime on on this.

 

[wantmygcnow]

What I failed to realize was your hostility toward the very government which extended you protection. What is your problem with the US government?

THe American embassy in Moscow confirmed my identity and then contacted the DHS office in Rome, Italy. The embassy then issued a letter (called the "Transportation Letter") which allowed me to board an airplane and return to the United States.

I know it is different in your old country (or my old country), but government employees of the United States follow established rules/procedures and they serve us to the best extent of their ability.

Now tell me what your country's embassy would do if you showed up and told them that "I am an asylee but I lost my passport can you help me?"

I know of transportation letters. They are normally issued to people who lose their GCs but my question to you was you said RP was lost...Did the airline let you board without a passport?

 

[usa2002]

I know of transportation letters. They are normally issued to people who lose their GCs but my question to you was you said RP was lost...Did the airline let you board without a passport?

Yes they did. Why would an airline care about a passport anyhow? A passport from a poor, undeveloped country? They are concerned about your ability to enter the United States (an airline will be fined if they transport someone who is denied entry). Your passport (unless there is a visa on the passport) from your country does not tell them a darn thing about your right to enter the United States whereas the Transportation Letter represents a judgment on the part of the U.S. that you are entitled to be admitted.

 

[usa2002]

Actually I was worried about my lack of a travel document (I did not know as much about these rules as I do now) and at my insistence the embassy issued another letter just saying that this person did not need a passport to enter the United States. The airline did not ask for a passport and the second letter was not used.

Before my scheduled depature time, the U.S. embassy staff called me on my cell to make sure I did clear Russian immigration. The embassy was exceedingly helpful and cordial.