Applying for Citizenship and not willing to bear arms

G

GC-IS-A-DREAM

Registered Users (C)
Hi,

There is a question on N-400 form that states that "Are you willing to bear arms for US if law were to require".

Can you say no to that question?? If you can what documents do you have to provide?

Also if you have said can you change your answer to it?? How will this impact your natiralization process?

Thanks Much for your answers
 
GC-IS-A-DREAM said:
Hi,

There is a question on N-400 form that states that "Are you willing to bear arms for US if law were to require".

Can you say no to that question?? If you can what documents do you have to provide?
Click to expand...

If you provide sufficient evidence that your religious beliefs prevent you from bearing arms for the US, then you would answer "NO". This question is directly tied into the oath of allegiance, which requires to you bear arms unless you can prove that your religious beliefs prevent you from doing so.
 
sarrebal said:
Why complicate your life?
Just say yes. Nobody will force you to do it anyways.
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By answering YES, you are potentially affirming yourself to the sworn oath which requires you to bear arms if the law would ever require it. It's not just a matter of answering YES and think nothing will come of it.
 
Bobsmyth said:
By answering YES, you are potentially affirming yourself to the sworn oath which requires you to bear arms if the law would ever require it. It's not just a matter of answering YES and think nothing will come of it.
Click to expand...

Can one changed mind after becoming a citizen and then claim Contiencitious Objector's status later?
 
WBH said:
Can one changed mind after becoming a citizen and then claim Contiencitious Objector's status later?
Click to expand...

I would assume a naturalized citizen can later claim contentious objector status, but it would only apply to combatant services.
 
GC-IS-A-DREAM said:
Hi,

There is a question on N-400 form that states that "Are you willing to bear arms for US if law were to require".

Can you say no to that question?? If you can what documents do you have to provide?

Also if you have said can you change your answer to it?? How will this impact your natiralization process?

Thanks Much for your answers
Click to expand...

I have sussessfully done this; please see my earlier post and also references therein:

http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=2069355#post2069355
 
WBH said:
Can one say "I will not bear arms to fight with my birth country but I am willing to fight other countries."?
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No, the rules are pretty clear. You can omit certain parts of the oath if approved, but you cannot modify it. The omission must also be based on opposition to any war and must be based on religious beliefs, which include non-religious sincerely held moral and ethical beliefs.

Your scenario fails that test; in fact, there have been court decisions that deny citizenship to applicants who wanted to modify the oath along your lines of argument.
 
Can you send a letter saying that you have changed your mind with reasons for change clearly stated are willing to bear arms and hence willing to take full oat......
If yes what is the process for that...
 
GC-IS-A-DREAM said:
Can you send a letter saying that you have changed your mind with reasons for change clearly stated are willing to bear arms and hence willing to take full oat......
If yes what is the process for that...
Click to expand...

You may be able to just change this during the interview. If you send in a letter now, there is a good chance that the IO will not see it until the interview or that it may not even make it into your A-file. In my case, I had sent documentation with the application, and the IO "stumbled" across the issue when she was going over the N-400.

Just curious, did you request a modified oath in a version that would not be accepted?
 
well in my case it is too late now. I had my interview and they asked why i was not willing to bear arms and now they have asked to submit letter from my temple. I am not sure what to do next.

My temple has not done this before and are not aware of the process. I don't know what should be the format and language of the letter. what other proof will i need to convince them of my belief and faith.

natur08 said:
You may be able to just change this during the interview. If you send in a letter now, there is a good chance that the IO will not see it until the interview or that it may not even make it into your A-file. In my case, I had sent documentation with the application, and the IO "stumbled" across the issue when she was going over the N-400.

Just curious, did you request a modified oath in a version that would not be accepted?
Click to expand...
 
WBH said:
Can one say "I will not bear arms to fight with my birth country but I am willing to fight other countries."?
Click to expand...

Here's the first sentence of the Oath of Allegiance: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen".

Refusing to bear arms against one's birth country goes directly against that statement by implying that the oath taker does not renounce allegiance to his country of birth.
 
GC-IS-A-DREAM said:
well in my case it is too late now. I had my interview and they asked why i was not willing to bear arms and now they have asked to submit letter from my temple. I am not sure what to do next.

My temple has not done this before and are not aware of the process. I don't know what should be the format and language of the letter. what other proof will i need to convince them of my belief and faith.
Click to expand...

It's just needs to be a simple letter indicating that you are a member of the temple and your faith prevents you from bearing arms.
 
GC-IS-A-DREAM said:
well in my case it is too late now. I had my interview and they asked why i was not willing to bear arms and now they have asked to submit letter from my temple. I am not sure what to do next.

My temple has not done this before and are not aware of the process. I don't know what should be the format and language of the letter. what other proof will i need to convince them of my belief and faith.
Click to expand...

The letter should touch on three things. Here is a (reformatted) quote from the Adjudicator's Field Manual, Interpretation 337.2 Obligations of the oath:

To qualify for the exemption from the promises to bear arms and to perform noncombatant service, a petitioner must show each of the following;

(1) that he is "opposed to any type of service";
(2) that his objection is grounded in religious principles, as construed by the Supreme Court in Welsh v. U.S. , 398 U.S. 333 (1970), and U.S. v. Seeger , 280 U.S. 163 (1965); and
(3) that his beliefs are sincere, meaningful, and deeply held.
The three tests are cumulative and each must be satisfied.


Since the USCIS will try to check off these three boxes, you could make it easier for them if your temple could explicitly address them. I hope you have not said anything in the interview that contradicts any of these three principles. For example, only not willing to go to war against your home country would not satisfy (1).
 
thanks...I did not say anything in the interview. All I said was due to religious beliefs I am not willing to bear arms. But am not opposed to doing any other work of national importance under military or civilian supervision.

natur08 said:
The letter should touch on three things. Here is a (reformatted) quote from the Adjudicator's Field Manual, Interpretation 337.2 Obligations of the oath:

To qualify for the exemption from the promises to bear arms and to perform noncombatant service, a petitioner must show each of the following;

(1) that he is "opposed to any type of service";
(2) that his objection is grounded in religious principles, as construed by the Supreme Court in Welsh v. U.S. , 398 U.S. 333 (1970), and U.S. v. Seeger , 280 U.S. 163 (1965); and
(3) that his beliefs are sincere, meaningful, and deeply held.
The three tests are cumulative and each must be satisfied.


Since the USCIS will try to check off these three boxes, you could make it easier for them if your temple could explicitly address them. I hope you have not said anything in the interview that contradicts any of these three principles. For example, only not willing to go to war against your home country would not satisfy (1).
Click to expand...
 
Secular and anti-war

My opposition is sincere, deeply held and I can compile a list of anti-war actions I have taken both here as well as in my country of birth. SO it is very clear that I oppose all war and that I would not bear arms for any country.

My religion has many texts and many interpretations. Furthermore one does not become a "member" of a temple though one may have a regular association with a temple or several temples. Possibly one could consider this membership. I can reasonably say that my objection is aligned with religious principles against violence.

However, in my heart, my objection is moral, ethical, political, and fundamentally pacifist. It really does not have much to do with religion. I do not believe in bearing arms or in violence as a means for resolving conflict. I can request pacifist groups I have associated with to vouch for my participation in vigils and rallies.

Is it possible to document this from a secular standpoint or must one summon religious authority to back up the claim?
 
Pippi said:
My opposition is sincere, deeply held and I can compile a list of anti-war actions I have taken both here as well as in my country of birth. SO it is very clear that I oppose all war and that I would not bear arms for any country.

My religion has many texts and many interpretations. Furthermore one does not become a "member" of a temple though one may have a regular association with a temple or several temples. Possibly one could consider this membership. I can reasonably say that my objection is aligned with religious principles against violence.

However, in my heart, my objection is moral, ethical, political, and fundamentally pacifist. It really does not have much to do with religion. I do not believe in bearing arms or in violence as a means for resolving conflict. I can request pacifist groups I have associated with to vouch for my participation in vigils and rallies.

Is it possible to document this from a secular standpoint or must one summon religious authority to back up the claim?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is possible. See my earlier post:

http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=2069355#post2069355
 
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