Anyone with a lawsuit against USCIS or thinking about a lawsuit (Merged)

[paz1960]

Fairfax VA. Interview cleared. Stuck in name check.
Debating PRO SE v/s lawyer. The lawyer I talked to cited Danilov case and said dont do 1447b as I can't win if it goes to court. I'm ready to take my chances. Some people say that if you reach trial stage, hire an attorney.

One question to you, did you visit the district court to get the PRO SE package ? is it available online to download ?

thanks.

Some courts have on their web page a Pro Se handbook posted. I found one of the best resources the Pro Se handbook from the Northern District of California (I am in Michigan). You will need to study also the Local Rules of your district court.

I know one more case (from Ohio) where the judge followed Danilov v. Aguirre and I can list probably about 20 other decisions where Danilov was not followed. If you decide to go Pro Se, you will need to dedicate a lot of time to study similar cases, postings on this forum, etc. There are several former members of this forum, who managed to do the whole process without a lawyer even in the trial stage and won. It's not an easy decision, I admit, but the sooner you make up your mind, is better because you will reach a resolution and you will be able to put this whole unfortunate case behind you and go ahead with your life.

 

[paz1960]

Chicago
Priority Date 2/10/2006
Interview Date 6/8 and passed , only thing to wait is name/background check

infopass on 10/4: I was told that background check was completed on 9/14/2006.

infopass on 11/17:
Today I was told my file was moved to "to-be-processed" category from "waiting for background check" category on 10/20/2006..
And confirmed that background check was completed on 9/14/2006

infopass on 12/1/2006:
I was told by a different officer: background check WAS NOT completed !
My case is pending, dont know how long it will take...


On 12/4, I filed civil case based on 1447(b)

Any one, Any thoughts ?

Well, so far the score is 2:1 that your background check is completed. Looks that from infopass appointments you won't be able to find out the truth and even if you would find it out, still no other way to make USCIS to adjudicate your application. So, in my opinion, you did the right thing that you filed your lawsuit based on 1447(b).

If the background check is complete, the only thing remains to convince the judge that the 120 day begun when they interviewed you and not when USCIS decides that the "examination" in Danilov's interpretation is over.

If the background check is not complete, you have a good chance that with the lawsuit they will start moving and complete it.

AUSA will be able to find out more reliably if the background check is really done or not. Work with him/her closely.

I believe that your case will be adjudicated really fast, if the background check is really done.

 

[anotheronestuck]

Question about oath while 1447 b pending with court

This is a great place and thanks to people who started and those who contribute. I am around a month into 60 day time to defendnts to answer the summens and have received a letter from USCIS saying to appear to Oath Ceremony on 12/12/06.
The question is do I have to do anything with 1447b in the court before going for the Oath?
Thank you for your help. I will post the details in a couple of days.

 

[wenlock]

Oath

This is a great place and thanks to people who started and those who contribute. I am around a month into 60 day time to defendnts to answer the summens and have received a letter from USCIS saying to appear to Oath Ceremony on 12/12/06.
The question is do I have to do anything with 1447b in the court before going for the Oath?
Thank you for your help. I will post the details in a couple of days.

I would go to oath and after cermony file motion to dismiss with court as they adjudicated your application and case can be dismissed as moot.

 

[wenlock]

Number of Cases

I looked on Pacer for Fourth District courts. Total number of cases filed since Jan 1st 2006 till Dec 1st 2006 for 890 and 540 codes with Micheal Chertoff as defendent was around 150 cases.

Based on this assesment I do not see probabaly more then 1500 cases nation wide against USCIS. Most number of cases that I see are in Fourth and Ninth circuit courts.

Based on the fact 180,000 people still stuck in name check 1500 - 2000 cases in court during this year so far is not a huge number of cases.

what do you guys think ?

 

[huxf]

ask again. please help. Thanks.

Thanks guys. I am getting ready to fight after seeing one more victory in my local district. But I got some questions. If you can give me some hints, I would very appreciate.
1) as my understanding, PRO SE can not be used with multiple plaintiffs. But the case, which did win, is a PRO SE case with two plaintiffs. Does that mean my local district has no objection to PRO SE with multiple plaintiffs?

2) If I am the only plaintiff fin the PRO SE, can I request reliefs (approvals) for both my wife and myself?

3) If I am the only plaintiff fin the PRO SE and win, is the CIS going to be very picky on my wife's case?

Thank you very much, guys.

 

[tomshen99a]

Go for it

You won't lose anything, filing 1447b pro se costs you $350 and 40 hours only. Get your pro se package in your district court. In chicago, district court has pro se help desk for people who wants to file pro se civil case.
Good Luck
Keep your spirit up and dont lose your sleep.. It is not worth it.

Fairfax VA. Interview cleared. Stuck in name check.
Debating PRO SE v/s lawyer. The lawyer I talked to cited Danilov case and said dont do 1447b as I can't win if it goes to court. I'm ready to take my chances. Some people say that if you reach trial stage, hire an attorney.

One question to you, did you visit the district court to get the PRO SE package ? is it available online to download ?

thanks.

 

[tomshen99a]

Thanks for your information. ONE Question ?

Thanks for your information. ONE question ?
Do you have the number to file civial case against CHERTOFF in Northern District of Illinois ? Your information will be greatly appreciated.

I looked on Pacer for Fourth District courts. Total number of cases filed since Jan 1st 2006 till Dec 1st 2006 for 890 and 540 codes with Micheal Chertoff as defendent was around 150 cases.

Based on this assesment I do not see probabaly more then 1500 cases nation wide against USCIS. Most number of cases that I see are in Fourth and Ninth circuit courts.

Based on the fact 180,000 people still stuck in name check 1500 - 2000 cases in court during this year so far is not a huge number of cases.

what do you guys think ?

 

[junzhe]

thanks paz1960

paz1960,
Thank you very much. The attachment is very helpful.

1. There are different local rules; in some districts they want you to prepare only one summons and send copies to all the defendants. In my district I had to prepare separate summonses, just as you described. You don't have to put the name of the US Attorney of your district, it is enough to put "US Attorney's Office, Civil Process Clerk; for the district of..." You don't have to serve the USA's office in person, you can mail them the complaint + summons like to the defendants.
2. For the Certificate of Service see a model attached to this post.

 

[PendingN400]

I would go to oath and after cermony file motion to dismiss with court as they adjudicated your application and case can be dismissed as moot.

This is what I intend to do. The US A was kind enough to even recommend doing this - so this issue of dismissal or remand back to CIS depends from court to court. I have seen some cases where US A is demanding either remand or dismissal before they will issue notice of oath and others just don't seek to care. The issue becomes moot in any case.

 

[Madison04]

Thanks guys. I am getting ready to fight after seeing one more victory in my local district. But I got some questions. If you can give me some hints, I would very appreciate.
1) as my understanding, PRO SE can not be used with multiple plaintiffs. But the case, which did win, is a PRO SE case with two plaintiffs. Does that mean my local district has no objection to PRO SE with multiple plaintiffs?

2) If I am the only plaintiff fin the PRO SE, can I request reliefs (approvals) for both my wife and myself?

3) If I am the only plaintiff fin the PRO SE and win, is the CIS going to be very picky on my wife's case?

Thank you very much, guys.

(1) Yes, pro se cases cannot be used with multiple plaintiffs. At least this is true for the majority of cases. One or two guys in this thread did claim that they filed pro se cases with multiple plaintiffs. I guess either their courts are more flexible on this, or they never reached the Motion to Dismiss stage, so no one really picked on this illegality. There is another senario: The husband and wife each filed their own pro se, but the court ordered to combine their two cases into one, which makes it look like a multiple plaintiff case. I saw one of these in my district court.

(2) No, you can only ask relief for yourself since your spouse is not a party of the lawsuit.

(3) This is the tricky part. No one can really say for sure. In my case, USCIS did show signs of retaliation by conducting a 2nd round, more thorough review of my wife's application after her NC was cleared by FBI, which led to a denial before they reverted the decision. I guess it's a relatively small risk that you just have to take.

Good luck!

 

[s66v]

Pro Se package

I called the clerk and he said that they don't have a PRO SE package anymore.
Does anyone have electronic copy of PRO SE package for VA eastern district 4th Circuit court ? The clerk said that I should go to their website and download individual forms instead of looking for a PRO SE package. I'm lost as to which forms to download. I know I need the following forms:
--Civil Cover sheet JS44,
--Summons in civil action AO440 or third party summons AO441 ?
What else is missing ?

It's getting complicated at the first step itself Anyone know of a good lawyer in VA ?

 

[paz1960]

(1) Yes, pro se cases cannot be used with multiple plaintiffs. At least this is true for the majority of cases. One or two guys in this thread did claim that they filed pro se cases with multiple plaintiffs. I guess either their courts are more flexible on this, or they never reached the Motion to Dismiss stage, so no one really picked on this illegality. There is another senario: The husband and wife each filed their own pro se, but the court ordered to combine their two cases into one, which makes it look like a multiple plaintiff case. I saw one of these in my district court.

(2) No, you can only ask relief for yourself since your spouse is not a party of the lawsuit.

(3) This is the tricky part. No one can really say for sure. In my case, USCIS did show signs of retaliation by conducting a 2nd round, more thorough review of my wife's application after her NC was cleared by FBI, which led to a denial before they reverted the decision. I guess it's a relatively small risk that you just have to take.

Good luck!

I totally agree with Madison04 and I'm really glad that he is still around willing to share his experience. I was kind of hoping that he or somebody who has first hand expereinece with husband&wife Pro Se case will pitch in. From what I saw on the forum all his statements are correct.

 

[paz1960]

I looked on Pacer for Fourth District courts. Total number of cases filed since Jan 1st 2006 till Dec 1st 2006 for 890 and 540 codes with Micheal Chertoff as defendent was around 150 cases.

Based on this assesment I do not see probabaly more then 1500 cases nation wide against USCIS. Most number of cases that I see are in Fourth and Ninth circuit courts.

Based on the fact 180,000 people still stuck in name check 1500 - 2000 cases in court during this year so far is not a huge number of cases.

what do you guys think ?

If this assessment is correct, (I saw greatly varying numbers about the pending name checks. The smallest was quoted in my congressman's answer to my letter asking help: he stated that there are about 8900 cases stuck, which seems to me unrealistically low) looks that only about ~1% of these people are desperate enough to do this extra step of sueing USCIS.

Interesting... This may be good and bad. Good, because imagine what would happen if all these 180,000 people would file lawsuits: probably we would be stuck now in the court system forever. Bad, because imagine what would happen if all these 180,000 people would file lawsuits: the government finally would be forced to take some drastic measures to reduce the backlog.

It may seem selfish and not nice at all, but I don't want to be a Don Quijote fighting windmills and try to fix the whole system. I just want my case finished and have this whole unfortunate case behind me, to be able to go ahead with my life.

 

[springbranch]

I am waiting my turn.

I looked on Pacer for Fourth District courts. Total number of cases filed since Jan 1st 2006 till Dec 1st 2006 for 890 and 540 codes with Micheal Chertoff as defendent was around 150 cases.

Based on this assesment I do not see probabaly more then 1500 cases nation wide against USCIS. Most number of cases that I see are in Fourth and Ninth circuit courts.

Based on the fact 180,000 people still stuck in name check 1500 - 2000 cases in court during this year so far is not a huge number of cases.

what do you guys think ?

I can speak for myself. As soon as my case is 1.5 year old I am at the Harris County courthouse's doorsteps. Until then, as I have been instructed by my lawyer and posts of this bulletin board, there is nothing I can do unfortunetly. But closely reading your posts. Your experience will shed some light on the outcome of the limited options we have.

By the way, where are fourth and nineth circuit courts?

 

[paz1960]

I called the clerk and he said that they don't have a PRO SE package anymore.
Does anyone have electronic copy of PRO SE package for VA eastern district 4th Circuit court ? The clerk said that I should go to their website and download individual forms instead of looking for a PRO SE package. I'm lost as to which forms to download. I know I need the following forms:
--Civil Cover sheet JS44,
--Summons in civil action AO440 or third party summons AO441 ?
What else is missing ?

It's getting complicated at the first step itself Anyone know of a good lawyer in VA ?

You will need, of course to strictly comply with the local rules of your district court but I don't think that the local rules differ drastically; they all follow more or less the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (these are all federal district courts). I don't have an Eastern District of Virginia Pro Se package, but I can send you my favorite resource, the Nothern California District Pro Se handbook (It was posted several times on this forum).

When you file your lawsuit, you will need exactly the documents you listed: civil cover sheet, summonses and copies of your complaint. Even if there is no Pro Se package available in your district, there should be posted the local rules, where all the details are described. These should be the same no matter that you are filing Pro Se or with a lawyer (with some small exceptions, e.g., a lawyer in my district is required to file everything electronically, the Pro Se Plaintiff only in paper)

 

[paz1960]

By the way, where are fourth and nineth circuit courts?

The 4th and 9th circuit courts are part of the US Circuit Court of Appeals system. The federal courts are organized in 3 levels. You start your lawsuit in the district court where you reside. If you are not happy with the decision of the district court, you can appeal it at one level higher: the circuit court where your district belongs. And the last level of appeal (suppose that you are still unhappy with the decision of the circuit court) is the US Supreme Court.

You can find the division of the country's federal judiciary at http://www.uscourts.gov/courtlinks/

 

[paz1960]

This is a great place and thanks to people who started and those who contribute. I am around a month into 60 day time to defendnts to answer the summens and have received a letter from USCIS saying to appear to Oath Ceremony on 12/12/06.
The question is do I have to do anything with 1447b in the court before going for the Oath?
Thank you for your help. I will post the details in a couple of days.

Strictly speaking, as soon as you filed your complaint based on 1447(b), USCIS lost jurisdiction and they could not adjudicate your application. But as PendingN400 noticed, the standards seems that are not uniform across the country, or at least are not interpreted in the same way, or are not enforced in the same way. So I definitely would not argue that they can't issue me an oath letter and I want first the court dismiss or remand my case. I agree with wenlock and PendingN400: go to your oath ceremony and dismiss the case as moot after that. BTW, congratulation for your victory!

 

[huxf]

Thank you very much, Madison04. Your answers greatly clarify my understandings. I really appreciate it.
So what is your suggestion? file PRO SE together with my wife, or file just by myself?

More husband/wife PRO SE expereinces here?

(1) Yes, pro se cases cannot be used with multiple plaintiffs. At least this is true for the majority of cases. One or two guys in this thread did claim that they filed pro se cases with multiple plaintiffs. I guess either their courts are more flexible on this, or they never reached the Motion to Dismiss stage, so no one really picked on this illegality. There is another senario: The husband and wife each filed their own pro se, but the court ordered to combine their two cases into one, which makes it look like a multiple plaintiff case. I saw one of these in my district court.

(2) No, you can only ask relief for yourself since your spouse is not a party of the lawsuit.

(3) This is the tricky part. No one can really say for sure. In my case, USCIS did show signs of retaliation by conducting a 2nd round, more thorough review of my wife's application after her NC was cleared by FBI, which led to a denial before they reverted the decision. I guess it's a relatively small risk that you just have to take.

Good luck!

 

[wenlock]

Factors in determining Jurisdiction

Strictly speaking, as soon as you filed your complaint based on 1447(b), USCIS lost jurisdiction and they could not adjudicate your application. But as PendingN400 noticed, the standards seems that are not uniform across the country, or at least are not interpreted in the same way, or are not enforced in the same way. So I definitely would not argue that they can't issue me an oath letter and I want first the court dismiss or remand my case. I agree with wenlock and PendingN400: go to your oath ceremony and dismiss the case as moot after that. BTW, congratulation for your victory!

I think the biggest factor in identifying what is the proper way of getting oath is based on knowledge of US attorney involved for some they think that USCIS lose Jurisdiction other think they have concurrent juridiction. Bottom line is once your name check is done things more much faster. If you are given option of taking oath without case dismissal or remand DO THAT otherwise remand with proper order like case can be reopen if not adjucated in 30 - 60 days. Third option is take some sort of written word from US attorney like email or some thing and dismiss the case. In case you have to reopen the case you can go back and use email as your reference.

My US attorney knows very little about all these lawsuit because this is his second case in last two years. I had to tell him many things about how stuff works or who he needs to contact at FBI or DHS. He knew some stuff but not sure what are the bits and pieces involved.

At the end nothing is certain I think every experiance is little different in a way and some thing similar in terms of out come that comes out of suit.

I guess every one should keep well informed what are possible hurdles that can come in suit and prepare in advance in case you run in to some thing but mostly mostly things work out without any major hick ups.

my .2 cents

I am junior at this forum but I have read a lot about whole process and possible out comes.