An interesting view of the immigration system...

alexandra_k

New Member
I found this post this morning via Digg.com (social media and news site): this guy wrote an article about how (according to his calculations) 50 million Americans wouldn't qualify for Green Cards if they had to apply. The URL is here:

http://www.navtejkohli.com/50-million-american-citizens-would-not-qualify-for-green-cards/

I don't know what his stance is (he doesn't even seem to have one), but it's just interesting that so many Americans couldn't get a GC on the basis of marriage. He's not including employment GCs because they're pretty tough to come by. Anyhow, I'm glad someone put it on Digg because so many people don't understand how hard it can be to get past the government's restrictions and actually reside here, permanently and legally!
 
I found this post this morning via Digg.com (social media and news site): this guy wrote an article about how (according to his calculations) 50 million Americans wouldn't qualify for Green Cards if they had to apply. The URL is here:

http://www.navtejkohli.com/50-million-american-citizens-would-not-qualify-for-green-cards/

I don't know what his stance is (he doesn't even seem to have one), but it's just interesting that so many Americans couldn't get a GC on the basis of marriage. He's not including employment GCs because they're pretty tough to come by. Anyhow, I'm glad someone put it on Digg because so many people don't understand how hard it can be to get past the government's restrictions and actually reside here, permanently and legally!

Well that piece doesn't make much sense to me, and shouldn't to anyone. Immigration laws are written in a way such that people who eventually immigrate here, somehow benefit the US, and not deplete resources. That's why they emphasize that you can't be a public charge. So it's not to say that the US doesn't have poverty, or health issues. But simply that those who are to be assimilated, should NOT exacerbate the problem.
 
I think the way it needs to be looked at is that these 50 millon Americans are presumably all U.S. citizens, therefore have a right to be in this country no matter how bad their situation. I think there's no doubt that the immigration system is selective, but for the sake of improving the overall living standard of this country, it should be.

The article raises an interesting issue about how the immigration process discriminates against gay couples by disallowing them marriage based immigration. Never thought about that!
 
I think the way it needs to be looked at is that these 50 millon Americans are presumably all U.S. citizens, therefore have a right to be in this country no matter how bad their situation. I think there's no doubt that the immigration system is selective, but for the sake of improving the overall living standard of this country, it should be.

The article raises an interesting issue about how the immigration process discriminates against gay couples by disallowing them marriage based immigration. Never thought about that!

I don't see it as discrimination, there are other immigration options for gays, like Employment, etc. I am sure in every dimension of life there are groups that benefit more than others!
 
I don't see it as discrimination, there are other immigration options for gays, like Employment, etc. I am sure in every dimension of life there are groups that benefit more than others!

Oh it is complete discrimination by the federal gov't. If they are a bonifide couple who is the gov't to say they can't enjoy all the benefits of being married just because they happen to have the same genital organs. It's complete BS.
 
I don't see it as discrimination, there are other immigration options for gays, like Employment, etc. I am sure in every dimension of life there are groups that benefit more than others!

We used to say that there were "other options" for all kinds of people, like the back of the bus. ;)
 
I don't see it as discrimination, there are other immigration options for gays, like Employment, etc. I am sure in every dimension of life there are groups that benefit more than others!

OtTHER IMMIGRATION OPTIONS?!! Shame on you. Go back under your rock.
 
Oh it is complete discrimination by the federal gov't. If they are a bonifide couple who is the gov't to say they can't enjoy all the benefits of being married just because they happen to have the same genital organs. It's complete BS.

My friend the govt writes laws desired by the people. It might not be a perfect system, but voters send their representatives to congress, not the other way around. If you follow politics you would know that in the past couple elections most states passed legislation banning gay marriage easily. So the issue here is not the govt, it is the American people who are by and large homophobic. Thats how they choose to govern and live, and i think they have a right to do so.

Americans still discriminate against women, in many places.. so gay rights are really decades away.

What DEVELOPED country in this world supports gay marriage and friendly to immigrants?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OtTHER IMMIGRATION OPTIONS?!! Shame on you. Go back under your rock.

Come on lets be fair to each other, if we understood public policy we would know that by and large the will of the people prevails. The US is not gay friendly period. Not even gay americans. I mean marriage is only between men and women in this country, and thats how a majority of Americans want it.

So don't curse me, curse Americans. I am not the problem, I dont think they are either. I just highlighted the problem.
 
Thats how they choose to govern and live, and i think they have a right to do so.

They used to say the same thing about people who had the unfortunate condition of having too much melanin in their skin. So how white are you?

America is great because the individual petty prejudices of the population are outweighed by laws. Unfortunately there are many people like yourself who believe that prejudice is OK so long as they are benefiting from it. How would it feel to be on the opposite side? We have too many immigrants - maybe we should put a moratorium on immigration for a few years. I already have my Green Card, so it wouldn't affect me. How aout you? ;)

What DEVELOPED country in this world supports gay marriage and friendly to immigrants?

Go north of the border. Or across the Atlantic.
 
I think where myredskins has a valid point is that the immigration system is designed to discrimiate. It discriminates on job skills, on nationality, on diversity or lack thereof, you name it. The family and immigration immigrant categories are called "preference" so obviously some people are preferred over others.

So I suppose the lawmakers had something in mind when they created a preference category for spouses based on a good faith marriage, as opposed to for instance a relationship/family where the couple decides not to marry. I'm sure they had similar thoughts in mind when they set different tax rates for married and unmarried couples. Laws are designed to also bring about social policy.

Here's an example, in Austria, laws for federal assistance for single mothers were enacted several years ago, giving many of them more money than they'd have if they worked. As a consequence, many couples in Austria now choose not to get married so that the mother can receive these benefits (while keeping the relationship secret), while traditionally marriage has been very important in Austria.

Back to immigration, TheRealCanadian, through what process should the country ultimately decide which immigrants to prefer over others? Or should we have no preference at all in your opinion?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They used to say the same thing about people who had the unfortunate condition of having too much melanin in their skin. So how white are you?

America is great because the individual petty prejudices of the population are outweighed by laws. Unfortunately there are many people like yourself who believe that prejudice is OK so long as they are benefiting from it. How would it feel to be on the opposite side? We have too many immigrants - maybe we should put a moratorium on immigration for a few years. I already have my Green Card, so it wouldn't affect me. How aout you? ;)



Go north of the border. Or across the Atlantic.

Mr Volunteer moderator you made some pretty darn wrong assumptions;

They used to say the same thing about people who had the unfortunate condition of having too much melanin in their skin. So how white are you?

Firstly being black is not unfortunate, its a natural thing to be admired. So watch your language MR MODERATOR ~ . Secondly I am NOT white. I am furthest from it actually.

America is great because the individual petty prejudices of the population are outweighed by laws. Unfortunately there are many people like yourself who believe that prejudice is OK so long as they are benefiting from it. How would it feel to be on the opposite side? We have too many immigrants - maybe we should put a moratorium on immigration for a few years. I already have my Green Card, so it wouldn't affect me. How aout you? ;)

But what crime did I commit here by stating that Americans are homophobic ~ therefore go after the people and not the govt (refer to original post). I do not condone discrimination, but for some reason I think immigration is a privilege & not a right, so you sort of have to recieve, than DEAMND!

Here is what surprises me about forumites. Most people who immigrate to the US do it for economic reasons, they come from countries where they could not even dream of having some of the liberties they experience here. But once they are here they clamour for more as if they have a right to it (e.g illegals demanding a right to be recognized). It doesn't make sense to me, even though I am an immigrant too. Make me understand that espect of human behaviour then maybe I can agree with you...

Lastly don't make the mistake that I am homophobic, coz I am not. I wish well my gay brothers and sisters, but at the same time I am a practical person. And I say in present day US, if they want to immigrate here they'd have to look elsewhere besides MARRIAGE, coz USC gays don't have that privilege either. Thats all.

extra rant:
the reason the US is where it is today is because for some reason the people who run it (big business) understand that without a growth in labor the economy would plateau (stagnant) fast. Look back to the 1700s (slavery saved the day then). Today, its the constant inflow of labor be it skilled or unskilled that keeps micro economies growing, beefing up demand and sustaining industry. in short its about profit growth & less about your liberties.

Like our friend from Austria just said, everything is calculated , and I totally agree. (an example, it is a deliberate attempt by the US govt not to enforce the southern border. I think its coz big business wants cheap labor. No wonder Republicans always opposed an increased min wage)

Canada can't be used as a model. It is highly under populated (30 mill) or so people. And it does not admit as many people annually as does the US. I'd say the same about European countries.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Firstly being black is not unfortunate, its a natural thing to be admired. So watch your language MR MODERATOR ~ . Secondly I am NOT white. I am furthest from it actually.

Being black in the Confederacy was most unfortunate. Being black in Deep South during the Jim Crow era was marginally less unfortunate. I make no claims as to whether being black in general is unfortunate, except that there were a lot of specific times and places where it most certain was. There probably still are.

For you to claim that homosexuals aren't discriminated against, and that there are plenty of other options for them, is actually no different than what segregationists claimed. Their whole argument was predicated on the notion that there were other options for blacks, and that segregation wasn't perceived as discrimination.

It's quite ironic, therefore, for someone who claims to be very non-white to be using the same language and philosophical justifications as George Wallace and Orval Faubus. And please don't tell me to watch my language if you cannot understand what I am trying to say.

And I say in present day US, if they want to immigrate here they'd have to look elsewhere besides MARRIAGE, coz USC gays don't have that privilege either.

Actually, in a number of states they do.

I think its coz big business wants cheap labor. No wonder Republicans always opposed an increased min wage)

There's very few big businesses that want unskilled, minimum wage labor. And you do not need to be a Republican to be against a hike in the minimum wage; I've generally found that restrictions on a free labor market tend to decrease employment. To be fair to both sides, the minimum wage hike ended up having next to no impact, since most states already had a higher minimum wage. It was all about symbolism and political points.

Canada can't be used as a model. It is highly under populated (30 mill) or so people. And it does not admit as many people annually as does the US.

I don't think Canada is all that underpopulated relative to the United States when one considers how little of it is actually inhabitable - and proportionally the Canadians admit far more immigrants than the United States. They have only a tenth the population, yet admit one fourth as many immigrants per year.

While this probably isn't the most popular forum to make the case :) , I think the problem with the US immigration system is that it's focused far too much on family ties and far too little on actual skills. When something like 85% of all immigrants are admitted based on who they are related or married to (and another 5% via the lottery) it's all out of whack. Nepotism is a lousy way to staff a company, and a lousy way to fill a country.
 
Top