AC21 no need to file anything

TheRealCanadian said:
USCIS memos explicitly say that they do not require you to file for AC21. That ends the matter.

I wish you provided some link when you decided to contradict me. Where do they say that "change jobs but dont send anything" ? I am responding only because you have some credibility around here.

2003 Yates Memo on AC21

"It is expected that the alien will have submitted evidence to the office having jurisdiction over the pending Form I-485 that the new offer of employment is in the same or similar occupational classification as the offer of employment for which the petition was filed"

Before I switched jobs based AC21 180 day law, I read all relevant memos several times. The above statement is certainly within context. USCIS expects one send papers.
 
kahuna said:
It's hard question TheRealCanadian's knowledge in this field.He is a vetran !
So please provide the link where it says that you have to file AC21 - it will help a lot of people.

I was just re-stating what is already in the memos. I am not sharing my "opinion".
 
GreenCardVirus said:
Where do they say that "change jobs but dont send anything"?

I've never made the claim that USCIS said that.

Strictly speaking, you and I are both correct. You are correct in stating that USCIS expects you to pro-actively send AC21 notification. I am correct in stating that it is not required by USCIS. Both statements can be true at the same time, which I expect will cause people some confusion, because I think they want the certainty of a statement that says "THOU SHALT DO THIS" and they can follow without thought or worry.

The ambiguity of AC21 is scope for benefit if one grasps this nettle.

Clearly, if you feel you have a slam-dunk AC21 case, there's no harm in pro-actively notifying USCIS. Just be prepared for them to ignore your notification, and issue an RFE or NOID (if the I-140 is withdrawn) anyways. If they do so, don't come running back here claiming they can't do it because you filed for AC21 benefits. :)

At the same time, if you have concerns about your eligibility under AC21, the lack of a requirement to pro-actively file can be to your benefit. In immigration (or any legal) matters, it's very rarely to your benefit to open your mouth and say something (never mind in writing!) when you do not have to. If you think you have a borderline case, say nothing and let USCIS challenge it if they want to.

I apologize for the terseness of my original response, but you really shouldn't break this down into a simple "there is one way to do it" scenario. That is certainly not the case, and depending on people's individual situations there are multiple valid ways to approach it.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Strictly speaking, you and I are both correct. You are correct in stating that USCIS expects you to pro-actively send AC21 notification.

Here's my take (opinion).

I have gone thru this cycle of Changing Jobs, Filing AC21, USCIS ignoring that, 140 revoked, 485 denied, Filing MTR and an eventual approval.

After changing jobs using AC21 - 180 day law, if you think your I-140 will be revoked, then send AC21 papers. USCIS may ignore your papers, but sometimes "you got to do what you have to do". I believe this is more of a pre-emptive measure that will 90% of the time save you a noid/denial in case 140 is really revoked. The mental tension associated with a denial is not worth saving a 2K.

If your current employer has some dignity and will not revoke 140, then I don't see the need to spend $2000 for a lawyer to send AC21 papers. USCIS will not have any reason to send a NOID/Denial. Everything can be taken care with an RFE. If you want to even pre-empt any RFE related to current employment, then send AC21.
 
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I just want to change my job with H-1B Transfer and

do not want to file AC-21 since I know my current employer will not revoke my I-140. Now, my question is:
- Is there any chance that I'll get RFE? Already, I have responded to my RFE in regards to Employment letter?
- Can I renew my EAD and AP based on I-485 pending even If I transfer my
H-1B? Do I need to get any letter from my current employer?
- Would it be any conflict If I apply from scratch? (I know it sounds silly but sometimes we don't have that much choices)

Guys, I would really appreciate your insight.



GreenCardVirus said:
Here's my take (opinion).

I have gone thru this cycle of Changing Jobs, Filing AC21, USCIS ignoring that, 140 revoked, 485 denied, Filing MTR and an eventual approval.

After changing jobs using AC21 - 180 day law, if you think your I-140 will be revoked, then send AC21 papers. USCIS may ignore your papers, but sometimes "you got to do what you have to do". I believe this is more of a pre-emptive measure that will 90% of the time save you a noid/denial in case 140 is really revoked. The mental tension associated with a denial is not worth saving a 2K.

If your current employer has some dignity and will not revoke 140, then I don't see the need to spend $2000 for a lawyer to send AC21 papers. USCIS will not have any reason to send a NOID/Denial. Everything can be taken care with an RFE. If you want to even pre-empt any RFE related to current employment, then send AC21.
 
GreenCardVirus said:
USCIS may ignore your papers, but sometimes "you got to do what you have to do". I believe this is more of a pre-emptive measure that will 90% of the time save you a noid/denial in case 140 is really revoked.

I would be really hesitant to claim that "90% of the time" a proactive AC21 will prevent an NOID or a revocation. I haven't seen any numbers, but I'd personally be surprised if the percentage was even above 50%.

If your current employer has some dignity and will not revoke 140, then I don't see the need to spend $2000 for a lawyer to send AC21 papers.

I don't see the need to spend $2000 (or even $200) to an attorney to file AC21 papers, ever. Anyone charging $2000 isn't an attorney - they're a crook!

USCIS will not have any reason to send a NOID/Denial.

But as your own case proves, USCIS can and will do so, reason or not. Additionally, in the case of an I-140 withdrawal, the memoranda clearly state that the examiner must issue an NOID, not an RFE.

If you want to even pre-empt any RFE related to current employment, then send AC21.

That's completely incorrect, as your own case proves.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
I would be really hesitant to claim that "90% of the time" a proactive AC21 will prevent an NOID or a revocation. I haven't seen any numbers, but I'd personally be surprised if the percentage was even above 50%.

Additionally, in the case of an I-140 withdrawal, the memoranda clearly state that the examiner must issue an NOID, not an RFE.

90% is just a gut feeling based on responses on this forum. Most people who post here and had their 140 revoked got NOID, few unfortunate got a denial. Rest never post on this forum.

My case was transferred to a local office. The immigration file is about inch thick, all papers pinned on the top (shorter edge of A4 doc). While the officer was turning papers, I did see the AC21 letter that I sent when I changed jobs. When the officer stopped on this page, she asked for a new letter of employment and few pay stubs. She asked me why my 140 was revoked by former employer. I said I did not know, just did not want to invite more questions. Sometime after I applied for 485, I separately sent a "court document" of an acquittal in a misdemenor criminal case I was involved. That too was in the file. Even before the officer reached this page, she asked me the same questions as on the 485 application. She asked if I were ever arrested. I said "yes". Thats it, not a single follow up question on that. What this means is that she (or USCIS) was aware of my acquittal document.

To answer any question on whether AC21 letter reached your file, I'd say it probably does in most cases. The 2 documents I sent separately did reach the file.

The AC21 memo says some think like "in the absence of AC21 evidence issue a NOID". So the officer should be a derelict to issue a NOID even if there is evidence for AC21, completely ignorant if he/she issues a Denial.

In my case I was expecting a 140 revocation, I erred on the side of caution and sent AC21 papers. I got a bad officer looking at my 485 file and it did not work out well for me. If I were to do it again, I would again send AC21 papers. Only, this time I'd send a letter myself instead of relying on a lawyer.

By the way, I finally got my real green card about a couple of hours back. Culminates 9.5 years of hope and despair.
 
Congratulations GreenCardVirus !!!. I am very happy for you. Thanks for sharing your invaluable interview experience.

I would like to reiterate here that there were LUDs on primary and dependent EADs and APs immediately after sending AC21 papers. This shows that USCIS indeed file along with our application. Lot of others have also reported changes on LUDs after sending AC21 papers.
 
Thanks & Congrats Greencardvirus

Congrats - now you can delte "Virus "from your name
Thanks for responding .
Here is what's happening to me:

I paid money to a lawyer to get his opinion - first he said no need to file- as they will not pay attention. If it's RFE then they know what to do and where to put the paper.

But Now, he says i have to file to be safe - and asks me 500 $.My freiends did send AC21 papers- but still they got RFE for EVL.....

I am not sure if he is after money or really trying to help me.

I am still confused.
 
kahuna said:
But Now, he says i have to file to be safe

Safe from what? As long as you are doing thing legally, you will be safe eventually. Only if you think your 140 will be revoked, you might avoid any possible NOID or Denial by sending AC21 docs.

With retrogression, there is lot of stagnation. Lawyers are running out of work. With increased USCIS fee, more and more people will be trying to do things themselves. More bad news for lawyers. AC21 is probably easy money.

$500 your lawyer wants seems quiet reasonable to me when compared to what other high profile lawyers want.

Filing AC21 involves:

1. Letter stating that you are changing employers based on AC21
2. Letter from New Employer, stating job duties, pay, designation and location
3. Couple of pay stubs could help.

Filing AC21 is not a formal application. You can do it yourselves.
 
Interesting read..this thread. I shall probably not send AC-21...when I switch...that seems to be what this is leaning towards
 
It seems that is correct...

dcmetro22042 said:
Interesting read..this thread. I shall probably not send AC-21...when I switch...that seems to be what this is leaning towards



I had a brief conversation with my attorney yesterday, he told me if I decide to change jobs under AC21, as long as the position and duties are same/similar, and my I-140 has been approved for at least 6 months I don't need to send anything to USCIS, he mentioned if I ever get an RFE for current EVL, that's when I send the letter from the new company stating date I joined, description of position and duties and compensation. I need to mention he is a top-notch, tough as nails immigration attorney who is a part of the best lawyer's in America publication and serves on the board of AILA.

------------------------------------
Remember, this is just my opinion, consult a qualified attorney to get precise answers to your questions.
 
Bubbles: Did you talk to him if you could get into a more senior (or managerial) position in the same industry and profile..with more money? Is that OK? You can reply here or PM me. Would really appreciate that..thanks
 
Salary would not matter

dcmetro22042 said:
Bubbles: Did you talk to him if you could get into a more senior (or managerial) position in the same industry and profile..with more money? Is that OK? You can reply here or PM me. Would really appreciate that..thanks


As long as the duties and position are similar, salary doesn't matter. Unless there is a substantial increase in salary AND the geographical area for the new job is the same (This doesn't apply if it the new job is in a different geographical area where the cost of living is higher) Also, you have to take into consideration how long has it been since you filed your LC, since cost of living increases over time as well, the new salary might reflect the increase in cost of living since the original LC was filed.

As far as the position is concerned, I would consult with a qualified attorney, it might be ok, for example, if your position changes from researcher to senior researcher. But if the position is substantially different, that might raise a red flag.

I hope this helps, and again I would double check with an attorney before making any decisions, this is what my attorney told me, and it really makes sense after reading other posts.

Good luck!
 
Buble23,

Can you please tell me who is your attorney as i would like him to represent me. I need to changes jobs but i am unsure whether to file AC-21.

Thanks,

Ke
 
Guys, please let me know who is attorney, I need to

change my job and don't want to file AC-21. The position I've been offered is a manager position since my LC is Engineer but in the same field.(Telecom)


I would really appreciate your help.
 
Finally approved without filling AC21

Since I had started this thread some time back, I want to end this by saying I finally got the email that my Green Card has been ordered . I had changed my employer back in January 2007 and I never filed anything regarding AC21, that is what even Rajeev Khanna advised me to do. So all those people who have or are planning on changing employer DO NOT file AC21 especially if your case is complicated and 6 months have passed since I140 was approved.
 
Congrats & Thanks for coming back to update all of us with your status.
Good Luck to you .






Since I had started this thread some time back, I want to end this by saying I finally got the email that my Green Card has been ordered . I had changed my employer back in January 2007 and I never filed anything regarding AC21, that is what even Rajeev Khanna advised me to do. So all those people who have or are planning on changing employer DO NOT file AC21 especially if your case is complicated and 6 months have passed since I140 was approved.
 
Approved too without filing AC21

Since I had started this thread some time back, I want to end this by saying I finally got the email that my Green Card has been ordered . I had changed my employer back in January 2007 and I never filed anything regarding AC21, that is what even Rajeev Khanna advised me to do. So all those people who have or are planning on changing employer DO NOT file AC21 especially if your case is complicated and 6 months have passed since I140 was approved.

Thank you ykhan. My I-485 was approved yesterday. I changed job in February. My new company lawyer advised me not to send anything to USCIS since it would only raise a red flag. Then this thread further encouraged me not to do so.

One thing - ABSOLUTELY make sure that your old employer won't send I-140 revocation. In case you hired your own lawyer, it won't be a problem. But if the company financed the process through their laywers, they have the leash. And there's a risk. In my opinion, whether the old employer files for withdrawal or not is even more important whether you file AC21 or not. Even if you parted on good terms, you don't know what they will do. That's what happened to me, almost. A long story. Even if your I-485 has been pending for more than 180 days, etc., the revocation might trigger a slew of problems. There are more people involved you might not take into account - for example, the company lawyers (in my case, the damn Fragomen) will definitely raise the revocation option to the HR. So just be careful and don't trust anyone!
 
What if you don't work for Sponsoring Employer

Okay agreed one should avoid informing USCIS about job change/ac21

But if you change job before 485 approval and do not submit AC21 papers then don't you have to work for the sponsoring employer after 485 approval?

Here is my situation:

I am working and continue working with Employer A on H1
Employer B sponsors my GC and I file 140/485 in EB2 porting EB3 140 filed by Employer A.

Continuing Employer B's future employment GC and at 485 stage after 180 days, I have two choices,
One is to file AC21 and continue working with Employer A
second is not to file AC21 and get the 485 approved and work for Employer B (What if I don't work with Employer B)

If 485 gets approved within 180 days then no choice, one has to work for the sponsoring employer and again if after 180 days if you dont file AC 21 papers then again one will have to work for the sponsoring employer.

I heard it creates problems during citizenship if one does not work for the sponsoring employer so isnt filing ac21 is a better option.

Can some wise guys throw some knowledge here, what are the options I can have to handle not working with employer B situation
 
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