Ac-21

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Positive4GC

Registered Users (C)
guys,
i know people might have answered this question several times. could you please confirm and i shall be all set to work with my new employer.

applied my i-140 / i-485 in 2004...i-140 approved last year and i-485 pending for more than 180 days now. i got a new job offer from one of the big companies....also got the offer letter. the offer letter format is very different and did not have the job duties and responsibilities included on my original labor. i've a copy of the labor - should i get a new offer letter from HR with this job description...

i'm not sure if the company is interested in applying for ac-21, as they are saying that, we'll do it when it is required. they have reputed lawyers, but did not submit my gc-28 form to use them.

pls advise me what my next steps are and how to proceed with HR to let them know what they have to do in order for me to start in the next few days.

thanks...
 
Positive4GC said:
i've a copy of the labor - should i get a new offer letter from HR with this job description...

>>> GET THAT LETTER WITH SAME JOB DUTIES - ITS IMPORTANT

i'm not sure if the company is interested in applying for ac-21, as they are saying that, we'll do it when it is required. they have reputed lawyers, but did not submit my gc-28 form to use them.

>>>> THERE IS NO SUCH CONCEPT OF A COMPANY APPLYING FOT AC21. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR NEW COMPANY. I SUUGEST YOU SEND G28 AND DIRECT ALL CORESPONDENCE TO YOUR OWN ADDRESS RIGHT AFTER YOU SWITCH JOB. YOU DONT HAVE TO FILE G28 WITH NEW COMPANY'S LAWYER. HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR A LAWYER HOWEVER IF AND WHEN YOU NEED ONE, YOUR NEW LAWYER WILL TAKE CARE OF A "NEW" G28. "REPUTER LAWYERS" WILL RIP YOU WITH FEES THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO GIVE THEM.

pls advise me what my next steps are and how to proceed with HR to let them know what they have to do in order for me to start in the next few days.

>>>> " JUST GET THE LETTER WITH NEW DUTIES AND YOU ARE DONE " NO NEED FOR ANY AC21 LETTER. UNLESS YOU HAVE EXTRA $$ AND TIME.

thanks...
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Cheekoo,
the new employer's HR is saying that they would provide me with any documentation in case of a query from USCIS. But the initial job offer letter does not have anything about my responsibilities. It is very generic by saying that I would be involved in the duties whatever is required by the team.

If, in future, I get a query from USCIS and HR provides a letter explaining my job duties and responsibilities, would that suffice in my I-485 approval. The lawyers are from FDBL (hope they are good enough to handle such cases).
But please let me know if the letter before I join the firm is really important. I still have 3-4 more weeks before I join this new employer. I already have an offer letter from HR of this company.

thanks.
 
Positive4GC said:
Cheekoo,
the new employer's HR is saying that they would provide me with any documentation in case of a query from USCIS. But the initial job offer letter does not have anything about my responsibilities. It is very generic by saying that I would be involved in the duties whatever is required by the team.
DO YOUR FUTURE MANAGER BUYS IN THIS ? IF NOT, YOUR COULD BE TOSSED IN THE FUTURE

If, in future, I get a query from USCIS and HR provides a letter explaining my job duties and responsibilities, would that suffice in my I-485 approval. The lawyers are from FDBL (hope they are good enough to handle such cases).
But please let me know if the letter before I join the firm is really important. I still have 3-4 more weeks before I join this new employer. I already have an offer letter from HR of this company.
REPUTATION LAWYER IS ONE THING. BUT THE TRUE IS ANOTHER THING. REPUTATION LAWYER WILL NOT BEND THE TRUE FOR JUST ONE PERSON :) BUT IF YOUR MANAGER AND HR AGREE TO PROVIDE EVIDENT OF EQUALIZATION JOB OFFER. YOU SHOULD BE FINE. BUT FOR SURE, YOU SHOULD TALK YOUR CASE WITH THE REPUTATION LAWYER.
DON'T MESS UP YOUR CASE AT THIS STAGE IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

thanks.
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Positive4GC said:
Cheekoo,
the new employer's HR is saying that they would provide me with any documentation in case of a query from USCIS. But the initial job offer letter does not have anything about my responsibilities. It is very generic by saying that I would be involved in the duties whatever is required by the team.

Atleast job title should be simmilar.

If, in future, I get a query from USCIS and HR provides a letter explaining my job duties and responsibilities, would that suffice in my I-485 approval. The lawyers are from FDBL (hope they are good enough to handle such cases).
But please let me know if the letter before I join the firm is really important. I still have 3-4 more weeks before I join this new employer. I already have an offer letter from HR of this company.

You dont need the lawyers, more than the letter with aleast "SAME JOB TITLE" . I am surprised as the BIG company HR is reluctant to give you a simple letter. What guarantee is there that they would give you the letter when USCIS asks for it ? If thats a high profile job, how come there is no advertisement with the skills required for this job. It doesnt seem to be a smooth thing. Re-check your options. The formula is simple .. you need to prove that its "same or similar" now how can you be sure that they are actually giving you almost same job.

thanks.
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Me too. I am also in the same situation, new company(a software gaint) HR just gets very suspicious when I talk about LC wording in the offer letter. HR thinks that I am being very job specific and they say lot of new guys are working on EAD without any changes to the standard offer letter.

I have the internet ad that company placed for four continous months and title, salary, geographic location same as in the labor. I have no doubt that they will be using all my skills in the job because I repeatedly confirmed this in the tech interviews.

INS should go to job duties only when the occupational title is different right ?.
 
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The emphasise is on the title because a syatem administratot will not be developing web based applications. However the RFE issued by USCIS specifically asks for Job Duties ..... and you should not twist job details at that stage.
 
Cheekoo said:
The emphasise is on the title because a syatem administratot will not be developing web based applications. However the RFE issued by USCIS specifically asks for Job Duties ..... and you should not twist job details at that stage.
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thanks for the quick reply Cheekoo. The job is certainly related to all my experience that was built over 10+ years, the hardway mostly on H1. That way duties wise, my experience letters and the job ad are a perfect match. Old and new job titles are the same and also title is related to my experience.

The main problem here seems to be adding duties to offer letter because of HRs reluctance to change the standard procedure or do any additional paper work.

When new title(occupational classification), salary(excluding options and bonus), geographic location and duties as per ad are the same as per LC, would there be high chances for a RFE. We can add new company's reputation.

I am also talking to some leading attorneys to know any other risk factors. Any insights will help me while I talk to attorneys. thanks.
 
Cheekoo said:
The emphasise is on the title because a syatem administratot will not be developing web based applications. However the RFE issued by USCIS specifically asks for Job Duties ..... and you should not twist job details at that stage.
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My LC job title is Programmer / Analyst with EJB, Java, PL/SQL, VB, JSP, etc skills. It also mentions about design, development, coding, implementation, testing, etc which is very common with desi consulting companies.
The new title is a developpment manager position. Job description what was posted on the internet was very similar (90% match) to what I had on Labor, if not the exact wording. But the duties are very similar like desiging apps using Java, J2EE, EJB, XML, Weblogic, etc.

I do not have that job description anywhere on the internet now. I'm trying by all means to get that letter from HR. Would it be fine, if my manager gives the job description on a company letter head, if HR cannot help me. Does it help me incase of a query from USCIS.

thanks.
 
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Positive4GC,

My guess is, the new job should be in the same or similar job to the one described in Labor. It may be something close enough. The title may or may not be same. If you have the approved labor copy, it will have the OCC code in the format xxx.xxx-xxx. Get the equivalent OES/SOC occupation code for that OCC code. Go to the link "http://online.onetcenter.org/find/family/title?s=15&g=Go" and get the details of the job. If you reverse engineer your new job details and get the OCC code same as your labor's OCC code then I guess you should be okay. Also look at the sample of reported job titles in the link provided.

Hope this information helps. Check with a good attorney.
 
Positive4GC said:
My LC job title is Programmer / Analyst with EJB, Java, PL/SQL, VB, JSP, etc skills. It also mentions about design, development, coding, implementation, testing, etc which is very common with desi consulting companies.
The new title is a developpment manager position. Job description what was posted on the internet was very similar (90% match) to what I had on Labor, if not the exact wording. But the duties are very similar like desiging apps using Java, J2EE, EJB, XML, Weblogic, etc.

I do not have that job description anywhere on the internet now. I'm trying by all means to get that letter from HR. Would it be fine, if my manager gives the job description on a company letter head, if HR cannot help me. Does it help me incase of a query from USCIS.

thanks.
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Letter from the Manager should be fine too. All there is to establish similarity. Generally, lawyers do not want to get into playing another case of proving it, thats why they prefer to have even same words. " not to complicate anything else ". If you are satisfied with it I am sure your lawyer can satisfy USCIS if required.

I am just worndering, once you join the new company, and if you ask for a service letter, what would they write on it. Now the difference between a PROGRAMER and MANAGER is obvious. While you consult the lawyer ask him if it makes a difference.

This is the delima here. In such a fast paced world, USCIS thinks people would stay at the same level forever. What to say, its sad.
 
Cheekoo said:
Letter from the Manager should be fine too. All there is to establish similarity. Generally, lawyers do not want to get into playing another case of proving it, thats why they prefer to have even same words. " not to complicate anything else ". If you are satisfied with it I am sure your lawyer can satisfy USCIS if required.

I am just worndering, once you join the new company, and if you ask for a service letter, what would they write on it. Now the difference between a PROGRAMER and MANAGER is obvious. While you consult the lawyer ask him if it makes a difference.

This is the delima here. In such a fast paced world, USCIS thinks people would stay at the same level forever. What to say, its sad.
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Guys, thanks for your reply.

Cheekoo,
I discussed everything from HR and this is what they have - they would give me an employment verification letter with the job duties / responsibilities ( they might agree to give it whatever my manager might say ) in case of any query. But they do not want to add anything to the existing offer letter :( . I know it is weird. Since its a very big company, I cannot push the HR. This is where our desi companies help us :)

Would that be fine? My manager would definitely give me anything that I would request him. But as far as the offer letter, it is very generic with the normal salary, start date, etc and the job title ( manager ). If I provide just the EVL, at the time of the query, would that support my case? My job duties 95% matches most of my labor specified duties / responsibilities. Do I need the exact word match ? or is it ok to just put it as per the new description, which is written in a different way with the same duties.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

thanks.
 
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Positive4GC,
I don't know how much I will be useful, I am also in the same boat with one little exception being title is the same. I cannot push this new gaint company HR to do anything other than ordinary, at the sametime, I am not sure if I ever get this offer even after getting a GC.

From what I have researched sofar, it appears that old and new occupational title (classification) needs to be same. Please go to a good lawyer, they will go through all this o*net/dictionary of occupational titles and help you by adding supporting docs. I am already consulting some lawyers without even having the actual offer.

This AC21 should not be one of those many things from INS that is intended to help us but gets us nowhere when we really seek.
 
indian_gc_ocean said:
Positive4GC,
I don't know how much I will be useful, I am also in the same boat with one little exception being title is the same. I cannot push this new gaint company HR to do anything other than ordinary, at the sametime, I am not sure if I ever get this offer even after getting a GC.

From what I have researched sofar, it appears that old and new occupational title (classification) needs to be same. Please go to a good lawyer, they will go through all this o*net/dictionary of occupational titles and help you by adding supporting docs. I am already consulting some lawyers without even having the actual offer.

This AC21 should not be one of those many things from INS that is intended to help us but gets us nowhere when we really seek.
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indian_gc_ocean,
My prior job title says programmer/analyst and the new title is a development manager. I believe the job title can be different with the exception, job duties and responsibilities should be the same. My role and duties matches mostly what is specified from labor app, with a different wording. I just want to make sure if EVL (that has the job description matching my LC app) is sufficient to produce to USCIS incase of any query.
 
Positive4GC said:
Guys, thanks for your reply.

Cheekoo,
I discussed everything from HR and this is what they have - they would give me an employment verification letter with the job duties / responsibilities ( they might agree to give it whatever my manager might say ) in case of any query. But they do not want to add anything to the existing offer letter :( . I know it is weird. Since its a very big company, I cannot push the HR. This is where our desi companies help us :)

Would that be fine? ---- yes, i discussed it with a friend as well and now i guess you should be ok.

If I provide just the EVL, at the time of the query, would that support my case? My job duties 95% matches most of my labor specified duties / responsibilities. Do I need the exact word match ? or is it ok to just put it as per the new description, which is written in a different way with the same duties.

----- try to use as many common words as possible. Its a service letter which should be provided to you any time its requested.

For example, if you need to invite your "Mother in Law" from India, you would need that kind of a letter for US Embassy in India. People get that all the time. That should not be a problem.

.
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Thanks cheekoo....I just want to confirm one last time that EVL (employment verification letter with the job description) is the only document required from my side, at a minimum, incase of a query. I'm not planning to send AC-21 documents at this time. I'll wait for uscis to get back to me.

thanks for your responses!!!!! appreciate your patience.
 
Positive4GC said:
Thanks cheekoo....I just want to confirm one last time that EVL (employment verification letter with the job description) is the only document required from my side, at a minimum, incase of a query. I'm not planning to send AC-21 documents at this time. I'll wait for uscis to get back to me.

thanks for your responses!!!!! appreciate your patience.
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As far as AC21 and switching Jobs are concern ... yes you would just need this letter "when and if required" by the USCIS. ofcourse pay stubs or may be tax returns.

I have never seen anyone getting a personalised response from USCIS. They NEVER give personalised response to ANY letter you may send them. The only time you get a Pre-Fabricated response when you launch an enquiry through telephone at the customer service center. that too gets you a general letter with NO PRACTICAL help to you.

I still wonder why people talk about "Invoking Ac21" when there is not a single incedent or simply some kind of a trace of any LUD or possible reply or even a response from USCIS indicating that "Yes we got your AC21 letter" and NOW we will "APPLY" AC21 to your case.

Good Luck
 
I have consulted some leading lawyers these are the following reasons for doing AC21 proactively,

1. In most cases it prevents issuing NOID after I140 revocation.
2. By the time we get the RFE/LUD on I140 or I485 because of I140 revocation, it can be too late in the game, it would take more effort to reinstate the case.
3. Yes, INS does not acknowledge ac21 but if we file through a good lawyer, there is good chance that they take a serious note of it.
4. Filing ac21 and getting an NOID is reputation issue for any leading attorney, they will fight.

BTW, I could convince my new company HR to send same/similar job duties letter to my attorney directly rather than to me. That made the HR very comfortable because now they are very sure that I will not legally abuse any such letter. Positive4GC, you can also try the same route.

Only issue remaining is leaving the current employer in good terms.
 
Here's my reasons.

1, There is NO laid down process/requirement for a Proactive letter. There are many cases on record where people sent the letter and still got NOID or denied. Why cant USCIS make a form like AR11 (change of address) for AC21 (change of employer) sent each time you switch job ? ... because the only stage its important is when your I485 is getting approved.

2, We NEVER get RFE on I140, When an employer revokes I140. No one gets any RFE. Its only when I485 in sent NOID/Denial notice, then you get to know whats hit you. So when AC21 letter can not stop the NOID/Denial why write it ? At that point also, USCIS asks for " CURRENT EMPLOYMENT DETAILS ".

3, When USCIS does not acknowledge The AC21 letter and no LUD is shown, there is a good chance that its discarded even if its typed by a good lawyer who charged $1000.- Whats the point of writing it if its not included in your I485 process.

4, Getting back to basic point .. there no concept of " FILLING AC21 " with USCIS. If there is then there is NO PROCEDURE prescribed for such letters. Lawyers will fight for a client's I485 WOW.. thats new and also for free ? ... Never happened on Earth.

AC21 letter ... Proactively ... no one reads it ... never reaches your file ... has no LEGAL effect on your GC process. Why make assumptions when there is not even a single proof of acknowledgemnt of that letter can be provided. Even by GOOD LAWYERS.

I say .. If you somehow decide to send the letter for self satisfaction ... dont use any lawyer and pay them $$$. You can easily find a format in this forum .. use it.
 
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