N-400 denail notice

V

vack

Registered Users (C)
Hello,

I am 30 y.o. and I applied for naturalization a couple months ago, passed the interview and all that. I have been living in the US over 5 yrs. I have no criminal record. I did submit the status letter from the selective service that states I cannot be denied federal benefit based on failure to register with Selective Service and all that. Yesterday I received a denial notice in mail.
It states "Because of your willful failure to register, you will be unable to file for naturalization until after the age of 31". Also they say that I can request a hearing by filling form N-336.
I don't get, I never received any letter from Selective Service asking me to register? I was not aware of this registration until I was over 26 when I applied for scholarship. How is that willful? I thought that all my paper work are in order so one day I will become a US citizen.
I don't know what to do now?
I am thinking about getting a lawyer and appeal, but I don't know how muck that will cost?
I will be turning 31 in about 6 months from know, should I wait? I am worried if do and I let these 30 days pass by of appeal it will come to hunt me later when I reapply because the Naturalization Eligibility Worksheet (uscis dot gov/sites/default/files/files/article/attachments.pdf) states that
One of the following is true:
  • I am female,or
  • I am a male registered with the Selective Service, or
  • I am a male who did not enter the United States under any status until after my 26th birthday, or
  • I am a male who was in the United States between the ages of 18 and 26 but who did not register with the Selective Service, and I will send a “Status Information Letter” from the Selective Service explaining why I did not register with my application
  • I am a male who was in the United States between the ages of 18 and 26 as a lawful nonimmigrant
Otherwise You are not eligible to apply for naturalization.

I am a little confused because it seems that USCIS contradict themselves. On the Naturalization Eligibility Worksheet they say basically I am not eligible to apply for naturalization. The notice I received from them today says that I can file again for naturalization when I am 31 y.o.

Your experience and suggestion will be much appreciated.
 
Based on your post, I am going to assume that you met the criteria for Selective Service Registration?

Just because you are not aware of a law, does not mean it doesn't exist. You cannot claim that you didnt know that you had to pay taxes, and that would make it all ok. You get the point

Sounds like they are giving you another chance at it after 31 (dont know why and what this even means). I would suggest that you consult an attorney and explore your options (appeal or apply next year). Good luck!
 
Yes I agree too. Just because you did not know it does not make it right.

For naturalization they always check if you are a model citizen for the past 5 years only. So just because you made a mistake and got arrested it does not mean you can never become a citizen.

So selective service is for age 26. So if you file now it will get rejected. Now after 31 it goes beyond 5 years.
 
When did you first come to US? Under what visa category? How old were you at that time?

When did you get your green card? Under what category? How old were you at that time?
 
Dedo said:
Sounds like they are giving you another chance at it after 31 (dont know why and what this even means).
Click to expand...

It's because the last chance to register is your 26th birthday, and at 31 your failure to register would be 5 years ago, putting it outside the statutory period for "good moral character".
 
vack said:
It states "Because of your willful failure to register, you will be unable to file for naturalization until after the age of 31". Also they say that I can request a hearing by filling form N-336.
I don't get, I never received any letter from Selective Service asking me to register? I was not aware of this registration until I was over 26 when I applied for scholarship. How is that willful? I thought that all my paper work are in order so one day I will become a US citizen.
Click to expand...

What was your immigration status(es) during the time you spent in the US between your 18th and 26th birthdays? That's the key to your chances of a successful appeal.
 
Jackolantern said:
It's because the last chance to register is your 26th birthday, and at 31 your failure to register would be 5 years ago, putting it outside the statutory period for "good moral character".
Click to expand...

So why do we have to disclose all our citations we had regardless of when they happened? This may include traffic tickets depending on the interviewer.
 
girimurthy said:
You will have to wait till you turn 31 and refile since you were a PR at that age
Click to expand...
When I refile after I turned 31:
A. Do I have to resubmit status letter that I received from SS a few yrs ago accompanied with letter I wrote explaining that I was not aware of filling requarement with SS?
B. Do I have to request a new status letter from SS?
C. Ignore SS paperwork because it is out of statuary?
 
chracatoa said:
So why do we have to disclose all our citations we had regardless of when they happened? This may include traffic tickets depending on the interviewer.
Click to expand...

Some offenses cause your naturalization to be denied regardless of when they happened. Some only cause denial if they were within the 5-year/3-year statutory period; that is the case for failing to register for Selective Service. Some cause denial based on whether they occurred after the major changes to immigration law in 1996, or after you turned 18. Some don't affect naturalization at all.

Since there are all those different rules, they ask for everything so they can figure it out.
 
vack said:
When I refile after I turned 31:
A. Do I have to resubmit status letter that I received from SS a few yrs ago accompanied with letter I wrote explaining that I was not aware of filling requarement with SS?
B. Do I have to request a new status letter from SS?
C. Ignore SS paperwork because it is out of statuary?
Click to expand...

C. If you apply after your 31st birthday they won't care about SS any more.

But you might have been registered and don't know it, because for more than 10 years they've been automatically registering male green card applicants within the 18-26 age range. Call up the Selective Service and ask them to double-check if you were registered. The letter you got said "cannot be denied federal benefit based on failure to register", but that doesn't exactly say you weren't registered, because that statement could be true if you actually registered. If you were indeed registered, you can easily win the appeal.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackolantern said:
C. If you apply after your 31st birthday they won't care about SS any more.

But you might have been registered and don't know it, because for more than 10 years they've been automatically registering male green card applicants within the 18-26 age range. Call up the Selective Service and ask them to double-check if you were registered. The letter you got said "cannot be denied federal benefit based on failure to register", but that doesn't exactly say you weren't registered, because that statement could be true if you actually registered. If you were indeed registered, you can easily win the appeal.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately my friend, the letter states that SS does not have record of me because that's what I had in mind too. However, I did give them a call anyways. The SS representative conformed that they did not register me automatically.
 
You were among the unlucky small percentage who didn't get automatically registered. Fortunately your 31st birthday isn't very far away.

Next time, if the interviewer makes an issue of your lack of Selective Service registration, remind them that you're 31.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackolantern said:
Next time, if the interviewer makes an issue of your lack of Selective Service registration, remind them that you're 31.
Click to expand...
I have just found out from this website (nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/naturalization-eligibility-men-who-failed-register-with-the-selective-service.html) that if you are married to US citizen for 3 years you can basically apply for naturalization at age of 29. I qualify for this because I have been married to US citizen longer than that. However, the question is after I receiver the denial notice, do I still have a chance for amendment. When I applied I did not put check mark applying based on marriage but I check applying based on 5 years I thought it would be much easier less paperwork and all that. We were thinking that I can't be denied for something that we both were not aware off.

Note: that the decision for naturalization is not final until 30 days has passed.
 
vack said:
I have just found out from this website (nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/naturalization-eligibility-men-who-failed-register-with-the-selective-service.html) that if you are married to US citizen for 3 years you can basically apply for naturalization at age of 29. I qualify for this because I have been married to US citizen longer than that. However, the question is after I receiver the denial notice, do I still have a chance for amendment.
Click to expand...

If you met the requirements for the 3-year marriage rule when you applied months ago, and continue to meet the requirements (still living with your spouse etc.) you can appeal and ask for it to be switched to the 3-year rule. Of course, you'll also have to supply the additional evidence in support of your ongoing marriage, and you'll need to write a clear letter explaining why your eligibility after SS nonregistration is restored at 29 years old instead of the usual 31.

However, although they'll readily accept changes from the 5-year to 3-year rule or vice versa in the interview, I don't know if they'll accept such a change after they've issued a denial. And since you'll be submitting an entire stack of evidence that wasn't considered before at any time during the process and wasn't related to your original basis of eligibility, it might take longer to get an appeal hearing, or longer for them to decide it after the hearing.

Alternatively, instead of appealing you could reapply immediately with the 3-year rule. That would eliminate the question of whether they'd accept a post-interview/post-denial change from the 5-year rule to 3-year rule, and it probably wouldn't take much longer than appealing (if it takes longer at all).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackolantern said:
Alternatively, instead of appealing you could reapply immediately with the 3-year rule. That would eliminate the question of whether they'd accept a post-interview/post-denial change from the 5-year rule to 3-year rule, and it probably wouldn't take much longer than appealing (if it takes longer at all).
Click to expand...
Can you please clarify about applying immediately under the three year rule? Will I have to be interviewed again, will the past denial based on not registering for selective services be used against me? When sending N-400 should I include status letter from SS or no? How likely is it that I will be approved if I reapply under the 3 year rule instead of the 5? I really want to make sure.
 
vack said:
Can you please clarify about applying immediately under the three year rule? Will I have to be interviewed again, will the past denial based on not registering for selective services be used against me?
Click to expand...
You will have to be interviewed again. The past denial will not be held against you; denial for failing to register is easily remedied by reapplying when your 26th birthday is outside the statutory period.

When sending N-400 should I include status letter from SS or no?
Click to expand...
Bring it to the interview.

How likely is it that I will be approved if I reapply under the 3 year rule instead of the 5?
Click to expand...
You will be approved as long as (1) you assert that you've been eligible for naturalization since you turned 29 because the failure to register is outside the statutory period which is 3 years in your case and not the usual 5 years/age 31, and (2) you don't get an ignorant interviewer who is unaware of the age-29 condition for men who apply with the 3-year marriage rule (hopefully even if this happens the supervisor will save you).
 
First of all, I just want to thank you for clarifying all that.
Jackolantern said:
You will have to be interviewed again. The past denial will not be held against you; denial for failing to register is easily remedied by reapplying when your 26th birthday is outside the statutory period.
Click to expand...
Since I have to be interviewed again, I would probably just wait until the next summer and reapply.

I don't trust that interviewers (I think they get a raise when they deny a person) I remember at the interview he was asking me questions such as if my wife lives with me, I said yes and it is the truth. Since he knows that I would be denied, why he did not tell me that it would be better if you apply based on marriage. I might be wrong but hopefully next time I will be interviewed by a nice and knowledgeable officer.

I learn from somewhere else that the longer you wait the dangerous it is (something might come out of nowhere to jeopardize your eligibility for naturalization). I can tell you that I am a little intimidated by either waiting or reapplying. I don't know which is the worse of the two evils.
 
vack said:
I don't trust that interviewers (I think they get a raise when they deny a person) I remember at the interview he was asking me questions such as if my wife lives with me, I said yes and it is the truth. Since he knows that I would be denied, why he did not tell me that it would be better if you apply based on marriage.
Click to expand...

It is not their job to think of another basis on which you could be approved and point it out to you. It's nice when some of them do that, but it's not their responsibility.

But if you apply on a certain basis with legitimate evidence that makes you definitely approvable on that basis, they're obligated understand to the relevant laws and approve you. If you reapply now with the 3-year rule and assert your eligibility since age 29, denial would happen only if both the interviewer and the supervisor who reviews the case didn't know the rule, and if you're denied it would be a wrongful denial for which you'd easily win the appeal. Don't delay the application just because you're afraid of a slight chance of getting an ignorant interviewer.

However, if you apply under the 3 year rule you definitely need to make sure you're not deniable for any other reason. Why didn't you apply with the 3-year rule in 2011? Did you get married after obtaining your green card? Are you aware that your spouse must have had US citizenship for at least full 3 years as of the date you apply with the 3-year rule?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top