My 22 year journey comes to a close

Dedo

Registered Users (C)
Hello All - Just want to let you know of my interview experience today. We were scheduled for a 9:00 AM interview at the Baltimore office, and having woken up bright and early, both my wife and I were in the waiting room by 8:10 AM. Fairly simple process to check in once you get in the building and find the room. It was early so there just a few people there waiting. Seemed like people were getting called in quickly and the environment was pretty light, stress-free. I was called in 30 minutes early and was ready to go. I introduced myself to a very nice officer who seemed like he would be very pleasant to deal with. Its always good to start with a happy face.

We went in, he advised me that he would record video of our meeting, and then started going down the N-400 form and asking general questions. I liked his style, very conversational yet probing in the right areas to test for correctness. we got to the civics test, easy...then the reading and writing which was quick. The officer was very diligent, as he made notes of practically everything I said and explained, as he went down the entire n-400 form. He asked about my job, where I live, how long, etc. He also told me that there was an oath ceremony in the afternoon and that me and my wife could do that. I was elated.

I had a slew of documents with me which I never had to use. We got down to the travel part and he saw my long list of international travel (all very short business trips, nothing impacting continuous stay), and he started to go down the list and checking against passport stamps. He made it down a third of the way and told me he will need to go through all the list and check against his records once we are done. He told me that he just needed to look in his systems to validate the timing of all these trips. Soon after, we were done and he told me that all is good, but he couldn't make a decision until he finished his due diligence on the travel, but I would get approval soon enough. Of course I was disappointed and I asked if there is any way we could do this together right now, and he said he just needed some time. Then he realized that my wife will likely take the oath today and he told me that if his next appointment is not here he would work on it now while I waited outside.

I went out to the waiting room, knowing all was good but not quite excited. Then my wife gets called in by another officer and in she goes. While I wait, my officer comes out and tells me that he checked everything out and all is good, and hands me my oath letter. I thank him for going the extra mile and finally get a big smile on my face. My wife's interview was very smooth too and she comes out with an approval!

The oath was a few hours later in the same office, so we headed out for lunch and hung outside. we came back in and had to wait in a waiting area for 45 minutes before they finally shuffled us into the oath room. There they checked everyone's oath letter one by one, had us hand in our GCs and letter, and sit down. Then we said the pledge as a group, sang the national anthem, and watched a video by President Obama. Soon after we were done!

This marks the end of a long journey for me as I passed through F, H visas and GCs and I am really glad to be done. As long as I have lived here, I have always felt at home here and this was just the official stamp to seal the deal. To all of you waiting, be patient, be prepared, and most importantly, be respectful to the officer that you deal with. Your time will come!

Total GC time: 5.5 years
Total USC time: 4.75 months

Cheers!
 
Congrats!

Personally, I don't feel the journey is really done until I have the US passport in my hand. Can't do much with the naturalization certificate by itself, and the naturalization certificate is sort of an outsider document because born citizens don't have it and most have probably never even seen one. And I don't even have any official proof of US citizenship in my possession while I'm waiting for the passport to be issued, because they take away the naturalization certificate for the passport processing. When the passport arrives then I can look at it and hold it and think to myself that it's finally over!
 
Ha Ha Jacko, that's exactly right. I am applying for my passport tomorrow, and am already concerned about how they will handle my naturalization certificate (will they fold it when they return it, etc.). Then later I will have to preserve this document also...so I guess its never really over

But I know one thing for sure, that I no longer need to be paranoid about my extensive immigration records, etc. I'll file it all away and forget about it, as it has been replaced by a single piece of paper.
 
Make sure that you make a copy of your certificate and store that also in a secure place in case the original somehow is getting destroyed.
 
Can't do much with the naturalization certificate by itself, and the naturalization certificate is sort of an outsider document because born citizens don't have it...

Actually, the US passport itself is a bit of an outsider document. Almost all newly naturalized citizens seem to be in a big rush to get a US passport. Not so, you will notice, with born citizens--only about 40% of the population have passports.

You've observed that you "can't do much" with the naturalization certificate but that is just the point--born citizens typically are in no rush to "do something" with their citizenship documents. For born citizens, often their citizenship only really comes up when they start a new job--and for that, a regular SSN card plus a driver's license is sufficient.

IMHO it is really the updating of the SSN records/SSN card to citizen status that puts one on a par with a born citizen (from a documentary perspective). I believe that can be done in a SSA office without surrendering (just showing) the naturalization certificate and without obtaining a passport.

Anyways congrats to Dedo!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually, the US passport itself is a bit of an outsider document. Almost all newly naturalized citizens seem to be in a big rush to get a US passport. Not so, you will notice, with born citizens--only about 40% of the population have passports.

It's true that most US citizens don't have a passport. But most born citizens have US birth certificates which is something naturalized citizens can never get. The US passport is the one citizenship document in common with born US citizens (at least those who have a US passport), and it is readily recognized by other US citizens even if they don't have their own passport.
 
Actually, the US passport itself is a bit of an outsider document. Almost all newly naturalized citizens seem to be in a big rush to get a US passport. Not so, you will notice, with born citizens--only about 40% of the population have passports.
There is an obvious reason that naturalized citizens have a bigger urgency for a passport and that's because we probably have family outside the country or have other reasons for needing to travel abroad. Most of us already had passports to get into the US, right?

IMHO it is really the updating of the SSN records/SSN card to citizen status that puts one on a par with a born citizen (from a documentary perspective). I believe that can be done in a SSA office without surrendering (just showing) the naturalization certificate and without obtaining a passport.
When I became a citizen, I went straight from my naturalization ceremony to the local SSA office and got my citizenship status updated. All I needed to do was show them my Naturalization Certificate and they gave it right back to me on the spot. I don't even think they made a copy of it for their records.
 
It's true that most US citizens don't have a passport. But most born citizens have US birth certificates which is something naturalized citizens can never get. The US passport is the one citizenship document in common with born US citizens (at least those who have a US passport), and it is readily recognized by other US citizens even if they don't have their own passport.

There is no one citizenship document that would be readily recognized by other US citizens. There is no such thing as a standard US birth certificate--rather there are 50+ state and other birth certificates. I am sure that in, say, California it is much more common to see a naturalization certificate than it is to see, say, a Rhode Island birth certificate.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is an obvious reason that naturalized citizens have a bigger urgency for a passport and that's because we probably have family outside the country or have other reasons for needing to travel abroad. Most of us already had passports to get into the US, right?

Understood. But the need to visit family with foreign citizenships in a foreign country--who may not particularly care about US citizenship--really has nothing to do with the journey to become a US citizen. That's a family matter, not a citizenship matter. Visiting mom and dad in the country of birth is hardly an experience that will make me feel more American--quite the contrary, it is the one thing in my life that still isn't and never will be American.

The SSN card without restrictions is really the only national document that the vast majority of US citizens all have.
 
Most citizens who do not travel, hardly even have their birth certificate on hand, and they never worry about anything to prove. I think most newer naturalized citizens tend to travel more than the average american and hence the passport is required. I have never been without a valid passport all my life, so now suddenly being without one just feels wierd. Most of us also have family around the world that we feel we need to have access to if needed.

If I never had a need to leave the country, I would lock away my certificate and it would be worth something, just like a birth certificate for a natural born citizen. There would be no rush for a passport
 
Most citizens who do not travel, hardly even have their birth certificate on hand, and they never worry about anything to prove. I think most newer naturalized citizens tend to travel more than the average american and hence the passport is required. I have never been without a valid passport all my life, so now suddenly being without one just feels wierd. Most of us also have family around the world that we feel we need to have access to if needed.

Really? In 22 years there have never been even brief gaps when you didn't have a passport because it was being renewed?

The USA will expedite passport processing if there is an urgent need to travel--something my former country won't do if I'm living in the USA. I'm not sure I see a "weirdness" beyond an ordinary passport renewal process.
 
Understood. But the need to visit family with foreign citizenships in a foreign country--who may not particularly care about US citizenship--really has nothing to do with the journey to become a US citizen. That's a family matter, not a citizenship matter. Visiting mom and dad in the country of birth is hardly an experience that will make me feel more American--quite the contrary, it is the one thing in my life that still isn't and never will be American.

I was rationalizing the factors regarding why naturalized USCs get their passports quickly. I agree with Dedo that naturalized citizens tend to be better internationally traveled than the average born American.

Also, I actually do feel a difference with a US passport because it opens more doors to more countries without needing a visa unlike my former citizenship did and so it is a direct consequence of my US citizenship. I see that as part of my American experience, it may not make me feel more American but it does underscore the value of the US passport to me.
 
Word of advice to the original poster: Make sure the passport acceptance agent has you sign your application. The passport acceptance agent that my wife went to two weeks after becoming a citizen was happy to see that she did the application on the computer (printed instead of handwritten) and had the check ready that she forgot to ask my wife to sign the application. It took six weeks for my wife to get a reply from the Passport Agency in DC that her application was not signed. For that simple mistake she went to the DC Passport Agency the day after receiving the letter (without an appointment) and was there for two hours. When she was there the clerk got her original application, had her sign it and allowed her to use another picture. The clerk offered her to pick up her passport two days later, but my wife couldn't so they mailed it.

To answer your question regarding how the passport agency handles your naturalization certificate. My wife got her passport book and the certificate sent back to her in a USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope (8.5x11). For course the mailman bent it in order to get it in the mailbox.
 
But it doesn't prove US citizenship, as permanent residents are also eligible for the unrestricted SS card.

No it doesn't. There is no one definitive proof of US citizenship that all US citizens carry so I'm not sure that there is any one document that you can acquire that makes you a "real, card carrying American".

I would suggest that the SSN card is the closest, though:

Almost all US citizens carry it.

Permanent residents are a relatively small part of the population--about 13 million as opposed to 300 million US citizens.

Even though the card itself may not distinguish between a PR and a USC, the SSN files DO distinguish between these cases.
 
No it doesn't. There is no one definitive proof of US citizenship that all US citizens carry so I'm not sure that there is any one document that you can acquire that makes you a "real, card carrying American".

For me, that document is the US passport. If I show it to any American, chances are 99.9% they'll know that it means I'm a citizen, even if they don't have a US passport of their own. But show a naturalization certificate and lots of them are wondering what it means. Bring your naturalization certificate to work, pass it around and watch the confusion and questions.
 
I'd say the US passport is the one document I was hankering for. True, most Americans do not have one, but I am part of the social group of Americans who tend to have passports, and in that sense, when I have it (though, it still feels surreal sometimes), I feel American. This might also have to do with the fact that I have an American accent most of the time, and everyone has always assumed I'm American (or Canadian?). I've always claimed to be from California (since I moved to the US for high school and then moved abroad), so not having to explain that I'm NOT a US citizen, which I always had to do, is nice. The passport helps, and apart for having to apply for a visa for my former country of citizenship, I haven't had to get one for the 7 countries I've been to after becoming a citizen.

As for the naturalisation certificate, it really isn't on par with a US birth certificate. For one, if you lose the certified copy of your birth certificate, you can have a new one in one day for less than $20. The naturalisation certificate replacement process is a scam.

Of course, we'll never be equal to natural born Americans because we can never run for president (another scam in this day and age), so until that changes, if it ever will, we can all share the passport, SS card and DL with natural born Americans. I'd say this slew of documents, plus credit cards with shockingly high credit limits and car payments we can't afford make us as American as it gets.
 
As for the naturalisation certificate, it really isn't on par with a US birth certificate. For one, if you lose the certified copy of your birth certificate, you can have a new one in one day for less than $20.

And if you show a US birth certificate to any American, they'll know that it means you're a citizen (if it's genuine). They may be unable to evaluate whether it's genuine because of so many different-looking birth certificates across the country, but at least they know what it represents where citizenship is concerned. Whereas with the naturalization certificate some of them see it as just another type of paper immigrants have which proves they are "legal", but don't necessarily realize it means the certificate holder is a citizen.

On the other hand there are many Americans who think green card = citizenship.
 
Top