.
Along with Congress, I am certain that DOS can make decisions as to the DV rules. The point is 'immigrants' do not have the same rights as US citizens. So its a waste of their time and resources if they decide to sue. This is the point.
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Class Action Lawsuit vs Department of State
- Thread starter chamele0n
- Start date
Along with Congress, I am certain that DOS can make decisions as to the DV rules. The point is 'immigrants' do not have the same rights as US citizens. So its a waste of their time and resources if they decide to sue. This is the point.
I completely agree with cameleon. We may not have been promised a GC in this process, but we were promised FURTHER PROCESSING. This is what we fight for.
This was gross incompetence and a complete travesty of law and due process. There were people who are on F-1 (non-immigrant) visa status in the US and already sent documents for adjustment of status based on their DV-2012 CASE NUMBERS. These people have now expressed IMMIGRATION INTENT and will be out of status if their CASES and CASE NUMBERS are voided. DoS cannot say "This is just a lottery. Sorry for the inconvenience." They need to be held accountable.
We should at a minimum send FOIA requests to get information. The statistical data and the source code of the "flawed" algorithm should be released with an explanation of why a program that was used for 10 years suddenly became flawed, and why it wasn't tested in those 6 months from Nov until now. The victims of this gross incompetence need to be compensated somehow.
And to those here who didn't win and are laughing and think this is a joke and tell other people to relax, I can say only one thing -- "This is none of your business and you have no stake in this fight, so just shut up. You didn't win and you were not negatively affected in any way by this. Given the probabilities, you most likely won't win if there is a second drawing, so there is no reason to be happy and laughing except out of pure malice. If the misfortunate of others makes you happy, then I'm really sorry for you as human beings."
This was gross incompetence and a complete travesty of law and due process. There were people who are on F-1 (non-immigrant) visa status in the US and already sent documents for adjustment of status based on their DV-2012 CASE NUMBERS. These people have now expressed IMMIGRATION INTENT and will be out of status if their CASES and CASE NUMBERS are voided. DoS cannot say "This is just a lottery. Sorry for the inconvenience." They need to be held accountable.
We should at a minimum send FOIA requests to get information. The statistical data and the source code of the "flawed" algorithm should be released with an explanation of why a program that was used for 10 years suddenly became flawed, and why it wasn't tested in those 6 months from Nov until now. The victims of this gross incompetence need to be compensated somehow.
And to those here who didn't win and are laughing and think this is a joke and tell other people to relax, I can say only one thing -- "This is none of your business and you have no stake in this fight, so just shut up. You didn't win and you were not negatively affected in any way by this. Given the probabilities, you most likely won't win if there is a second drawing, so there is no reason to be happy and laughing except out of pure malice. If the misfortunate of others makes you happy, then I'm really sorry for you as human beings."
What kind of emotional distress? I understand "disappointment", and if it was me I would be upset too, BUT, a NL doesn't mean you get the GC and many people who enter a class action lawsuit IF any will be filed, will not receive a dime since they first have to be passing all criteria of the GC lottery and many of them won't pass it any way.
They will not do anything with the paperwork that already came in...they will destroy it, so don't worry. They are not stupid because that will set them up for a lawsuit. Why did it take so long to hear anything after the website went down?
You are right if you guess that USCIS had lawyers looking into the matter...and I bet you that some where in the small letters there will be a sentence stating that an online error can't be held against them...this is the USA, they are not stupid!
You are right if you guess that USCIS had lawyers looking into the matter...and I bet you that some where in the small letters there will be a sentence stating that an online error can't be held against them...this is the USA, they are not stupid!
nope, visas are distributed on a regional basis, & winning chances are not the same, just look at the buletins, you will see that the asian & oceanian case number are all very low, european goes up to 25 000 or 30 000 i guess while african goes up to 64 000... more african are picked
We have an equal chance of winning. However, the winning percentage allocated to each region is not the same.
What kind of emotional distress? I understand "disappointment", and if it was me I would be upset too, BUT, a NL doesn't mean you get the GC and many people who enter a class action lawsuit IF any will be filed, will not receive a dime since they first have to be passing all criteria of the GC lottery and many of them won't pass it any way.
What are you talking about? Are you serious? NL may not mean you get the GC if you are for some reason inadmissible but the fact is, majority of people that got NLs can easily prove their admissibility including overcoming Public Charge grounds and hence for most everybody a NL means a GC.
Anyway we here are talking about Due Process. Even non-immigrants are not animals to be treated like this. Besides, a random selection is what it is, random, even if the entire selection fell on people in one day or one hour, it still fits the definition of random, a random selection can be anything. They don't need to cancel the results because they don't look "random enough."
If the results are cancelled we must demand to know why this suddenly happened only this year. If they used the same algorithm in prior years it means every DV lottery selection has been faulty in years prior and hence PRIOR DIVERSITY VISA SELECTION RESULTS HAVE TO BE CANCELLED as well as they are not random and are against the law. A FOIA request will help us determine that.
Be careful, this might come back to bite you in the xxx if you are posting so hard to get us to stop talking about our rights as DV 2012 WINNERS.
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All those saying "NO I DON'T AGREE WITH MY DESTINY" is going against current of energy.
They did not support people screaming "re-draw the lottery" and now they are concerned showing full ignorance of morale and ethics.
You are like animals now, you care only for yourself. But you don't see big picture. That's the lottery being TOTALLY 100% CANCELLED FOR EVER.
Welcome the LAST DV-2012. Your last chance to paradise. Otherwise the punishment is poverty till the coffin time comes.
DV-2013 is at max. No more lotteries.
You had your first punishment and that's going to be the second one and the biggest.
I enjoyed this act of GOD so much I even started to see more colors around me and joy of life fulfied me.
Not because of the slight new chance of winning, but because of the justice that was set.
BECAUSE I'm not going to the USA for the money. It's for the rights, following the law, your actual freedom withing law, etc THat's what 70% of countries lack.
My H1-B is going to be ready pretty much soon. So it won't affect me. So I'm there anyways. All those who envied and being snakes - light will destroy you, when you die don't go for the light!!!
I can tell you what to do, how only a few people can overcome all those thousands frustrated. If I'm ever to create a thread. They are continously being erased.
Let me tell you something. I've been living in the US for 14 years. Yes.. you read that correctly -- 14 years. I've been legal all this time. I have 4 university degrees from this country, 2 of them advanced. I've had 3 H-1Bs and I'm still waiting for the laziest, most customer-hostile, and most incompetent government organization in the world--the USCIS, to process my employment-based petition for a green-card. You're just starting to get yourself into this mess, and I'm afraid to tell you so, but the rampant corruption, racism, and incompetence in the government agencies of this country will make you definitely rethink your daydreams about justice, freedom, and law.
With this DV lottery winning, some of us who won saw a chance to get out of this suffering, and now it was suddenly taken away. This isn't something new however--this is how things are run around here. If you don't believe me, look up the "July 2007 visa bulletin fiasco" and other such examples of incompetence (that also happened to me btw). The only way to resolve this is and to get some remedy is through lawsuits, petitions, letters to congresscritters, etc. Good luck with your H-1B, and welcome to the rat-maze! You will soon be in my shoes.
Hyperbole much? In what way are you treated like an animal?Anyway we here are talking about Due Process. Even non-immigrants are not animals to be treated like this.
If you found a wallet on the street, would you think the money inside belong to you, or would you try to find the owner to return it, or at least give it to the police to find the owner?
Sadly, most people will keep the money, but that is not the right thing.
In both cases you have not done anything illegal in finding the wallet or in being mistakenly told that you were selected. However, trying to hold onto that accidental windfall will deprive the rightful owner of it.
KCC cannot increase the number of visas because that number is stipulated by the Congress and cannot be changed on a whim. Most likely, the next changes approved by the Congress will be to terminate the program as it is now.
Drawing only 78K new selectees, again will deprive some people from a fair selection.
I know it is disappointing, but you are not losing anything which has been legitimately yours before. You will be part of the redraw like everybody else. It is as if we are back to April 30th before the results could be checked.
They did not cancel them because they did not look random enough. It is not a computer making decisions, but a program running on said computer.Besides, a random selection is what it is, random, even if the entire selection fell on people in one day or one hour, it still fits the definition of random, a random selection can be anything. They don't need to cancel the results because they don't look "random enough."
A software bug, be it algorithmic or just coding error, can be actually identified and confirmed as such. If the software was OK, they would not have cancelled.
Please go ahead with that request because I would like to know as well.If the results are cancelled we must demand to know why this suddenly happened only this year. If they used the same algorithm in prior years it means every DV lottery selection has been faulty in years prior and hence PRIOR DIVERSITY VISA SELECTION RESULTS HAVE TO BE CANCELLED as well as they are not random and are against the law. A FOIA request will help us determine that.
It is not clear that it is the same algorithm which they used in the past. What I know, is that last year the online status check had a bug, however the selection algorithm was fine. People received paper NLs, but the online status check was not working for all the selectees.
This year it is all online. It may be that they changed the program doing the selections, or it may be that just the online status check was broken. However, since the online status check is the only way to find if you were selected, that bug may have caused the entire mess.
It is unfortunate, but mistakes happen. In this case DOS took the difficult but correct decision. People complain that it is not fair, but it is a fair decision. Everybody will have an equal chance to get selected.
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Well, first of all, in previous lotteries not everybody had the same chance withing the region. There were some countries, like Ukraine, or Bangladesh, whose chance was different from others because of too much fraud in those countries. That had to be done because otherwise almost nobody from those countries could win. So, I am pretty sure there will be some exceptions to the equal chance, just because of limited technical possibilities of KCC.It is unfortunate, but mistakes happen. In this case DOS took the difficult but correct decision. People complain that it is not fair, but it is a fair decision. Everybody will have an equal chance to get selected.
Also, I am not 100% convinced DOS admitted an existing problem. There is still a chance there was not problem at all, and everything was well planned back in September 2010.
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chameleon....I don't want to stop you in any way, shape or form....please keep going strong and you will have to live with the results later on when your name is popping up....
I understand every ones frustration after you have learned you won and than your dream and reality is shedded...that is not to take lightly, BUT as many had stated, something looked to be very wrong and they were right.
How do you feel all the people who didn't win felt and would feel if it was done wrong.
Any one who wants to sue and ask for emotional distress will get a cold shower. This is not even a contract and even on contracts there is not "emotional distress" payments from lawsuits. You just need to know more about US Law.
90,000 people are now unhappy but millions were unhappy knowing something was wrong. How do you think a person entering for the 15th times would feel knowing that something was wrong and they didn't win again...I have read posts of people like that.
I'm here over a decade and have my own business and I'm writing here because I helped a friend in the past and being a foreigner moving over here I feel and know how hard it is to come to the USA and stay here if you can't get a visa like many people who want to stay here.
We have friends who have kids who been here for a year and asked us how they can stay here longer, but they have no job (could easily obtain a job and worked here for 1 year) and if they get a job it wouldn't qualify for a H1B visa so basically they have no possibility to get a visa unless they want to study here or start their own business something that not everybody wants to do. Telling someone to get maaried to stay here, is stupid and only stupid people will do. Not everybody wants to scam they system but they still like it here and would love to stay here. We had many going back after being here one year and wishing they could have stayed....
On the other hand many don't realize that life overhere is not always easy and even people with a GC have gone back (Europe) because after many years it wasn't what they expected although the first couple of years they loved it. Most people live for 4-5 years in some kind of dream and than start to see what is for real...For us it great overhere but we have witnessed the USA before 9/11 and after and things have changed.
I understand every ones frustration after you have learned you won and than your dream and reality is shedded...that is not to take lightly, BUT as many had stated, something looked to be very wrong and they were right.
How do you feel all the people who didn't win felt and would feel if it was done wrong.
Any one who wants to sue and ask for emotional distress will get a cold shower. This is not even a contract and even on contracts there is not "emotional distress" payments from lawsuits. You just need to know more about US Law.
90,000 people are now unhappy but millions were unhappy knowing something was wrong. How do you think a person entering for the 15th times would feel knowing that something was wrong and they didn't win again...I have read posts of people like that.
I'm here over a decade and have my own business and I'm writing here because I helped a friend in the past and being a foreigner moving over here I feel and know how hard it is to come to the USA and stay here if you can't get a visa like many people who want to stay here.
We have friends who have kids who been here for a year and asked us how they can stay here longer, but they have no job (could easily obtain a job and worked here for 1 year) and if they get a job it wouldn't qualify for a H1B visa so basically they have no possibility to get a visa unless they want to study here or start their own business something that not everybody wants to do. Telling someone to get maaried to stay here, is stupid and only stupid people will do. Not everybody wants to scam they system but they still like it here and would love to stay here. We had many going back after being here one year and wishing they could have stayed....
On the other hand many don't realize that life overhere is not always easy and even people with a GC have gone back (Europe) because after many years it wasn't what they expected although the first couple of years they loved it. Most people live for 4-5 years in some kind of dream and than start to see what is for real...For us it great overhere but we have witnessed the USA before 9/11 and after and things have changed.
Hyperbole much? In what way are you treated like an animal?
If you found a wallet on the street, would you think the money inside belong to you, or would you try to find the owner to return it, or at least give it to the police to find the owner?
Sadly, most people will keep the money, but that is not the right thing.
In both cases you have not done anything illegal in finding the wallet or in being mistakenly told that you were selected. However, trying to hold onto that accidental windfall will deprive the rightful owner of it.
KCC cannot increase the number of visas because that number is stipulated by the Congress and cannot be changed on a whim. Most likely, the next changes approved by the Congress will be to terminate the program as it is now.
Drawing only 78K new selectees, again will deprive some people from a fair selection.
I know it is disappointing, but you are not losing anything which has been legitimately yours before. You will be part of the redraw like everybody else. It is as if we are back to April 30th before the results could be checked.
They did not cancel them because they did not look random enough. It is not a computer making decisions, but a program running on said computer.
A software bug, be it algorithmic or just coding error, can be actually identified and confirmed as such. If the software was OK, they would not have cancelled.
Please go ahead with that request because I would like to know as well.
It is not clear that it is the same algorithm which they used in the past. What I know, is that last year the online status check had a bug, however the selection algorithm was fine. People received paper NLs, but the online status check was not working for all the selectees.
This year it is all online. It may be that they changed the program doing the selections, or it may be that just the online status check was broken. However, since the online status check is the only way to find if you were selected, that bug may have caused the entire mess.
It is unfortunate, but mistakes happen. In this case DOS took the difficult but correct decision. People complain that it is not fair, but it is a fair decision. Everybody will have an equal chance to get selected.
Except the the time, effort and cost of submitting the paperwork when we acted in good faith and trusted the result that were published.
I guess you probably one of those people who will never understand this.
Since the 1st of May, I've been reading a number of threads and forums about peoples opinions on the DV2012; and I've been resisting the urge to tell it like it is. Can't resist anymore; this thread has taken things too far. One would be forgiven to label the majority of you guys a bunch of whinning babies. You have chosen to forget that being issued with a visa to live in the US through the lottery is not your right! Being selected for further processingfor DV does not automatically translate to eventually being issued with a visa; the bucks stops with the Visa Officer.Thats why when DV selectees get denied visa for one reason or another, its final!! you cant take the visa officer or the consular to court. Being selected and issued with a visa is more of privilege! Its not like the family-sponsored visa process, where you can engage the services of a lawyer. A few days ago when they released the faulty results, some of you were advising those who had not been selected and were complaining hard that the selection process was not random to stop being whinning babies! Its about time you took heed of your own advise and stop this law suit crap.
1oo% agreed with ur comment. So perfect. Welldone bro.
Civil Rights organizations also very often bring cases on behalf of immigrants. Please see this list of PRO-IMMIGRANT Civil Rights organizations and write to them:
http://www.publiceye.org/research/directories/immig_grp_defend.html
http://www.publiceye.org/research/directories/immig_grp_defend.html
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CraigToomy
Banned
Fake winners are not immigrants.Civil Rights organizations also very often bring cases on behalf of immigrants.
How long will it take for this Lawsuit to be judged? By the time they will have even considered this, the new winners would have been announced.
This is just purely waste of time and resources.
If we prevail it would not matter what the deadline was for the original 50,000 visas. This year's deadline would not be applicable. Justice would be restored and courts would not allow some deadline to interfere with a court of law's decision. Internal administrative rules will not take precedence and turn a court hearing into a sham.
If we prevail it would not matter what the deadline was for the original 50,000 visas. This year's deadline would not be applicable. Justice would be restored and courts would not allow some deadline to interfere with a court of law's decision. Internal administrative rules will not take precedence and turn a court hearing into a sham.
Sweet dreams, keep on dreaming.
CraigToomy
Banned
Ew... Dude, you're sick. Call the best russian hospital asap.If I WOULD have mushrooms grow in my mouth
If we prevail it would not matter what the deadline was for the original 50,000 visas. This year's deadline would not be applicable. Justice would be restored and courts would not allow some deadline to interfere with a court of law's decision. Internal administrative rules will not take precedence and turn a court hearing into a sham.
The major word here is "IF" and it will always stay an "IF" because nobody is interested in 22,000 foreigners...who don't pay taxes and don't vote overhere....no lawyer is interested taking a case where no money is coming from and most people have money to pay the lawyers...sorry to bust your bubble.