If I get Citizenship, Is it a must to give green card back?

[Al Southner]

In any case if my Citizenship gets approved, I will talk to them to about holding on to the green card. But if they refuse to give me oath, then I will give it back. How does that sound? I will keep you all posted.

Thanks again!

Good luck trying that one on friend, I am certain that you are going to be rebuffed about such a request. The answer is going to be a resounding NO. USCIS won't enter into bargaining process with you, what they do is to act as if they are following the law, which in most they do. Just forget about keeping the greencard dude, no need for it and if you wanted to keep it, then you shouldn't have applied for US citizenship. The passport analogy was a clever one, but will fall flat on the face of a IO...

 

[Al Southner]

Take Ukraine, for example. They do not allow dual citizenship, but at the same time they do not revoke Ukrainian citizenship automatically. It sounds illogical, but it is true You are still considered Ukrainian citizen, but the consulate will not do anything for you if they know that you are a US citizen. For instance, to get a new passport from consulate, they need a copy of your GC. If you are an honest person (such as I am ), you will not send them a copy of GC because you are not an LPR anymore. But then you will not get the passport and will not be able to travel to Ukraine... unless you travel on a US passport... which is illegal because you are still a citizen of Ukraine... Hmm... Are you with me still?

If I want to renounce my Ukrainian citizenship, I will have to collect dozens of documents (some of which can only be obtained in Ukraine in person), spend $$$, travel to the district consulate and then wait for up to 2 years. I personally gave up during the stage of collecting documents because in order to get some of them, I would have to register with Ukrainian military service, obtain Ukrainian tax number and renew my internal Ukrainian passport. To do the above tasks, I would have to travel to Ukraine and spend several months there. I just can't spend that much time.

It sound like Ukraine is a fun place to live in, but ran by a bunch of nutty people. I thought Yushenko was going to bring some brains into country with this orange revolution, maybe the poison is too strong to have him change this law... Demands its citizens to be patriots, deny them the right to renouce their Ukranian citizenship? I was reading your post and a thought came to my mind, why would anyone subject another person to such an atrocious process to renounce citizenship? Unless your a mega billionaire who net worth is holding Ukranian economy from falling apart, then you should be free to renouce your citizenship.

I bet you won't be traveling to Ukraine for a long time...

 

[warlord]

It sound like Ukraine is a fun place to live in, but ran by a bunch of nutty people. I thought Yushenko was going to bring some brains into country with this orange revolution, maybe the poison is too strong to have him change this law... Demands its citizens to be patriots, deny them the right to renouce their Ukranian citizenship? I was reading your post and a thought came to my mind, why would anyone subject another person to such an atrocious process to renounce citizenship? Unless your a mega billionaire who net worth is holding Ukranian economy from falling apart, then you should be free to renouce your citizenship.

I bet you won't be traveling to Ukraine for a long time...

I had thought this is how it is in Uganda too and people have been detained there and told they had to enlist in the army because they are Ugandan citizens and illegally entered as US citizens. There was a case in the news I thought a few months ago about this happening...

 

[Al Southner]

Dude,

Uganda doesn't need anyone in the military, it will be best if it invested its human capital in trade schools, engineering and agricultural sectors, plus health care sector and teaching. Mr. Museveni ought to focus on improving the lives of many Ugandians, but as it is the case with most despot and warlords in Africa, their pockets comes first, belly seconds, extended families third and the poorest get what is coming to them, bread crumbs on the ground...

I can't phantom anyone being detained for the purposes of serving in the military, when thousands of people suffer from starvation and diseases...

 

[König]

It sound like Ukraine is a fun place to live in, but ran by a bunch of nutty people. I thought Yushenko was going to bring some brains into country with this orange revolution, maybe the poison is too strong to have him change this law...

Yuschenko brought hope, not brains. Turned out he could not run country efficiently just like his predecessors. I still think it was a better choice than Yanukovich who was supported by Putin. At least, they don't kill journalists anymore in Ukraine

Demands its citizens to be patriots, deny them the right to renouce their Ukranian citizenship? I was reading your post and a thought came to my mind, why would anyone subject another person to such an atrocious process to renounce citizenship?

You really had to live in the Soviet Union in order to understand why things work the way they do in Ukraine. In order to prevent people from doing something or at least reduce their desire to do something, bureaucratic machine kicks into action. You need to get document A? Sure, you can do it, but first you have to get documents B and C. Oh, you need document B? Please obtain document D. You need document D? ... and so on. Considering that you have to spend several hours in line to get each individual document, you can imagine how much time you need to spend for the entire ordeal. This is not a Ukrainian invention, this is our common heritage from USSR. Anyway, next time you hear about bribery problem in Ukraine, you will know why.

I bet you won't be traveling to Ukraine for a long time...

I will travel there because my grandma lives there and I have some other relatives. Actually, it is not the worst place in the world, believe it or not.

 

[WBH]

Yuschenko brought hope, not brains. Turned out he could not run country efficiently just like his predecessors. I still think it was a better choice than Yanukovich who was supported by Putin. At least, they don't kill journalists anymore in Ukraine

Don't be too hard. Most countries in this world are backward anyway
(economy, politice, etc) and only a few are not and basically those who
were relative backward 100 years ago are still backward now (otherwise
we would not see so many seeking immigration or citizenship of other
countries)

 

[sarrebal]

Reacquiring Ukrainian citizenship would be a major pain in the butt, and your wife would not get any real benefits from it. Going to Russia without visa is good (saves you some real $$$), but it would not be as safe as going there as an American. Ukraine and Russia have had some frictions for a long time, and sometimes Russian border officers take a liberty to mistreat Ukrainian travellers. My mother was unfortunate enough to experience such treatment twice.

Well, at least she would be able to work there. And an advertising professional with a US law degree who can speak fluent Russian (and write also) would definitely be attractive in Moscow.
Myself, I'd get my russian visa on my Italian passport (also the company I work for is an italian fashion company), not on the US one.

 

[sarrebal]

Yuschenko brought hope, not brains. Turned out he could not run country efficiently just like his predecessors. I still think it was a better choice than Yanukovich who was supported by Putin. At least, they don't kill journalists anymore in Ukraine


You really had to live in the Soviet Union in order to understand why things work the way they do in Ukraine. In order to prevent people from doing something or at least reduce their desire to do something, bureaucratic machine kicks into action. You need to get document A? Sure, you can do it, but first you have to get documents B and C. Oh, you need document B? Please obtain document D. You need document D? ... and so on. Considering that you have to spend several hours in line to get each individual document, you can imagine how much time you need to spend for the entire ordeal. This is not a Ukrainian invention, this is our common heritage from USSR. Anyway, next time you hear about bribery problem in Ukraine, you will know why.


I will travel there because my grandma lives there and I have some other relatives. Actually, it is not the worst place in the world, believe it or not.

Kiev is actually one of the most beautiful cities I've seen. And I've seen many.

 

[Vorpal]

No, you'll be required to present an official certificate ("spravka") issued by Russian authorities and showing that you gave up your Russian citizenship. The problem is that it is pretty difficult and expensive to get such a spravka (for example, one has to first get various documents from the tax authorities in Russia, which may be difficuly or impossible, etc).

Is this the case with every former Russian/Soviet citizen who applies for a visitor's visa? A few of my relatives, including my parents, have visited Russia in the recent years, and none of them mentioned any difficulties with getting a visa. If this is a newly implemented rule, is it a big enough headache to actually reconsider visiting?

 

[baikal3]

Is this the case with every former Russian/Soviet citizen who applies for a visitor's visa? A few of my relatives, including my parents, have visited Russia in the recent years, and none of them mentioned any difficulties with getting a visa. If this is a newly implemented rule, is it a big enough headache to actually reconsider visiting?

My understanding is that basically the rule applies to everyone who has ever Russian citizenship before. I think the rule has been on the books for a while, but since April of this year Russia has implemented new, considerably tighter, regulations for issuance of Russian passports. When I was at the Russian consulate in San Francisco in July, they said that they are going to start enforcing the visa rule more stringently as well.
However, I am not sure what the reality of it is or will be, since in Russia there is always a big disconnect between formal rules (such as they are) and the reality of the situation. It is quite possible that if one applies for a visa not directly but through one of the intermediary firms, they might be able to skirt these regulations in practice.

 

[König]

Is this the case with every former Russian/Soviet citizen who applies for a visitor's visa?

If the consulate sees that the place of birth in the US passport is Russia, then they will most likely want to see some proof that a person renounced Russian citizenship. If one was born in Russia but automatically became a citizen of Ukraine, Belarus, etc during the collapse of Soviet Union, then one will need to show the proof of former/current citizenship of that republic.

As for Ukraine, it does not require visa from US citizens. In reality, many Ukrainian/US citizens travel to Ukraine on their US passports in violation of Ukrainian law, and nobody seems to care.

 

[Vorpal]

Thanks for the response, guys. Since I was a kid when my family immigrated to the U.S., I don't even know where to begin looking for the document that proves renunciation of Russian citizenship. Any thoughts?

 

[baikal3]

Thanks for the response, guys. Since I was a kid when my family immigrated to the U.S., I don't even know where to begin looking for the document that proves renunciation of Russian citizenship. Any thoughts?

I think you'd need to contact one of the Russian consulates in the U.S. and ask them.

As I remember, people who emigrated from the USSR until about 1990 were required to give up their Soviet citizenship and, I assume, they were given some sort of document regarding this. You might want to ask your parents if they have one of those...

 

[Vorpal]

I think you'd need to contact one of the Russian consulates in the U.S. and ask them.

As I remember, people who emigrated from the USSR until about 1990 were required to give up their Soviet citizenship and, I assume, they were given some sort of document regarding this. You might want to ask your parents if they have one of those...

Makes sense. My family came here in 1989, so maybe my parents have the documents of renunciation.

 

[sarrebal]

As for Ukraine, it does not require visa from US citizens. In reality, many Ukrainian/US citizens travel to Ukraine on their US passports in violation of Ukrainian law, and nobody seems to care.

My wife did that, and this was the conversation on our exit with the immigration officer (who was a lady very soviet looking, you know what I mean).
I was missing the entry stamp (they forgot, I didn't notice), so she was suspicious.
Then she asked my wife: "Kuda te doish"
My wife: "Tel Aviv"
Officer: "Pochimu Tel Aviv?"
My wife: "Prosta"

That was it. Kinda funny. And my wife US passport clearly shows as place of birth "Ukraine".

 

[sarrebal]

Makes sense. My family came here in 1989, so maybe my parents have the documents of renunciation.

My parents-in-law (who left in 1992, so it could be different) have a stamp in their old USSR passport which says that they were immigrating out of the country.
I believe that's proof of renounciation.
But if you're still a citizen, then I suggest you to keep it, why not?
I have a couple of dual US/Russia dual citizens that go back and forth (with work too) and seem to enjoy it.

 

[WBH]

My parents-in-law (who left in 1992, so it could be different) have a stamp in their old USSR passport which says that they were immigrating out of the country.
I believe that's proof of renounciation.

Immigration does not mean citizenship change. Getting the GC or travelling to uSA on immigration visa is immigration to USA but citizenship is not chaanged.

Of course in particular case of your parents in laws that depends upon
how their old country intrepreted what it means by "immigrating
out of the country"

 

[Uncle Joe]

Immigration does not mean citizenship change. Getting the GC or travelling to uSA on immigration visa is immigration to USA but citizenship is not chaanged.

Of course in particular case of your parents in laws that depends upon
how their old country intrepreted what it means by "immigrating
out of the country"

Passport USSR with Exit Visa stamp means this passport is non-renewable, and person lost his/her Soviet citizenship at border control at Sheremet'evo 2 Airport. Believe or not, but back in the days 70s-80s and early 90s iIf you want to leave Soviet Union(early Russia) you need a memorandum from KGB which is authorizing you to go overseas. In order to get that memorandum you have to bring A,B,C..... memos from different authorities. And at the same time to get those memos you have to get more memos from somewhere. All process could take a couple of years. After you getting Exit Visa and have your passport stamped by the border control, you are stateless

 

[Vorpal]

My parents-in-law (who left in 1992, so it could be different) have a stamp in their old USSR passport which says that they were immigrating out of the country.
I believe that's proof of renounciation.
But if you're still a citizen, then I suggest you to keep it, why not?
I have a couple of dual US/Russia dual citizens that go back and forth (with work too) and seem to enjoy it.

My parents came here as refugees, so I'm certain that they had to renounce their citizenship. As a result, my entire family was stateless. I guess I should speak to my folks about documentation proving renunciation of citizenship.

 

[DreamUSA]

practical approach is to contact a respective embassy to discuss the matter..