3 years degree EB3, 140 at NSC - please advice

lex_ind said:
Gurus,

I stumbled across this thread, and the reason I am posting here is because I am in same boat as you guys are. I've 3-year Bachelors degree from India and a 3-year diploma.

After reading the issue with the 3-year degree I sent an email to my company's lawyer sharing my concerns. She replied back saying that my labor certification was prepared having the fact that I have a three year degree in mind. She also mentioned that the law firm have provided a formula on the application stating that the three year of academic studies plus two years of experience would be acceptable to the employer as an alternative to the Bachelor's Degree requirement.

I have file copy of the ETA-750 Part B. But, I don't have access to ETA-750 Part A. I've to go through my company's bureaucratic hurdles to get that. In the meantime I've couple of questions:
1. Does the formula on the application (3yr academic studies + 2yr experience) helps?
2. If I want to be more cautious and proactive, what are my options?

Thanks,
Lex
Thank you Anilt75 for the response.

I just got reply from lawyer about line no. 14 and 15 of ETA 750 Part A. Here is verbiage that they have used:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two
years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a
Bachelor's degree..


Gurus,

I stumbled across this thread, and the reason I am posting here is because I am in same boat as you guys are. I've 3-year Bachelors degree from India and a 3-year diploma.

After reading the issue with the 3-year degree I sent an email to my company's lawyer sharing my concerns. She replied back saying that my labor certification was prepared having the fact that I have a three year degree in mind. She also mentioned that the law firm have provided a formula on the application stating that the three year of academic studies plus two years of experience would be acceptable to the employer as an alternative to the Bachelor's Degree requirement.

I have file copy of the ETA-750 Part B. But, I don't have access to ETA-750 Part A. I've to go through my company's bureaucratic hurdles to get that. In the meantime I've couple of questions:
1. Does the formula on the application (3yr academic studies + 2yr experience) helps?
2. If I want to be more cautious and proactive, what are my options?

Thanks,
Lex
 
Degree evaluations and http://foreignconsultants.com

Please avoid using services of from www.foreignconsultants.com for any degree evaluations (3 and 4 years). They ask you to fax across all degree transcripts and then don't respond back at all despite numerous phone calls and voice-mails.

I am surprised and bewildered how they are in business without providing even decent customer service. I would strongly recommed staying away from such degree evaluation companies. Please let me know if anybody has used the services of www.foreignconsultants.com and had similar experiences.
 
Lex,

lex_ind said:
Thank you Anilt75 for the response.

I just got reply from lawyer about line no. 14 and 15 of ETA 750 Part A. Here is verbiage that they have used:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two
years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a
Bachelor's degree..

--It's nicely worded job requirement by your attorney. However, consider the 2 types of RFE's people have been getting:

1) Case of combining experience and other certificates to equate to BS degree and mentioning it in the special requirements section of ETA form(using the verbiage similar to yours):

RFE (my own interpretation).

"Unlike H1B criterion, combination of experience or other certificates to show equivalency toward B.S degree is not allowed. Degree must be from a single source(one certificate from one institution) and it must be equivalent to 4-year Bachelor's degree as mentioned in ETA form."


2) Case of combining experience and other certificates to equate to B.S degree and not mentioning anything in the special requirements:

RFE (my own interpretation):

"USCIS acknowledges candidate's credentials. However, it is not specifically mentioned in the ETA form that the combination of experience and other eduational certificates would be acceptable for the given job requirement."

Based on few stories that I have read so far, I have observed this inconsistent pattern of RFE's wrt 3-year degrees at I-140 level.

Its very difficult to say which option could best work for you. USCIS doesnt know what they want and makes it even worse with such RFEs as mentioned above.

Since it is already mentioned in the ETA form that you are combining education and experience, IMO, you have to just try and see what happens. As a backup option, you might want to start GC process again with some other employer. DO NOT TRY TO EQUATE ANYTHING TO A BACHELOR'S DEGREE THIS TIME. It is possible to get GC based on education alone or experience alone or combination of both.But never attempt to equate sum of credentials to one credential. Although smartly worded, this is the "mistake" your lawyer apparently made.

To make you feel better. Cases like yours, I have seen almost 3 out of 5 cases getting approved. Some on the first go. Some after the RFE.

You may still want to consider other options by exploring all the resources possible.

Good luck.
 
AnilT75:

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately I don't have option of starting the labor process again as I am on my 7th year extension. Even if I had that option, I would run into the same problem during the I-140 stage. Bottom line, I think I just have to wait and see what happens. My labor is still not approved, so it's long way before they adjudicate on educational requirements in labor.

I asked my company's lawyer to provide me Line no. 14 of the ETA-750A. Here is the verbiage they have used:

Bachelor's Degree or equivalent in Computer Science, Engineering (Any), Math, Business Administration, Information Technology and four years of experience as a Consultant or Analyst.

As I listed in my previous post, Line no. 15 is as follows:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a Bachelor's degree.

Lex
 
Lex,

"Unfortunately I don't have option of starting the labor process again as I am on my 7th year extension. "

--I do understand your situation. I am in the same boat. Like I said in the previous post, I have seen some cases get approved after an RFE. Column 14 and 15 had exact same words.

Although there is nothing much you can do. Dont loose hopes.

(Remember one thing though.It is possible to start GC process even while you are in 7th year.)

--Good luck.
 
Degree evaluations and http://foreignconsultants.com

unitednations said:
Be careful with slander/libel.

This is h-1b season and many of the evaluators are extremely busy evaluating degrees for h-1b purposes. Just imagine the exposure of the immigration boards for this issue (3 year vs 4 year degree) and the volume of people who may have contacted them.

If someone took your money and didn't do anything then that is a problem.


---They charge huge sums for a simple evaluation, don't reply for weeks about what's happening with the status of the application, then tell they cannot evaluate your documents and finally don't refund the money. This is a shady company and one needs to stay away. They lack the professionalism displayed by some other evaluation companies.
 
lex_ind said:
AnilT75:

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately I don't have option of starting the labor process again as I am on my 7th year extension. Even if I had that option, I would run into the same problem during the I-140 stage. Bottom line, I think I just have to wait and see what happens. My labor is still not approved, so it's long way before they adjudicate on educational requirements in labor.

I asked my company's lawyer to provide me Line no. 14 of the ETA-750A. Here is the verbiage they have used:

Bachelor's Degree or equivalent in Computer Science, Engineering (Any), Math, Business Administration, Information Technology and four years of experience as a Consultant or Analyst.

As I listed in my previous post, Line no. 15 is as follows:

*Employer will accept three years of university level studies plus two years of progressively responsible work experience as equivalent to a Bachelor's degree.

Lex

---
I think you should be fine. Mine got approved last week. I have BSc(Math) degree with 8 years of exp.
 
Got hope?

I guess my case is of the "desperate" kind...
My LC is pending in Philly with BS+0 requirements. I have 2 years degrees + 7 years experience at the time of filing. Lawyers put no mention whatsoever in box 15 of the ETA-750...
Plus, I understand that as of 04/01/06, all I-140 go through NSC "the terrible"...

Does anybody know anyone in this case who got 140 approved? All that after over 4 years of waiting... :(
 
3 yr degree

Hello All,

My employer filed my PERM and now it is approved. I have 3 yrs comp science degree from India and no other degrees other than 10 yrs of experience. After i read all about this 3 year degree issues, I am sacred about 140. What should I do? I do not know how my employer mentioned in the PERM application. They are not giving me that info, they just said PERM is approved so 140 will be too. What are all the risks involved in 140 stage. Please guys let me know.

Thanks
 
austin_desi

You can contact Sheila Denzig at www.thedegreepeople.com and request your 3 year degree to be evaluated to 4 year US Bachelors equivalent. There is a good possibility that NSC would accept this evaluation and approve your I-140.

NSC is highly unpreditable in the manner of I-140 approvals and maybe the above mentioned evaluation may work from you.
 
RIR question

I have a RIR application pending in Dallas Backlog elimination center for over one year. The educational requirement written on the labor application is

15A- Bachelors (Or foreign equivalent)
15B- Computer sceince, MIS, Electronics


I have 3 year degree + 2yrs MBA + 13 years of experience.
What are the chances of getting I-140 approved? By the way this will be my 3rd I-140 !
 
I-140 approved in EB2

Hi All,

My I-140 was approved in the EB2 category after 2 RFE's due to my 3 yr degree. :)

I have a B.Sc + M.C.M from Pune University. The NSC had issued an RFE in Oct 2005 about my Master's not being equivalent to a US Master's. There was no mention in the first RFE about my Bachelors not being equivalent. My attorney replied with marksheets of my Master's degree as well as expert opinion letters from a couple of Professors that explained that a Master's degree from Pune University is considered equivalent to a MS from the US for admission to a doctorate program.

The NSC issued another RFE in Feb 2006 saying that my Bachelor's was not equivalent to a US Bachelor's since my B.SC was a 3 yr degree and my major during the B.Sc was not Math/Engineering. My attorney believed that the NSC was setting me up for a denial.

After reading this forum, I informed my attorney about Sheila Danzig. My attorney got an evaluation report and expert opinion letter from Sheila that basically evaluated my B.Sc as equivalent to a BS from the USA. I was happy to pay 850 bucks for this evaluation as I believed it would help my case.

Unfortunately, Sheila did not respond to my attorney's requests to change the wording of the evaluation report (which my attorney said was "poorly worded"). According to my attorney, she was being "difficult" and not was not returning calls.

Around the same time, my attorney discovered that the Sheila has been investigated for fraud. (Do a google search on "Sheila Danzig aka Liz Ross").

My attorney decided NOT to use Sheila's report and asked me to get a letter from my College in India that listed the subjects I studies during the 3 years of my B.Sc along with the contact hours (classroom + practicals) for each subject. I was able to obtain this letter within a week. The letter clearly showed that I had taken a total of 12 Math courses over a 2 year period.

My attorney submitted this letter along with an explanation that since I had taken 12 Math courses, it was as good as a major.

The NSC recieved the reply to the RFE on the 3rd of May and my approval letter was mailed on the 8th of May.

I personally know two guys who have obtained approvals on their I-140's after using evaluations from Sheila. While I have no regrets about paying Sheila for the report that was eventually not used, I do believe now that her evaluation is NOT essential for getting an apporoval in such cases.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!
 
gulabjamun2 said:
Hi All,

Around the same time, my attorney discovered that the Sheila has been investigated for fraud. (Do a google search on "Sheila Danzig aka Liz Ross").

Let the debate start.....
 
Sheila's evaluation service

NSC is highly un-predicatable in the way it handles I-140 cases. I strongly believe in using whatever resources are available to provide NSC strong education evidence even if that requires spending $850 and above to get a good education evaluation and have the case approved. Besides there are very few options for somebody who is confronted with NSC's I-140 educational RFEs for 3 year degrees.

None of the other evaluation company other than www.thedegreepeople.com are even ready to provide an evalution for 3 year Bachelors degree to 4 year US equivalent. Just try talking to WES and they would not even bother to respond to you.
 
I have a 3 year degree + GNIIT Diploma
Applied I140 TSC and got an RFE saying my credential evaluation was not right.
I got my Education evaluation back in 2001 and they evaluated 3 year degree + GNIIT = US Bachelors Degree.
After getting RFE i contacted lot of educ eval agencies for educ eval and no one was ready
to show 3 year + GNIIT = US Bachelors. Finally i found in this forum about Sheila Danzig (the degreepeople dot com). Finally i have decided to do education evaluation by her. She did an excellent job in showing 3 year degree as equivalent to US Bachelors degree. My case got approved in EB2 (TSC).

Its a little expensive to get the education evaluation thru her but i think its worth it (atleast in my case it was worth it). She did an excellent job. The supporting documentation was also perfect. She gave me Course by course evaluation + Expert Opinion letter + supporting documentation (250 Pages). I have sent all the documentation provided and replied to RFE.

Please do your own research on 3 year degree. This is not an advt for sheila danzig. Each case is different and nobody guarantees if this edu eval works. It worked for me and i am sharing my experiences with you just to help. Please dont make me responsible if it doesnt work in your case. Each case is different and need to consult an experienced attorney before proceeding.

If you need more info let me know i can give my contact and we can discuss.
 
calls not returned?

gulabjamun2 said:
Hi All,
Unfortunately, Sheila did not respond to my attorney's requests to change the wording of the evaluation report (which my attorney said was "poorly worded"). According to my attorney, she was being "difficult" and not was not returning calls.
Cheers!

I don't post often and do not want to use this forum to promote my firms services.

It is hard for me to respond to this because it is annonymous.

I can say that there have been no unreturned calls if a message and phone number have been left. Nor have we ever been difficult about changing any wording that has been given to us. Anyone who has called us has always been called back. Any attorney making a legitimate request for a wording change has been accomodated. I work with numerous lawyers and not one has ever complained. I would like to address this with this particular poster and attorney if they will please call me 1.800.771.4723 to discuss this further because I would like to get to the bottom of this situation.

I am available to talk to anyone about these or any matters concerning credential evaluations. I offer a free consultation to anyone who emails or calls.

We have never said we have the only answer to the 3 year degree situation and we are always open to learning other ways to handle it. I truly welcome the day when the 3 year degree is automatically treated as equivalent to the US bachelor's degree just as the UK degree is.

Sheila Danzig
info at cci123 dot com
 
Sheila R Danzig said:
I truly welcome the day when the 3 year degree is automatically treated as equivalent to the US bachelor's degree just as the UK degree is.

I do not need to tell you this. But for the record UK's three years degree needs 16 years of education where as Indian three years degree is of total 15 years of education. That is what NSC is saying.
 
tammy2 said:
I do not need to tell you this. But for the record UK's three years degree needs 16 years of education where as Indian three years degree is of total 15 years of education. That is what NSC is saying.

How does TSC approving 15 years education (Sheila's evaluation). I thought ALL service centers follow the same rules, law and uniform policy. Can we show TSC approvals of these cases to NSC? OR sue them for descrimination?
 
Information on 3 year degree from www.immigration-law.com

Here is a section from Q/A section of www.immigration-law.com

Q-87 (06-05-2006): My question is related to the previous Q&A 86. I am also an Indian professional who earned a bachelor degree in science which is a three-year program. I earned more courses and the foreign credential evaluation agency has given me a report of "equivalent to a U.S. bachelor's degree." I had 12 years of education before I was admitted to the Bachelor of Scienece program in India. Indian education system in part adopts the British education system. The three-year Bachelor of Science degree in Britain is evaluated by the foreign credential evaluation and the universities in the U.S. as equivalent to a U.S. bachelor's degree. Because of this background, some graduation programs in the U.S. universities accepted the Indian BS degree satifying the requirement for admission to the graduate program. Additionally, some Service Centers accepted such three-year Indian BS degree being equivalent to the U.S. bachelor's degree. In this regard, the Indian single BS degree should satisfy the regulatory requirement. Why is the Indian BS degree rejected by the USCIS?

A-87: Indeed there were some commercial foreign credential evaluation businesses that advertised such credential evaluations. In a very few cases, the Service Centers were confused and accepted such evaluation. Lately such evaluation is generally rejected by the agencies, particularly after the release of a recent memorandum by the USCIS HQ. The memorandum distinguished the European three-year BS degree program from the Indian three-year BS degree program in that the admission to the European BS degree program generally requires 13 years of education before admission to the BS degree program. Obviously such education system allows additional specialty programs in the BS degree program, which make it closer to the U.S. BS degree program. Accordingly, the memorandum clarified that such European three-year degree would continuously be accepted as U.S. bachelor degree equivalency. Accordingly the holders of similar bachelor's degree in Britain and India will be treated different in the EB-2 green card proceedings. Some disagrees to the USCIS views which is enunciated in the said memorandum, but until the memorandum is struck down or the USCIS HQ revisits the issue, the immigrants are stuck with the standards in the memorandum.

Q-86 (06-04-2006): I am an Indian Financial Manager working for a large corporation in Los Angeles. The news on the comprehensive immigration reform legislation frustrates me very much and I will have to live with the current situation of employment-based immigration proceeding. Considering the visa retrogression, I will have to file EB-2 PERM application. I earned a three-year business degree and two-year post-graduate diploma in business administration in India. A foreign credential evaluation agency gave me the credential evaluation report for the purpose of H-1B filing that my credential is equivalent to a bachelor's degree in business plus a master's degree in business. I have eight years of work experience as a financial manager in India before I joined this company in LA. The employer is thinking about requiring a MBA equivalent or Bachelor in Business equivalent plus five years of work experience as a financial manager in the PERM application. I suppose this will do for the EB-2 track in the immigration petition once the PERM application is approved. Any comment?

A-86: The USCIS launched the bi-specialization program effective April 1, 2006. Under this program, all the I-140 petitions are filed with the Nebraska Service Center and these I-140 petitions are divided between the NSC and TSC half and half. Accordingly, even if your job is located in LA, your I-140 petition will be ended up with either NSC or TSC, meaning that the chance of your I-140 petition being adjudicated by the NSC under their standards is at least 50:50. The NSC standards on these issues are known to be most restrictive and narrow and have produced massive I-140 denials for Indians in the past. They religiously follow the non-binding precedent decision of the USCIS appeal unit of AAO. Thus NSC has been taking a position that for the purpose of EB-2 petition, Master's degree requirement must be proven by the alien with a single bachelor's degree and a single master's degree. Combination of two or three different educational degrees have generally been rejected by the NSC. The AAO decision is based on the specific language in the regulation that EB-2 requires an advanced degree or "a" bachelor's degree plus five years of progressive experience. The decision did not accept combination or multiple-degree equivalency evaluation. This leads to the second question of requiring bachelor's degree plus five years of work experience in the labor certification application. For the purpose of EB-3, the NSC accepts "bachelor's degree" or "equivalent credential by combination of multiple degrees or combination of a degree and work experience" inasmuch as the labor certification application specifically stated that the employer would accept such equivalency in lieu of a bachelor's degree. Besides, even if the employer did not state that the employer would accept such equivalent combination, the employer could still get approval of EB-3 I-140 petition inasmuch as the I-140 petition stated that the petition was for a position of "professional or skilled worker." Since EB-3 is qualified by either a professional "or" skilled worker, from the perspectives of the alien, it did not matter whether one got EB-3 I-140 petition either through a professional position or skilled position. Both professional and skilled worker also belong to the same EB-3 category for the purpose of the immigrant visa number allocation. However, this does not work with the EB-2 situation. Even if the employer stated in the labor certification application such, the NSC will not take such application for EB-2 category for the purpose of I-140 petition. Since a job in the labor certification application should require a bachelor's or equivalent foreign degree plus five years of progressive experience to make it a EB-2, combinational of multiple degrees for a bachelor's degree equivalency or combination of degree and experience, no matter whether the employer stated in the application that it would accept such combination, will be rejected by the NSC. AILA has repeatedly asked the USCIS HQ to address this issue but no memorandum has been released by the USCIS HQ on this critical issue thus far. VSC started adopting the NSC's narrow view recently, but this does not matter any more as VSC has no jurisdiction over the I-140 petitions. TSC has been taking a liberal view on this issue. TSC is also taking a liberal view on the employer's financial ability to pay the proffered wage issue which the NSC also took a very narrow view and has denied en masse I-140 petitions on this issue as well. Because of these differences, some people started tracking down so-called "TSC-day" vs "NSC-day" and timed the filing of I-140 petitions such that the case is handled by the TSC. At this time, once the I-140 petitions are received at the NSC, it splits the files every other day. Accordingly, if this is NSC-day, then all the I-140 petitions which are received on that day are handled by itself and all the I-140 petitions which are received the next day are shipped to the TSC. Wise guys and gals were successful in figuring out the NSC-day and the TSC-day. But no one knows how long this arrangement will last. Additionally, these Service Centers can adopt different policies and making TSC standards tougher than that of NSC! The best policy is to try to meet the narrower standards and views of the NSC as best as you can to get the I-140 petition approved. In the instant case, the chance of getting EB-2 I-140 approval for your credential background is not too promising if this case is handled by the NSC.
 
Sheila R Danzig said:
I can say that there have been no unreturned calls if a message and phone number have been left. Nor have we ever been difficult about changing any wording that has been given to us. Anyone who has called us has always been called back. Any attorney making a legitimate request for a wording change has been accomodated. I work with numerous lawyers and not one has ever complained. I would like to address this with this particular poster and attorney if they will please call me 1.800.771.4723 to discuss this further because I would like to get to the bottom of this situation.

Hi Sheila,

As I have stated in my previous message, I have absolutely no regrets about getting a credentials evaluation from you since I was sure that it would help my case.

Let me state again that I personally know two guys who have used your services and whose cases have been approved by the NSC. In fact I ordered your evaluation only after communication with these two gentlemen.

I believe the evaluation you prepared for my case was very good. Unfortunately, my attorney did not see it the same way. I do not wish to end up in a "he said - she said" situation by giving you my attorney's contact.

For this community, I would like to point out that Sheila's evaluation has worked in the past. Her evaluation is tailored for your specific situation and I don't see why it should not work for you.
 
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