Worked W/O CIS Permission during F-1 - any prob during CZ ?

Handsome1,
Follow to your lawyer. It is not that big of a crime. My husband came here F1 and have worked 3 year while on F1.Though he was getting paid by cash so they can not track it. While he was working illegally, he got caught selling alcohole to a minor. Ofcourse he didn't do it intentionally. He had to apear in court. Court fined him about $200 bucks and let him go. The judge did made a remark to him that he knows he was working illegally but he is letting him go.
So I would say if you will lie to them, it will be a bigger crime than what it is rightnow. Ask you lawyer what category the INS people put this kind of crime in.
 
Here is the exact wording/response from my attorney.

"At citizenship time, the questions relate to activity and travel AFTER the GC was issued. Matters preceeding the GC are not discussed unless you were convicted of some crime."

"we did not tell or say anything false during the adjustment
process. They did not ask about your F-1 so we simply did not tell them".
 
Handsome1 said:
Here is the exact wording/response from my attorney.

"At citizenship time, the questions relate to activity and travel AFTER the GC was issued. Matters preceeding the GC are not discussed unless you were convicted of some crime."

"we did not tell or say anything false during the adjustment
process. They did not ask about your F-1 so we simply did not tell them".

Don't get confuse with different opinions. Just follow your attorney's advice and keep a copy of this letter. You will be fine. Good luck.
 
Handsome1 said:
Here is the exact wording/response from my attorney.

"At citizenship time, the questions relate to activity and travel AFTER the GC was issued. Matters preceeding the GC are not discussed unless you were convicted of some crime."

"we did not tell or say anything false during the adjustment
process. They did not ask about your F-1 so we simply did not tell them".

That's encouraging information. However, you might want to show your attorney the recent postings here about sony55's N-400 denial because of some issues with F-1 status that occurred before his green card. That experience shows that in at least one recent case, they did dig into "matters preceding the GC."
 
I do not think Sony55 & my case is similiar. Here is what Sony55 quoted & the reason for CIS to dig into the matter is very obvious.

"i have gotten married about 13 months after entering the country on F-1 visa. also, i did my adjustment of status through a good attorney, and i didn't lie about my out of status thing. i disclosed it. but as i see the issue here, they say that i "lied" under oath, because they concluded that when i originally entered the states in 1999, i didn't have any intention in attending school, as if i had the intention to get into the country through that visa then immigrate and stay in the country. which what happened, but not intentionally". ... Sony55

Here is another comment to support what my lawyer said.
"I don't think in I-485 they ask a question like

'Have you ever been out of status?'

(Please correct me if I am wrong)

They certainly ask about Employment history...I am a bit confused about the reason they gave...if there is no question in I-485 that specifically asks about status (like the one I mentioned above), how can USCIS say that he lied during the adjustment of status phase?" By va1234

To my understanding, it got denied not because he lied (actually he did not because he said, "i did my adjustment of status through a good attorney, and i didn't lie about my out of status thing. i disclosed it".

Acutally it got denied 'coz CIS questioned about his intention (per Sony55 "because they concluded that when i originally entered the states in 1999, i didn't have any intention in attending school, as if i had the intention to get into the country through that visa then immigrate and stay in the country").

Hope it helps....
 
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Sony's case was denied because they presume he lied about his intent when he applied for the student visa. Since he did not follow by entering the university and instead married, they assume that his intent at the time of application for the F-1 was to marry. This is an immigrant intent. An applicant for a non-immigrant visa must not have immigrant intent.

-Ocelot
 
My point was that this was an example where they did dig into matters that preceded the GC (irrespective of the issues raised, such as in-status, out-of-status, employment on F-1, immigration intent on F-1), while your attorney basically told you they wouldn't / don't in any case. I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, just advising "proceed with caution" since you don't have a clean background.

You might seek out Ron Gotcher's opinion on this at http://immigration-information.com/forums/index.php (though he usually won't answer your question if you mention you are already represented by an attorney).
 
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CIS did not dig into the matter rather this info was provided to them by Sony as open book. There is no way Sony could hide this info. His journey was from F-1 to marriage to USC without attending college at all. That's a big O Red flag right there. CIS officers do not have to be rocket scientist or dig into the matter to find out his intention. I do have sympathy for Sony, i understood the financial condition which prevented attending school at that time. But CIS is not getting that point rather following their book.
 
I had my interview on Tuesday, July 26th. When the officer asked about past violations, I mentioned my driving tickets. I am thankful that I have been reading JoeF's posts all this time about honesty because I then mentioned I was a 245(i) case. She started questioning me about that: Did not go to school for a bit while on F-1, etc etc and she noted it down. I then apologized to her for not noting that down on my original application as I was under the impression that only violations after the green card were to be listed (Like I said, I only realized I had to disclose everything after reading posts here). She accepted that apology and moved on.

She approved my naturalization petition anyway. But the point is, she did write it down and she did question me as to why I was a 245(i). In case anyone needed to know, I was a 245(i) case because I didn't go to school for a semester while I was on D/S status after legally entering the country on an F-1 visa.

Bottom line:

1) Honesty is the best policy...
2) She only started smiling after question 23... I guess that meant that the worst was over! ;-)
 
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afiguere said:
I had my interview on Tuesday, July 26th. When the officer asked about past violations, I mentioned my driving tickets. I am thankful that I have been reading JoeF's posts all this time about honesty because I then mentioned I was a 245(i) case. She started questioning me about that: Did not go to school for a bit while on F-1, etc etc and she noted it down. I then apologized to her for not noting that down on my original application as I was under the impression that only violations after the green card were to be listed (Like I said, I only realized I had to disclose everything after reading posts here). She accepted that apology and moved on.

She approved my naturalization petition anyway. But the point is, she did write it down and she did question me as to why I was a 245(i). In case anyone needed to know, I was a 245(i) case because I didn't go to school for a semester while I was on D/S status after legally entering the country on an F-1 visa.

Bottom line:

1) Honesty is the best policy...
2) She only started smiling after question 23... I guess that meant that the worst was over! ;-)


i told my interview officer about my speeding ticket, and she asked me why i did not put on the form. i said i did not know. then she asked, how did you find out you had to inlcude the traffic ticketS? i told her "i read from the net".
 
Afiguere was questioned about status violation 'coz he filed 245(i) which means the applicant was out of status so they had question it. Last night i read again 485 questions, it does not ask any F-1 status question. So it means I never lied to CIS on 485. Basically the simple conclusion is just what my attorney said, they did not ask so we never told them.

Okay let assume the worst thing happen, i get caught about the violation. CIS deny CZ application. Now question is whether CIS gonna revoke the GC. If not, am I eligible to apply for CZ ever?. Has this happened to anyone, please let us know.
 
Hi ocworker and afiguere and everyone:

When the interviewing officer asked about traffic violations (that you had not mentioned on the citizenship application); did the officer add them in the applicaiton?

My question is:

If you do not mention the violations on the initial application and officer asks during inteview and you disclose it and the officer does not add that to the application saying traffic violations (non DUI /DWI) are not a big issue (some officers do not add the information); and approves your application and you become citizen.

Years later is it possible, that you may have a brush with law and at that time they check you thoroughly and that that BCIS /INS can raise this issue and say that you did not disclose traffic violations (non DUI / DWI) and try to cancel your citizenship?

Please reply. Thanks in advance
 
I have consulted with second attorney. Let me summerized the two attorneys' opinon.
1) Do not anticipate any prob during CZ, coz he believes we did not lie, we were not asked so we never disclosed anything, if no crime involve CIS will not dig into the matter. He also offered (for my peace of mind) to pay $ 1,000 fine under 245(i) A - ammenment & send $ now to CIS. If CIS accept this, fine. If does not, fine too.

2) Per second attorney, we can't send $ 1000 fine now since it is over 30 days. Also if i disclose on CZ application then CIS HAVE TO dig in/question me about working during F-1, may be CZ will be denied & GC may be revoked. This attorney has good contacts/friends with Homeland security so he asked Homeland security people whether they have any intention to add social sucurity as a cross reference, homeland sec replied in negative. It does not mean they will never enforce cross reference to social security. He also mentioned something, lets assume your CZ get denied besed on you hid 'material facts', the attorney can fight the case on the following ground. Since i qualify under 245(i) A, my GC would have been approved no matter if i were disclosed my F-1 vialation so it is NOT a material representation on my case.

Conclusion: I am thinking not to file any amendment now, also planning to answer NO to question # 15, 23. Let it go & try to stay out of my any crime. What do you all think?
 
Handsome1

When it comes to ‘tax issue’ then it is important to know its role in context with immigration benefit at different times in dealing with USCIS.

During the time of obtaining LPR, USCIS NEVER asks whether or not applicant has ever failed to pay taxes. Because, paying an income tax is not a requirement to obtain a LPR. Nor USCIS can find the applicant as a person of bad character if applicant has not paid the required taxes. This ‘tax issue’ is completely mute/dead during the time of LPR. USCIS doesn’t care whether someone has paid taxes or not. It is not their problem. Besides, they are not there to carry out IRS laws; instead they are there to carry out immigration laws.

A lot of married couples submit joint tax returns along with their application for LPR, but the only purpose for them to submit those tax returns is just to prove the bona fide of their marriage. So, it is not submitted to prove that they have paid taxes to govt. Besides, USCIS knows that an applicant for LPR is not supposed to work anyway before his/her status is adjusted (approval of I-485) unless s/he has prior permission from them to work. So obviously, they don’t expect a person to have paid taxes. And if someone is permitted to work before their status is even adjusted then the only reason behind is-so that this person could support himself/herself financially until a decision is made on his/her pending I-485. So obviously, USCIS doesn’t issue work permits to these people for the purpose of collecting taxes.

However, during the time of Naturalization, tax issue plays a very important/vital role. Because if someone has failed to pay the REQUIRED taxes then it is considered that such person is not a person of good character, which is a prime requirement for naturalization. And, applicant’s failure in paying the required taxes is considered as if applicant doesn’t care the laws and rules of United States. Do not forget that if someone won’t respect any law/rule in the United States then his/her application for Naturalization will be denied. Thereby, USCIS definitely denies the Naturalization application to a person if s/he has failed to pay the required taxes. Be noted: When it comes to tax issue for naturalization purpose then USCIS is not interested for the period before a LPR is obtained; instead they are only interested for the period after LPR is obtained.

People should also know that once a status is adjusted (approval of I-485) then many issues like having worked and studied without USCIS permission, having overstayed previously, traveled out of US being out of status for 180 days or more at any time, etc… become completely mute, irrelevant and dead. Because, these issues are supposed to be evaluated/determined during the time of adjusting status by USCIS, and not once a status is already adjusted. However, don’t be confused these issues with other issues like if someone has lied to gain entry/green card or had pre-intent at the time of entry to US. These are very serious issues, which could create a big problem during the time of Naturalization. But other aforesaid issues won’t create any problem once a status is already adjusted being petty in nature. Also, don’t forget either that a person in F-1 status is legally allowed to work for certain hours. So if someone had worked without USCIS permission under F-1 visa and if this person is already a green card holder then this person doesn’t need to worry anything. Again, pay attention-a person in this situation won’t face any problem whatsoever. However, NEVER disclose anything voluntarily to USCIS.

It should also be known that USCIS doesn’t check anything with either IRS or SSA. By law, these agencies cannot share any information with USCIS anyway. USCIS is allowed to verify only the validity of very limited information/documents with these agencies. That’s all.

Further, one of the attorneys you have consulted is completely a nut as he is wrong in advising you to pay now $1000 to USCIS to amend anything to your green card application, which has already been adjudicated a long time ago. You cannot do any amendment to the mistake that you might have made before. By such advise, it’s seemed that attorney is trying to portray as if Govt. cares about your $1000. Actually, govt. doesn’t issue green card to make money; otherwise everyone will happily pay more than ten times of $1000 to get a green card. Don’t even listen to this silly “advice”.

If you were not specifically asked about this issue during the time of obtaining LPR, then it means-you did not lie anything about it. Not disclosing something is not as if you lied. Listen very carefully-you did not lie anything, and you don’t need to be paranoid about this issue for nothing. Like I told you earlier, once I-485 gets approved, all this type of issues become dead/mute. Because, these are discretional issues for USCIS. Means-adjudication officers retain the right to ignore these issues if they want to. Just don’t mention about this anywhere, and NEVER disclose anything voluntarily to USCIS. In Sony’s case, USCIS concluded a fraud as he NEVER attended the school at that time despite of being entered on F-1, but your case is not about Fraud, instead it is about petty violation, which becomes mute once a status is adjusted.

I don’t care what advises are given to you by different people over this forum or by attorneys. Because, as far as JohnnyCash is concerned-you don’t have a problem whatsoever. This issue won’t even bring/come up during your Naturalization time, trust me. Read my lips-you are good to go on your N-400. You will be the biggest ‘dumb and dumber’ if you would open the can of worms by disclosing about it. And, unless you want to have some kind of “fun” or “excitement” with USCIS, you would keep your mouth sealed on this unless you are specifically asked about this. Good Luck.
 
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related but different queston

Say, suppose he did lie that he was a citizen to get to work off-campus on F1. We now know what could happen if he doesn't tell the truth on his citizenship application, then what could - or most likely to - happen if he does tell the truth by saying he actually claimed to be a citizen when he was not. Any thoughts?
 
A person MUST have to be an insane if s/he would choose to disclose voluntarily to USCIS about having claimed to be a US citizen in the past. Because, then even God cannot save him/her as there is no any waiver available under immigration laws if someone is found to be in this situation. I mean-it is completely a ludicrous if someone mistakenly believes that if s/he will be truthful about this then s/he could save himself/herself from future consequences, or USCIS might forgive him/her if s/he would come forward in telling the truth on this. Because, the moment you will tell to USCIS about this, you will be placed on deportation right away. There is no mercy on this. So, what good would do if someone would choose to disclose about it? No brainer.
 
JohnnyCash said:
A person MUST have to be an insane if s/he would choose to disclose voluntarily to USCIS about having claimed to be a US citizen in the past. Because, then even God cannot save him/her as there is no any waiver available under immigration laws if someone is found to be in this situation. I mean-it is completely a ludicrous if someone mistakenly believes that if s/he will be truthful about this then s/he could save himself/herself from future consequences, or USCIS might forgive him/her if s/he would come forward in telling the truth on this. Because, the moment you will tell to USCIS about this, you will be placed on deportation right away. There is no mercy on this. So, what good would do if someone would choose to disclose about it? No brainer.

How USCIS can verify if someone ever checked yes to be us citizen on any application? I am just currious
 
Thanks a million to all specially JonnyCash & Joef. Both attorney said not to disclose it. The attorney is talking about sending $ 1000 is actually for MY peace of mind.

As far as claiming Citizen, if i can remember (10 year ago) correctly i never claimed being a citizen on job application. I believe it used to give choices like
1) Are you citizen
2) Are you authorized to work

I think i said i am authorized to work. I woked only at one place.

Anyway, i think the conlusion is not to disclose it. IF IF IF i am asked during interview about it then i will speak the truth & basis will be i do qualify under 245(i) but failed to file the correct form & $ 1000 fine. Either way i would have been granted GC so it is not material fact in my case. Is this sound okay?.
 
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