Wife applying for her USC (N-400) - (thinking ahead)

[BritishGuy]

I am thinking ahead (my wife has 2 years to apply for the US Citizenship - based upon marriage to a US Citizen). I've been reading some of the instructions on the N-400 checklist instruction form and it states the following documents have to be sent with the application:

Documents referring to you and your spouse:

a. Tax returns, bank accounts, leases, mortgages, or birth certificates of children; or

b. Internal Revenue Service (IRS)-certified copies of the income tax forms that you both filed for the past 3 years; or

c. An IRS tax return transcript for the last 3 years.

I was considering sending the (a) list of documents on behalf of my wife (and me being her spouse). I can provide joint bank accounts, a joint mortgage (joint property ownership) and birth certificates of both our children (we have two and we are both the biological parents). Heck, we'll even provide a car lease in joint names. I would rather not provide tax returns if possible. (b) and (c) require tax returns, though (a) shows 'tax returns' as a component of the list. Would it be a big deal if tax returns weren't given?

I understand that (a) OR (b) OR (c) should be given, I'm trying to opt for the (a) option. By the way NOT that me or my wife won't be paying our due taxes (we WILL be) but we'll be filling separately (not joint) - she does hers and I do mine. We ALWAYS file our taxes. And we file them VERY differently. She's a housewife will nil income (not that her nil income makes any difference). I rather not put tax papers forward if need be. Our taxes are very complex and hence would rather stay away from submitting tax papers.

Would this be a 100% detriment to my wife getting her US Citizenship?

All replies are welcome-and thanks in advance.

 

[Marusia_GC]

I am thinking ahead (my wife has 2 years to apply for the US Citizenship - based upon marriage to a US Citizen). I've been reading some of the instructions on the N-400 checklist instruction form and it states the following documents have to be sent with the application:

Documents referring to you and your spouse:

a. Tax returns, bank accounts, leases, mortgages, or birth certificates of children; or

b. Internal Revenue Service (IRS)-certified copies of the income tax forms that you both filed for the past 3 years; or

c. An IRS tax return transcript for the last 3 years.

I was considering sending the (a) list of documents on behalf of my wife (and me being her spouse). I can provide joint bank accounts, a joint mortgage (joint property ownership) and birth certificates of both our children (we have two and we are both the biological parents). Heck, we'll even provide a car lease in joint names. I would rather not provide tax returns if possible. (b) and (c) require tax returns, though (a) shows 'tax returns' as a component of the list. Would it be a big deal if tax returns weren't given?

I understand that (a) OR (b) OR (c) should be given, I'm trying to opt for the (a) option. By the way NOT that me or my wife won't be paying our due taxes (we WILL be) but we'll be filling separately (not joint) - she does hers and I do mine. We ALWAYS file our taxes. And we file them VERY differently. She's a housewife will nil income (not that her nil income makes any difference). I rather not put tax papers forward if need be. Our taxes are very complex and hence would rather stay away from submitting tax papers.

Would this be a 100% detriment to my wife getting her US Citizenship?

All replies are welcome-and thanks in advance.

If your wife files all tax returns on a regular basis and marks in N-400 that she has never had any problems with taxes, an IO at your wife's interview may even not ask for her IRS tax transcripts. However, you may order these transcripts at the IRS website or calling IRS. Since you and your spouse file taxes separately, these tax transcripts are not a proof of your marriage in good standing, but a proof that she does not owe any past due taxes. All taxes paid in due time is a requirement for everyone, even for 18-year old students (with no or very minor income) - dependents of their parents. For example, we called IRS and got transcript for 2011 for my son, a college kid, who was working part-time during last summer break. However, the IO did not ask him for any tax transcript at the interview, because he marked in N-400 that he did not have any debts regarding taxes. As far as I understand, "no tax debts" refers to an applicant, but not to a spouse or a parent of this applicant. Joint tax transcript may be favorable as a proof of marriage in marriage-based applications, but if tax returns are filed separately, your wife's tax transcripts will just show that she does not owe any taxes. Still, it's better to order tax transcripts. You can get them from IRS for free.

 

[baikal3]

I am thinking ahead (my wife has 2 years to apply for the US Citizenship - based upon marriage to a US Citizen). I've been reading some of the instructions on the N-400 checklist instruction form and it states the following documents have to be sent with the application:

Documents referring to you and your spouse:

a. Tax returns, bank accounts, leases, mortgages, or birth certificates of children; or

b. Internal Revenue Service (IRS)-certified copies of the income tax forms that you both filed for the past 3 years; or

c. An IRS tax return transcript for the last 3 years.

I was considering sending the (a) list of documents on behalf of my wife (and me being her spouse). I can provide joint bank accounts, a joint mortgage (joint property ownership) and birth certificates of both our children (we have two and we are both the biological parents). Heck, we'll even provide a car lease in joint names.


I would rather not provide tax returns if possible.

Getting IRS tax return transcripts is free and easy to do.

For marriage based naturalization cases, providing copies of tax return transcripts is pretty much expected, and that's what almost all of the 3-year rule N-400 applicants do, and that's pretty much the first thing the IO will expect to see in the file.

The IOs are trained to spot suspicious signs and follow-up on them.


By providing a bunch of other stuff but not doing the obvious such as providing the tax return transcripts, your wife will be, in effect, screaming "I have got something to hide!"
This basically guarantees to arouse the IO's suspicions and to invite follow-up questions.
Almost certainly the IO will ask at the interview why the tax return transcripts were not provided, and your wife will not be able to give a satisfactory response. Saying something like "Well, I read the instructions and it seemed that the way and's and or's are parsed there, that providing tax transcripts is not absolutely mandatory" would dig an even bigger hole for her case.

If she provides tax return transcripts (like all the other marriage-based N-400 applicants do), plus various other documents you mentioned (joint bank accounts, mortgage etc), chances are the IO will glance only briefly at the tax transcripts. The fact that they are actually provided usually matters more than what's actually in them (with some exceptions, related to the filing status).

But if tax transcripts are not provided, that fact alone would likely lead to further scrutiny. Most likely the IO will postpone a decision on your wife's case at the interview, and will give (or mail) your wife form N-14, asking her to submit the tax transcripts later by mail. In such a situation, when tax transcripts finally arrive, the IO will go over them with fine tooth-comb, looking for anything suspicious.
She'll be better off providing tax transcripts up front.

By the way NOT that me or my wife won't be paying our due taxes (we WILL be) but we'll be filling separately (not joint) - she does hers and I do mine. We ALWAYS file our taxes. And we file them VERY differently. She's a housewife will nil income (not that her nil income makes any difference). I rather not put tax papers forward if need be. Our taxes are very complex and hence would rather stay away from submitting tax papers.

Would this be a 100% detriment to my wife getting her US Citizenship?

All replies are welcome-and thanks in advance.

You might consider filing joint tax returns for the next couple of years.
Generally, the IOs will expect marriage-based N-400 applicants to file joint tax returns with their U.S. citizen spouse. They view this as evidence of intact bona fide marriage.

"Married, filed separately" status is typically used by people who are still married but are legally or at least informally separated. The "married filing separately" status offers much fewer tax benefits than "married filing jointly". So using that status can also lead to some questions from the IO during the interview. However, if your wife has a reasonable explanation for using the "married filing separately" status (along the lines that you mentioned in your post), she might do OK anyway - but I am not sure about this, and perhaps others with more direct experience/knowledge of the issue could comment on this point. At the very least in that case I'd suggest that she provide copies of both hers and yours tax return transcripts, both showing the same home address, to dispel suspicion that you are not living together.
But it'd be better to file joint taxes for the next couple of years.

 

[Jackolantern]

The interviewer will ask for tax returns/transcripts, as that is a routine request for marriage-based cases. But the OP has already been married for over 3 years (which would become over 5 years by the time his wife applies for citizenship), and they have two children together, plus a mortgage and other significant evidence, so the lack of filing joint returns shouldn't be a big obstacle.

When she's asked for it, she can simply show her own returns or transcripts which were married-filing-separately, and when asked why it's separate give them a brief explanation (e.g. your accountant did the math and found that the tax bill would be much higher if filed jointly, or her lawyer advised against filing separately because your tax returns are extremely long and complex and she doesn't want to get involved in that).

Just make sure the explanation is true; I have my doubts that first reason would be true. When one spouse has no income, married filing jointly usually results in a lower total tax bill. Has your accountant done the math both ways and found that filing separately actually results in lower taxes?

 

[baikal3]

The interviewer will ask for tax returns/transcripts, as that is a routine request for marriage-based cases. But the OP has already been married for over 3 years (which would become over 5 years by the time his wife applies for citizenship), and they have two children together, plus a mortgage and other significant evidence, so the lack of filing joint returns shouldn't be a big obstacle.

Having children and having been married for 3+ years is convincing evidence that the marriage was a bona fide real marriage and not a sham marriage entered into for obtaining immigration benefits. (In fact, having children by that marriage pretty much dispels any questions in that regard).

However, for a marriage-based N-400 they'll be looking not just for the evidence of the marriage having been a bona fide one, but also for evidence that the marriage is still fully intact. In that regard the fact that the marriage produced children, in and if itself, does not help, and having recent tax returns filed separately may raise some questions.
But indeed, perhaps things like current (as of the time of filing N-400 and of the time of the interview) joint mortgage statements, current bank account statements and similar up-to-date evidence of still living together and maintaining joint household may well be sufficient to address those concerns.

 

[BritishGuy]

Jackolantern is correct. I've been married since (err.......almost 4 years) - by the time my wife applies for her citizenship it'll have been over 5 years. We have 2 kids (a 2 year old and a 3 month old) - so it's all legit. If I do end up putting all the tax papers forward (actually if my wife does) as we'll be applying at the 2 years and 9 month mark, we'd only have 2 years worth of tax returns (since she became an LPR). Would that suffice (as I for some reason was thinking they need 3 years worth of tax returns)?

I'm leaning towards getting the tax paperwork for her/myself put forward for when we do apply (just so that it's one less thing) that they ask. Just that in years gone by I have filed a tax form 2555 and I KNOW that if I were to do that now it'd definitely be a NO-NO for her citizenship paperwork. (Hence thinking ahead 2 years). I am a contractor so 1040's and W-2's don't necessarily apply to me. Hence I would rather if possible at all just have my wife file separately (but married) - though I know this raises questions. Ones that I (nor her) would rather get into.

 

[baikal3]

Jackolantern is correct. I've been married since (err.......almost 4 years) - by the time my wife applies for her citizenship it'll have been over 5 years. We have 2 kids (a 2 year old and a 3 month old) - so it's all legit. If I do end up putting all the tax papers forward (actually if my wife does) as we'll be applying at the 2 years and 9 month mark, we'd only have 2 years worth of tax returns (since she became an LPR). Would that suffice (as I for some reason was thinking they need 3 years worth of tax returns)?

USCIS is a bureaucracy, and a part of what an IO does is count the requisite pieces of paper. The instructions say for the last three years, so she should provide tax return transcripts for the last three years, even if the oldest of them largely covers the period before she became an LPR. If by the time of the interview a more recent (than available at the time of submitting N-400) tax return transcript becomes available, she should also get that one and bring it to the interview.

 

[Jackolantern]

However, for a marriage-based N-400 they'll be looking not just for the evidence of the marriage having been a bona fide one, but also for evidence that the marriage is still fully intact. In that regard the fact that the marriage produced children, in and if itself, does not help, and having recent tax returns filed separately may raise some questions.

I figured somebody would point that out. I should have further clarified that it's not the mere fact of having children together that's important for marriage-based naturalization, it's the evidence they will accumulate through raising the children together in the same household during the 3 years of the statutory period that will be very beneficial in overcoming other concerns like filing taxes separately.

 

[Jackolantern]

I'm leaning towards getting the tax paperwork for her/myself put forward for when we do apply (just so that it's one less thing) that they ask.

What do you mean -- you'll file as married-jointly? Or you'll wait until she has 3 years of tax transcripts available?

It is not a hard and fast requirement that you must have 3 years of tax returns or that they must be jointly filed. Remember that some people have NO tax returns because they have insufficient income to be required to file (especially those who married young or have been underemployed/unemployed due to the recession), but they still get approved. And others file taxes separately for legitimate reasons like reducing their tax bill, and still get approved.

If she doesn't have 3 years of joint tax returns, it just means is an explanation will be needed for why there are less than 3 or why they are separate, and having other evidence of an ongoing viable marriage becomes more important. Assuming that you're still living in the same house with both kids when she applies for citizenship, you'll have more than enough evidence to satisfy the latter without joint tax returns.

 

[nanisha]

RFE on H1B transfer

I was on H1 with a employer X, and joined employer Y few months ago. Employer Y filed my H1 transfer on basis of a client C1 project (project through mid-vendor). But unfortunately, client C1 didnot start the project for which I was recruited and within 1 month it was ended. Right after, coming out of Client C1, got an RFE, seeking for client letter. Client C1 is not ready to provide any client letter and now im struck. In the meantime, I got a project with another client C2. Now want to know what will happen to my case.

1. Showing the proof of working with client C1 will help ? (proof like screen shots showing contract employee in the client C1 location, letter from mid vendor etc.,)
2. Or if it gets rejected or H1 petition withdrawn before the reply date, what will be my status for the period I worked for employer Y?
3. Or replying RFE with real situation will help my case?
4. If in case, my H1 gets rejected, what will the implications?

Please help.

 

[baikal3]

I was on H1 with a employer X, and joined employer Y few months ago. Employer Y filed my H1 transfer on basis of a client C1 project (project through mid-vendor). But unfortunately, client C1 didnot start the project for which I was recruited and within 1 month it was ended. Right after, coming out of Client C1, got an RFE, seeking for client letter. Client C1 is not ready to provide any client letter and now im struck. In the meantime, I got a project with another client C2. Now want to know what will happen to my case.

1. Showing the proof of working with client C1 will help ? (proof like screen shots showing contract employee in the client C1 location, letter from mid vendor etc.,)
2. Or if it gets rejected or H1 petition withdrawn before the reply date, what will be my status for the period I worked for employer Y?
3. Or replying RFE with real situation will help my case?
4. If in case, my H1 gets rejected, what will the implications?

Please help.

You are posting in the wrong forum. This is a forum for U.S. citizenship topics, while your post is about H1-B issues. If you want your questions answered, post them in the "General H-1 and H-3 Visa and Related Issues" forum, http://forums.immigration.com/forumdisplay.php?186-General-H-1-and-H-3-Visa-and-Related-Issues

Also, don't post in some other user's thread, but start a new thread for your own questions: use the "+Post New Thread" button in the upper left area of the "General H-1 and H-3 Visa and Related Issues" forum page.

 

[BritishGuy]

What do you mean -- you'll file as married-jointly? Or you'll wait until she has 3 years of tax transcripts available?


It is not a hard and fast requirement that you must have 3 years of tax returns or that they must be jointly filed. Remember that some people have NO tax returns because they have insufficient income to be required to file (especially those who married young or have been underemployed/unemployed due to the recession), but they still get approved. And others file taxes separately for legitimate reasons like reducing their tax bill, and still get approved.

If she doesn't have 3 years of joint tax returns, it just means is an explanation will be needed for why there are less than 3 or why they are separate, and having other evidence of an ongoing viable marriage becomes more important. Assuming that you're still living in the same house with both kids when she applies for citizenship, you'll have more than enough evidence to satisfy the latter without joint tax returns.

I was wanting to file married but for tax purposes individually (but as married) - hope that's not too confusing.

Also, my wife got her green card in Feb 2012. So her first tax return will be in Jan 2013 (for fiscal year 2012). If she decides to apply for her USC at 2 years and 9 months then she'll only have fiscal year 2012 and 2013 tax returns available to her. I know that 3 years worth of tax returns are recommended, but at this point she'll only have 2 years returns. Is hat something they'd understand? Of course, as the fiscal year 2014 comes to a close then she'll file, but who knows how far along with the process she'll be. Does it make a difference?

We will be living in the same house with the same kids. My job takes me away for a few weeks sometimes, but my domicile for all purposes and intent will be with my wife and kids under the same roof. Would it hurt if we sent in additional documentation with joint names on there (eg electricity bills, telephone bills etc) or would it just confuse matters. I've often found sending additional paperwork that has not been requested usually leads to the curiosity of "why has this been sent?"

 

[Jackolantern]

I was wanting to file married but for tax purposes individually (but as married) - hope that's not too confusing.

You mean "married filing separately"?

Also, my wife got her green card in Feb 2012. So her first tax return will be in Jan 2013 (for fiscal year 2012). If she decides to apply for her USC at 2 years and 9 months then she'll only have fiscal year 2012 and 2013 tax returns available to her. I know that 3 years worth of tax returns are recommended, but at this point she'll only have 2 years returns. Is hat something they'd understand? Of course, as the fiscal year 2014 comes to a close then she'll file, but who knows how far along with the process she'll be. Does it make a difference?[/I]

Like I said above, having 3 years of tax returns/transcripts is not an absolute requirement. Not having them only means an explanation will be needed, and not being in the US long enough is a valid explanation. The 2014 tax return won't be due until April 2015, and no applicant is expected to produce a tax return before its due date.

Your fear of her not having those 3 years tax returns is overblown. Your other evidence will be more than strong enough to overcome that.

We will be living in the same house with the same kids. My job takes me away for a few weeks sometimes, but my domicile for all purposes and intent will be with my wife and kids under the same roof. Would it hurt if we sent in additional documentation with joint names on there (eg electricity bills, telephone bills etc) or would it just confuse matters. I've often found sending additional paperwork that has not been requested usually leads to the curiosity of "why has this been sent?"

Send certain basic documents like the mortgage and a few recent bank statements, but save the tax transcripts and extra documentation like utility bills for the interview, and she should show the extras only if specifically asked, or if the interviewer otherwise suggests that the submitted evidence is insufficient.

 

[BritishGuy]

You mean "married filing separately"?



Like I said above, having 3 years of tax returns/transcripts is not an absolute requirement. Not having them only means an explanation will be needed, and not being in the US long enough is a valid explanation. The 2014 tax return won't be due until April 2015, and no applicant is expected to produce a tax return before its due date.

Your fear of her not having those 3 years tax returns is overblown. Your other evidence will be more than strong enough to overcome that.


Send certain basic documents like the mortgage and a few recent bank statements, but save the tax transcripts and extra documentation like utility bills for the interview, and she should show the extras only if specifically asked, or if the interviewer otherwise suggests that the submitted evidence is insufficient.

Yes, Married filing separately, that's what I mean. Hope it's not a deal breaker. Anyway, would 6 months worth of mortgage statements, and 6 months worth of bank statements be sufficient? Or as I'd be saving tax receipts until the interview should we be producing more than 6 months worth of bank/mortgage statements?

 

[Jackolantern]

Yes, Married filing separately, that's what I mean. Hope it's not a deal breaker.

It's not.

Anyway, would 6 months worth of mortgage statements, and 6 months worth of bank statements be sufficient?

The 3 most recent statements, plus another 6 statements interspersed throughout the 3-year period should be sufficient. Send the most recent 3 with the application, bring the other 6+ to the interview.

Or as I'd be saving tax receipts until the interview should we be producing more than 6 months worth of bank/mortgage statements?

You don't need to save tax receipts. Just order tax transcripts from the IRS a couple months (or more) after each annual tax return has been filed. I think they actually prefer tax transcripts to the raw returns and receipts, as the transcript is an official IRS document. The tax transcript is also in a more summarized format, so a raw return with 100+ pages gets reduced to a 10-page transcript.

Also remember that if you're filing separately it's her tax transcripts/returns they'll want to see, not yours. If they ask for yours it would only be if they want evidence of how she was supported financially while having little or none of her own income.