what is the benefit for us (EB2/EB3 retro) if CIR gets passed?

[Jackolantern]

It really is nuts to give those who have been here illegally an advantage over those who have never entered the country.

Amnesty should be nothing more than "if you leave the country by X date, we won't hold your past illegal presence against you. If you want to come back in legally, you can apply for a visa just like anybody else trying to enter legally."

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

It really is nuts to give those who have been here illegally an advantage over those who have never entered the country.

Amnesty should be nothing more than "if you leave the country by X date, we won't hold your past illegal presence against you. If you want to come back in legally, you can apply for a visa just like anybody else trying to enter legally."

Argument is that most of the illegals do the jobs that Americans don't like to do, because they are illegals. Assumption is that they would continue to do the same kind of work even after becoming legals. Where as legal aspirants compete with citizens jobs with growing number of out-sourced jobs. Therefore the politicians are just doing what the majority of the public wants.

The problem is that this may be an argument based on the current situation but does anyone care about a legal aspirant who worked hard all these long years on the hope of getting a green card. Well, than we can conveniently say that the green card is for future employment and hard work at the current job really does not count. But I don’t think this is going to work in the long term, and then the counter argument would be to say that we have many people from other parts of the world. Well, who is stopping them from coming now, so, who would want do unstable yet continuously updating jobs in the long run without a permanent residency, I would say very few. Therefore administration should wake up give legal employment based immigration a serious thought.

 

[Jackolantern]

Argument is that most of the illegals do the jobs that Americans don't like to do, because they are illegals. Assumption is that they would continue to do the same kind of work even after becoming legals. Where as legal aspirants compete with citizens jobs with growing number of out-sourced jobs. Therefore the politicians are just doing what the majority of the public wants.

The demand for the "jobs that Americans won't do" can be satisfied with legal immigrants if the system is designed right. Give out temporary visas that are tied to an occupation and not a specific job, so they can change jobs freely within that occupation. Add the condition that they must work (and pay taxes) in that occupation for X number of years, without too many gaps in employment, and at the end of those years they can sponsor themselves for a green card. Yes, once getting the green card some will move onto other occupations, but at least you got some number of years service from them.

 

[marlon2006]

Of course. More and more we see that this idea of H1B and "temporary guest worker" is just plain BS. It is so easy to fix this immigration mess. Just hire more USCIS officers and simply increase the numbers of permanent greencards for family members as a temporary selection measure, as you said, associated with the type of occupation for a certain period of time. That's it. It solves the problem overnight. The illegal aliens from there should find life difficult to stay here, get their money and go back. if they find a way to apply from their home country, they could be pardon. No preference whatsoever could be given to them. Problem fixed.

A fix for the H1B/greencard situation was proposed by IEEE. Simply suspend the H1B program and increase the number of greencards.

In the past I was naive enough to believe that politicians and employers did not know about the solution above. More recently I realized all that is part of a profit margin plan. I seriously doubt that Bill Gates is not smart enough to realize that the above solution would fix the immigration problem. It seems employers do not want the fix above.

The demand for the "jobs that Americans won't do" can be satisfied will legal immigrants if the system is designed right. Give out temporary visas that are tied to an occupation and not a specific job, so they can change jobs freely within that occupation. Add the condition that they must work (and pay taxes) in that occupation for X number of years, without too many gaps in employment, and at the end of those years they can sponsor themselves for a green card. Yes, once getting the green card some will move onto other occupations, but at least you got some number of years service from them.

 

[Jackolantern]

But if those illegals apply their PD will be after us right? SO they will be added to the end of the queue?

If they are at the end of the same EB queue as us, they shouldn't get through before us. But they will screw things up for the next set of EB immigrants, unless they are placed in a separate queue altogether.

 

[gcwhenever]

Greg Siskind writes:
"Two parts of the bill are specifically designed to appease the anti-amnesty folks (at least the reasonable ones). The legalization aspects of the bill will not kick in until benchmarks are reached on the enforcement provisions (the "trigger"). This will address the criticism that we should not be offering benefits to undocumented immigrants until we get control of the border and immigration enforcement. The other important appeasement provision is the "touchback" that will require legalization applicants to leave the US and then reenter the US. The idea is that the departure and reentry will be instantaneous, but somehow the immigrant will be "cleansed" by the process. Sort of like baptism


Hope this does not mean that visa reforms for legal immigrants will not be enacted until these "enforcement benchmarks" are reached. Hoping it means only legalization for illegals.

Seems like more and more our fate is being decided by illegals.

what a looong way to go.
First the bill has to be passed by House, then introduced and passed by Senate, then who the hell knows when enactment of the bill will take place?

I think for most of us in this forum, we will get our gcs long before this bill can affect us in any way, even at the current snail pace

 

[pkpkpkpk]

Argument is that most of the illegals do the jobs that Americans don't like to do, because they are illegals. Assumption is that they would continue to do the same kind of work even after becoming legals.

You have hit the nail on the head. Even if the illegals are willing to do the same job, they definitely will not do it under the same conditions/pay. They will get unionized/whatever and the current employers will now have to take them on the records and there will still be at least some jobs that are lost due to this.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

The demand for the "jobs that Americans won't do" can be satisfied with legal immigrants if the system is designed right. Give out temporary visas that are tied to an occupation and not a specific job, so they can change jobs freely within that occupation. Add the condition that they must work (and pay taxes) in that occupation for X number of years, without too many gaps in employment, and at the end of those years they can sponsor themselves for a green card. Yes, once getting the green card some will move onto other occupations, but at least you got some number of years service from them.

The new H2-C program may address these issues, looks like it is close to what you are saying except that it is not tied to an occupation.

 

[Jackolantern]

You have hit the nail on the head. Even if the illegals are willing to do the same job, they definitely will not do it under the same conditions/pay. They will get unionized/whatever and the current employers will now have to take them on the records and there will still be at least some jobs that are lost due to this.

What Americans are hoping for is that if the illegals are allowed to work legally, that they would indeed organize and demand better pay and benefits. That may cause an overall reduction of low-skilled jobs, but it could still increase the jobs and wages available to Americans, since Americans would no longer lose jobs or have their wages depressed due to illegals who will work for lower pay (except for jobs that can be offshored ... but most low-skilled jobs have already been offshored).

 

[Jackolantern]

The other important appeasement provision is the "touchback" that will require legalization applicants to leave the US and then reenter the US. The idea is that the departure and reentry will be instantaneous, but somehow the immigrant will be "cleansed" by the process.

I think the hope is that many of those who leave in order to apply for legalization won't be able to come back. Sort of a self-deportation.

 

[marlon2006]

If one offers legalization to illegals, as sure as we are talking here we will more illegal immigration anyway. Then one needs to compete against the 20+ million plus in the job market and the future influx of illegal aliens which will be attracted. There is no indication this administration is serious about stopping the roots of illegal immigration. By granting amnesty, that is just a sign that the influx of illegals are welcome anyway.

This idea of asking the head of the household to reenter and expect that will 'clean' things are at minimal ridiculuous. I doubt the anti-amnesty folks will buy this.

What Americans are hoping for is that if the illegals are allowed to work legally, that they would indeed organize and demand better pay and benefits. That may cause an overall reduction of low-skilled jobs, but it could still increase the jobs and wages available to Americans, since Americans would no longer lose jobs or have their wages depressed due to illegals who will work for lower pay (except for jobs that can be offshored ... but most low-skilled jobs have already been offshored).

 

[Jackolantern]

If one offers legalization to illegals, as sure as we are talking here we will more illegal immigration anyway. Then one needs to compete against the 20+ million plus in the job market and the future influx of illegal aliens which will be attracted. There is no indication this administration is serious about stopping the roots of illegal immigration. By granting amnesty, that is just a sign that the influx of illegals are welcome anyway.

This idea of asking the head of the household to reenter and expect that will 'clean' things are at minimal ridiculuous. I doubt the anti-amnesty folks will buy this.

I am not saying that amnesty is a good idea or that Americans want it. I'm saying that IF it happens, Americans would want the workers to stand up and demand proper pay and benefits, so that Americans can compete more fairly with them for jobs.

 

[logiclife]

Bill Text of STRIVE Act available now on Immigration Voice

Finally Immigration Voice got their hands on the actual 700 page bill last night from Washington DC.

THIS IS NOT YET ON THOMAS.LOC.GOV . It will be available on Thomas on Monday or Tuesday. The bill number will be H. R. 1645 if you want to look for it on thomas.loc.gov

This is available only to very very few people and Immigration Voice is lucky to have this bill text this early before its even on Thomas.(thomas.loc.gov)

A few things that pop out in the title 5 are :

1. Sec 511 : 485 filing when visa numbers are not available.
: 3 year extension of EAD/AP.

2. Sec 515 : Visa revalidation within USA (so you dont have to go outside to get stamped).

3. Sec 514 : Backlog reduction of labor files.

We will add more on Immigration Voice website as we learn more.

THE BILL TEXT IS HERE : http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3714

Please also read the thread about Meet-the-lawmakers drive on Immigration Voice and actively take steps to meet your congressmen and Senators during the Easter recess of Congress between 2nd and 9th April when most legislators are back home from DC in their districts.