We contribute billions of dollars to US Economy every year by simply paying our taxes

[kaveh2006]

It's amaizing, we contribute billions of dollars every year to us economy and yet the law makers go after fixing the Gren Card situation for illegal immigrants. Tell you what money talks anywhere, we need to start a class action against the Feds so they can wake up and fix this horrable situation for us.
It's a simple math, even if there are 100000 of out there, you know we are mostly single with 33% tax bracket...you can easily estimate how much we contribute to the economy evey year, we are talking billions...

 

[sundar99]

You forgot the SS Contribution (TAX you have to pay in any country )

Guys, wish to ask your opinions on this : I saw some folks who replied to my other posts confused and directionless and are chasing the tail.

To start with : (pls read completely before posting comments).

Most countries have Tax Treaties, so the money from SS does go out. Please go and check the list of countries before being negative on this. Singapore has just signed a Free Trade Agreement. India also has given representation, but not much progress on this. Since Prez is visitng India next month, this can be taken up on Joint - Billateral coop if we convince our North Block folks on the free $ potential that they could get as investment into india at no extra cost, but a diplomatic initiative. This means, we can atleast hope for PF account into which this $ can get deposited.

We need to work on this action Plan :
1. Continue to pursue with various agencies to ensure - EB Retro issues - such as sending fax/meeting senators etc.

2. Slap a Law suit to the govt on the grounds - Social Security money does not benefit Aliens - unless they become PRs, (Remember L1, and other categories do not pay for it). Ask them to make this optional - if folks want to keep the GC process.
3. Ensure the $ amount is returned to the individual if he goes back to his country - to this govt agencies such as PF (India)., CPF in Singapore and Malaysia and so on.

2 and 3 will make the US GOVT wake up. Also, Send out 1000's of Faxes to Washington DC Indian embassy on the SS money and also emails to Prez, PMO in India on how they can milk the $$$ of all NRIs on Temp Visas in US, and how this money can be used / invested in infrastructure development. Believe me, you cannot sue the govt for slow EB Visa Process. They can come up with intelligent excuses. But asking back the money if the individual did not apply/did not get his GC is more logical. Yes, the US Govt wants to keep the money., but the law suit is meant to go after the US GOVT. A law suit will attract more attention to the problem, instead of begging (Govt will twist the legal and immigrant cases as always and we all end up retiring in our jobs with a H1 Visa )
Mind you, India and China will be the biggest beneficiaries or Losers !

I know folks are sceptical., an idea remains with you unless you try it in reality, then it becomes innovation. Unless you believe in yourself you will make it, you cannot convince the world. Ask yourself, is this not your money ?, Do you want it, and then go in a legal way and get it. The whole process of GC itself is Discrimination and racial for Indians and CHineses folks who form the core of brilliant folks in all areas of expertise.

Folks in all companies should move their butts, and contribute financially and also in person if you can org like Immi Voice and expect them to File a Class A lawsuit on this, if you are one of those who reads a post and moves on, you and others would not get anything out of it, please help the cause, without being negative. Do not expect uncle sam to post you the GC by mail without you putting efforts

 

[kaveh2006]

don't forget about the country of origin contribution

Guys, wish to ask your opinions on this : I saw some folks who replied to my other posts confused and directionless and are chasing the tail.

To start with : (pls read completely before posting comments).

Most countries have Tax Treaties, so the money from SS does go out. Please go and check the list of countries before being negative on this. Singapore has just signed a Free Trade Agreement. India also has given representation, but not much progress on this. Since Prez is visitng India next month, this can be taken up on Joint - Billateral coop if we convince our North Block folks on the free $ potential that they could get as investment into india at no extra cost, but a diplomatic initiative. This means, we can atleast hope for PF account into which this $ can get deposited.

We need to work on this action Plan :
1. Continue to pursue with various agencies to ensure - EB Retro issues - such as sending fax/meeting senators etc.

2. Slap a Law suit to the govt on the grounds - Social Security money does not benefit Aliens - unless they become PRs, (Remember L1, and other categories do not pay for it). Ask them to make this optional - if folks want to keep the GC process.
3. Ensure the $ amount is returned to the individual if he goes back to his country - to this govt agencies such as PF (India)., CPF in Singapore and Malaysia and so on.

2 and 3 will make the US GOVT wake up. Also, Send out 1000's of Faxes to Washington DC Indian embassy on the SS money and also emails to Prez, PMO in India on how they can milk the $$$ of all NRIs on Temp Visas in US, and how this money can be used / invested in infrastructure development. Believe me, you cannot sue the govt for slow EB Visa Process. They can come up with intelligent excuses. But asking back the money if the individual did not apply/did not get his GC is more logical. Yes, the US Govt wants to keep the money., but the law suit is meant to go after the US GOVT. A law suit will attract more attention to the problem, instead of begging (Govt will twist the legal and immigrant cases as always and we all end up retiring in our jobs with a H1 Visa )
Mind you, India and China will be the biggest beneficiaries or Losers !

I know folks are sceptical., an idea remains with you unless you try it in reality, then it becomes innovation. Unless you believe in yourself you will make it, you cannot convince the world. Ask yourself, is this not your money ?, Do you want it, and then go in a legal way and get it. The whole process of GC itself is Discrimination and racial for Indians and CHineses folks who form the core of brilliant folks in all areas of expertise.

Folks in all companies should move their butts, and contribute financially and also in person if you can org like Immi Voice and expect them to File a Class A lawsuit on this, if you are one of those who reads a post and moves on, you and others would not get anything out of it, please help the cause, without being negative. Do not expect uncle sam to post you the GC by mail without you putting efforts

I agree with you and we're going to have to be more proactive on this matter...Anyways, don't forget about the country of origin's contribution to the success of US economy...On average country of origin such as India has to spend $120000 on every person's education from first grade until they earn the high school diploma, a student comes here spends another 30k to 50 K to get a US degree and then uncle sam will take advantage of all these available resources that they've never paid for...it's all win win for uncle sam...now you are graduated and crossing your fingures to get a job that sponsors you, if you're lucky...then you pay fees up to wazzzooo and wait ans wait and wait...you are the work force that moves the high tech economy but no, they can afford to give you the green card yet because illegal immigrants are dying crossing the us /mexico border and they need to become legal...at the end of the day you'l give up and go back to your country of origin with out taking advantage of all the things that you paid for such as SS and medicare and the list goes on...These guys are smart man...we have been fooled by the American dream, where is it anyways????

 

[GCdreamer2006]

Let's ask a reputable lawyer to assess this.

Immigration is a privilege, not a right. What would a lawsuit accomplish?
The US Congress can decide which people to accept and which one not.
While I can understand the frustration, arguing with the taxes legal immigrants pay doesn't get you anywhere. These taxes are a really insignificant part of the US tax base. The number sounds big, but if you look at the US budget, it puts it in perspective...
Furthermore, the US can easily cope losing a small number of engineers, computer people, etc. That would just accelerate offshoring.

 

[saras76]

Different situations .. different posts ...

Let's ask a reputable lawyer to assess this.

Guys and Gals,

There is no point in discussing this issue at length. As far as I can see, there are two types of posts in this thread. The first type is from immigrants that are currently stuck in this broken system and are looking for solutions. These people (me included) are angry, frustrated and desperate for some sort of resolution to this mess. In this desperation, we tend to come up with some ideas that border on the improbable and seem almost crazy. The second type of post is from immigrants that have already gone through this process and have already gotten their GC. Their posts are more candid, critical and at times mocking. To put it metaphorically, there are two sets of people separated by a river of "immigration". The view from each end is very different. The sensitivities are different and expectations are very different. There is no right or wrong here, its just the way it is.

regards,

saras76

 

[USCIS_GC_APPRO]

They is no word in US IRS for Taxes

You are exactly right buddy.

government has our taxes.

they want illegals to pay taxes. One of the ways to get them to pay taxes is to legalize them.

the amount that illegals would have to pay would be many, many times over what we pay.


from a monetary point of view; government has much to gain to get illegals to come out of the closet.

 

[techy2468]

you got it right..

Immigration is a privilege, not a right. What would a lawsuit accomplish?
The US Congress can decide which people to accept and which one not.
While I can understand the frustration, arguing with the taxes legal immigrants pay doesn't get you anywhere. These taxes are a really insignificant part of the US tax base. The number sounds big, but if you look at the US budget, it puts it in perspective...
Furthermore, the US can easily cope losing a small number of engineers, computer people, etc. That would just accelerate offshoring.

 

[gcstrat]

$10 billion in taxes; $3.2 billion in SS/Medicare

Guys and Gals

Let’s do some back of the envelope calculations – between 2000 and 2005, an estimated 700,000 H-1B professionals “came” to USA (form all over the world). Assuming an average salary to $60,000 per year, about $42 billion were spent on their compensation.

US government collected an average 25% in federal/ state/ local income taxes i.e. $10.5 billion was collected in the form of taxes, annually.

On top of that, Uncle Sam tapped their pay-checks for an additional 7.65% (employee portion) for Social Security and Medicare i.e. collected another $3.2 billion annually. So, Uncle Sam knowingly collects $3.2+ billion annually for programs for which it knows it has no obligations.

And, JoeF, I do not think USA can afford to lose 700,000 professionals.
There are just too many organizations (including defense organizations) where non-USA born people are making huge difference.

REGARDS
GCStrat

 

[gcstrat]

Comparing salaries with US budget is incorrect

Dear JoeF

I think we should compare apples to apples.
I fully agree with you when you compare H-1B taxes to US Budget of 2.77 trillion, it will be insignificant. And I also agree 700,000 people in a labor pool of over 110 million will be small.

However, how about an another measure of comparison?

How about MARKET CAPITALIZATION of all companies started by former H-1B folks? How about the jobs created by former H-1B folks? How about the research conducted by immigrant scientists in NASA and other organizations? What is the value of the drug developed by an immigrant PH.D which saves thousands of lives?

I also agree everyone is dispensible, but are they? UK became a fortress (from immigration perspective) after WW II and US gained the most by opening its doors to immigrants. Where is UK now? They also thought everyone is dispensible. Moment the word is out there that immigrants are not wanted, I believe, all the US technological leadership will vanish. Same thing happened to UK. The decline does not happen overnight but a decade or two later everyone will realise.

Regards
GCStrat

 

[sundar99]

FOlks, can you open your Pay Stub and Read ?

I saw folks are getting mixed up. Social Security - Please understand, is repatriated if they GOVT has treaty, so the arguments above does not hold water. Since INDIA DOES Not have treaty, we are all "SCREWED".

Before arguing anymore go to SS website and check how many countries have treaties and how the moeny goes back from US to that country if, the national goes back their.

We have a right to SS. We pay State TAX, We pay FED Tax, this we cannot claim. However SS tax is for SS benefit, since we are eligible for any benefits, why even put it here if we do not have a GC here.

To add further :
Once there is a lawsuit, they may fund the INS to clear the backlogs faster, the only dept that can be least funded shud be INS since it does not affect americans.

We got to standup and speakup on the free money on which their butts are resting. If we shake thier butts, they will wakeup to do some useful work, and also understand the impact of losing SS. On the otherhand someone commented about a lawsuit not holding waters. One - Since we are not GC holders, it is a right for the freedom of movement and also the SS $, since we have a claim to it. A lawsuit would work as long as there is collective participation and also backing from our own GOvts. It is not a one individual benefit, it should be shown as a collective initiative. This will obviously is going to stir a lot off interest.

it is almost like the British times ( Like LAGAAN Movie -if u can refresh, where they take everything from us, excpet that we are in their land)

In the end, no one is indispensable, if the US Companies think we are of no use, they will simply dump and offshore anyway. So my argument is - Take you SS out if they do not give a GC and work towards this, this will push the govt to decide one way or the other. I presume they will give GC, since we are the cash cow. You got to speak up instead of being so damn pessimistic.

 

[techy2468]

i totally agree with joeF, infact i was reluctant about the lawsuit...but maybe we can do that just to stir things up...

but before all that i would like to raise an old question, how many people are willing to pariticipate in any acitivity......few hundred........is that enough to fight a battle as big as this...........i dont think so....unless someone is willing to dedicate his life for this cause...

 

[sundar99]

I agree with you tech2468

If folks want action and GC they need to chip in $ to Immi Voice and have them file a a law suit with a hope. otherwise, you know we shoudl think we stayed in a good 5 star hotel for a few years and got back .

I agree a lawsuit is not a favourable option, but this is the only course to let the GOVT know that we mean business..give us our money if you are not giving GCs. If we can atleast get to file the lawsuite and the associated Publicity, this is good enough to make our lawmakers to address the EB Retro Case seriously.

In addition noone will confuse our case with Illeagal aliens (Mexicans etc). That way we get the direct message across. Presently, they are only talking about Illegals in every speech.

i totally agree with joeF, infact i was reluctant about the lawsuit...but maybe we can do that just to stir things up...

but before all that i would like to raise an old question, how many people are willing to pariticipate in any acitivity......few hundred........is that enough to fight a battle as big as this...........i dont think so....unless someone is willing to dedicate his life for this cause...

 

[saras76]

Yes a lawsuit maybe a good idea ...

Guys and Gals,

If the dates moves past our PDs and we still see no approval, then we should file lawsuits against the USCIS. If the reason is "Name Check" delay and it has been over 2 years since the your 485 was filed then filing a lasuit makes sense.

I am prepared to do this if my PD becomes current and the USCIS gives me some lame excuse for not approving the case.

As far as taxes go, we will never see them back. The only solution is to get the GC.

regards,

saras76

 

[saras76]

I understand ..

Hmm, for us "old timers" there is a lot of deja vu.
The situation had been worse than now in the late 90ies. I know people who needed over 6 years for their GC.
In my own case, I had to leave the country because my H1 ran out before my I-140 was approved. In the late 90ies/early 2000s, there was no 7th+ year H1 extension, there was no H1 transfer, there was no parallel I-140/I-485 filing.
So, the new generation of immigrants could actually learn from the experience we old timers had. We can provide a lot of experience, in particular what kinds of actions make sense and what kinds do not. For example, I am convinced that political actionism is pretty much useless. Employment-based immigrants are a very small number compared to family-based immigrants. Economically, the effect of employment-based immigration is negligible. Read the books by economists who study immigration, e.g., Borjas from Harvard.
The only thing that helps, if you indeed have a case, is to sue CIS. In my time, there was a class action suit against CIS because of the unduly long I-485 processing times. Not surprisingly, CIS went very fast approving the cases of the people in the lawsuit. Similarly, in the naturalization process (I'm doing that right now, so I am aware of the things there), several people got stuck for years in the name check started after 9/11. A lawsuit recently helped one guy to get his citizenship after a delay of over 1 year.

JoeF,

I have followed your posts over the years and have learnt a lot from them. Sadly, I am in the process of becoming an old timer on this forum without a resolution to my case. I appreciate your insight and your help. All I was doing was making an observation on the type of posts pre and post GC. I am sure my posts will do the same if I ever get my GC.

You do a good job. Keep it up.

regards,

saras76