Visiting Cop (cancelled By Ny) After Gc....
- Thread starter BGS
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wantmygcnow
Volunteer Moderator
BGS said:
Ok tell us details. Do you have a gc in hand?? If your COP will not renew your passport, obviously you can't go running back to them right?
The question is this to you, if your COP embassy will not renew your passport, what are the chances the officer at COP will accept a RTD?
Are you willing to risk yourself and possibly be arrested with a RTD in hand and trying to explain why you obtained asylum to officers at your COP?
Unless this is something you are willing to forgo your status and safety in the United States, I would suggest you think it through.
wantmygcnow said:
Yes I do have gc.
Two years ago, I was trying to renew my passport from NY, but they cancelled my passport due to asylee status and told me if you have to travel, get the RTD.
And I heard from one of you, after getting gc you may have a possibility to obtain your cop on behalf of humanitarium parole or family emergency. Also when I called NY, they said a same thing. But I want to make sure with anyone of yours personnel experience to went back to cop.
Thanks a lot for helping me on that!
How did your homeland consulate know about your asylee status (unless of course you tried to renew it after getting the GC and you had a stamp on yoyu passport or something)? it is supposed to be between you and INS until you get a GC and even you are told so during your asylee interview. I renewed my NP while being on asylee status and they did not know anything about it and renewed it just fine. And I even called INS and talked to an officer (not those who answer regular questions, but a more high-ranked officer) saying I intend to use my NP for countries where a visa is required for RTD but not for my NP and his answer was "sure, no problem", so renewing your passport is not frawned upon by INS, but only you going to your COP raises questions.So how did the consulate find out about it and cancelled your passport??? I am curious so I hope you reply.
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Yeah I know that but GC's are cards and not in your passport which is why I said "unless there is stamp on his passport.". When I renewed my NP, my previous visa already had expired (since I was on asylee status at the mo) but the consulate did not care for my INS status to renew the passport as the INS business and their obligation to renew tehir citizens' passports are two different things, so I doubt they asked him what his status was or asked to see his green card. Maybe his consulate works differently or maybe he had the GC stamp on his passport taht they ended up seeing.thankful said:
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Ah ok. Mine doesn't and didn't orelse I could not have renewed mine (since I was an asylee at the time and my previous visa had expired by then), which is why I was confused why he had to show his green card. So I guess his required to show his status then.thankful said:
clotty said:
Some countries are really nosy about what their people are up to in the United States.
BTW, renewing your passport while in asylee status is dangerous because under international rules there is a presumption that you do not need asylum anymore if you do that.
thankful said:
I understand where the presumption comes from but after presuming it they will need to look at the facts: whether I visited my COP or not. I was granted asylum because I coudl not live under certain conditions the country or how a certain community was treated in that country. It does not mean I no longer want to be that country's citizen because it is such a "forever" implication. Noone can predict the future of someone or of a country. For the moment (the moment that I applied for an asylum) the fear of living there was valid. If it is still valid 5 years down the line and I still wish to be a US citizen then to be able to live here like a citizen , then it will still be valid then. But ten year later, who knows.
I renewed my NP because I intended to use my NP for some of my travels to some countries where they did not need a visa for my NP but neded for my RTD. I called INS , talked to an officer and explained this openly and he said that was fine and so I used my RTD to exit and enter the US but used my NP for my travels to those countries. The renewal of passport alone is not dangerous, it may arise assumption that you may visit your COP but unless you have visited your COP, it is not to be worried. I am not intending to lose my citizenship to my COP, and I do not think being an asylee suggests you should lose the citizenship to your COP either which means renewing a passport does not by itself cause a problem . After all the situations in your country may change 5 years down the line and it is best to keep your NP and citizenship. It does not mean you should feel guilty, say, after you get your US citizienship and things in your counry improved in 2023 and you go there to visit then or even move back there that what you did back when you applied for asylum was "fraud". Just like those who get GC through marriage can divorce down the line; that does not mean their marriage was fraud when they petitioned for a GC.
The fraud would be only to lie when you are applying for GC or citizenship. I explained this even during my asylee interview saying I have family in my home country and I would want to visit them as it is NOT the politics in my country that caused me to apply for an asylum, but that does not mean I intend to make annual visits but maybe short visits in case of emergencies can be explainable. I will live in USA till the day I die, but I do plan on having dual citizienship, not because I will go back to my COP and live there but ten years down the line thinsg may change in the home country for so much better that I may go visit my family and stay for 3 months if I feel like it. The reason my case was granted an asylum was not because I had fear of visiting or that I hated my country and wishes no more to be associated with it; it was the living/residing there that showed the effects of persectution or harassment. So no, I do not think renewing your passport alone is dangerous, but what is dangerous when you apply for citizenship is if you went to COP more than once and how long you stayed and why you went there. And that is a problem regardless of whether you renewed your passport or not. I may renew my passport but use it to visit many other countries if I want to, as long as I do not use it to visit my COP and lie about it during an interview.
But others may go about things differently. This is just my two cents. I know I rambled on a bit, sorry.
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"In the absence of proof to the contrary, a refugee [asylee] who applies for and obtains a national passport or its renewal will be presumed to have intended to re-avail or return to the protection of the country of persecution. However, obtaining other documents, such as birth or marriage records, cannot be regarded as re-availment of protection."
Source: USCIS Adjudicator's Field Manual, Chapter 53.3.
Source: USCIS Adjudicator's Field Manual, Chapter 53.3.
You posted that at the same time as I was making an edit (adding some things) to my post above. And as what I added above says, I agree about the presumption part, but just like what that clause said in your post, "in the absence of proof to the contrary" it applies. Just like two married people residing in two different states may arise presumption that their union is not real and may be fraud, but if that couple proves why they are residing in two states, it is not a problem. I understand the presumption part, but what I said was it is not dangerous unless you went to your COP without a good emeregency reason. Like I said I talked to an INS officer and mentioned to him renewing my NP and using it to visit some other countries(other than my COP) and his response was positive. I think one would fear difficulty if they visited their COP (witout an emergency situation) with or without renewing their passport.thankful said:
And the clause in your post says it raises presumption that the person wil return to their home country. But I have not visited my COP and therefore they do not need to wonder if I did or not because I have not. And as for whether I will visit after my citizenship, well, who knows what wil happen to my country. They even can not say teh country's situation will remain teh same so noone can presume that your country will never be safe for you. You only can talk for yesterday and today. And as unlikely as it may sound right now, 4 years down the line some things may change in my country that I personally will feel no fear of living there and I may not even apply for a US citizenship then. And if I am asked during my citizensip interview whether I intend to go back to my home country ten years down the line, I will give the same answer. Just like if I was a person during their GC interview for a mariage-based petition was asked if I am still going to be married ten years down the line, my answer would not be "sure", but "who knows". I may be but maybe unfortunately the marriage may be broken by then. Contrary to all the laws and seemingly black-and-white nature of things with INS, sensibility and honesty goes a long way.
And like I said I called INS and asked if I can still use my NP for some visits to certain countries and the officer said "sure" (I did my duty by going by the book). So if renewing your passport was such an issue, using it woudl have been too. I think the only thing one has to fear is if they lie in their citizenship application and say they have not gone to COP and it is found out that they have OR if they visit their COP without having any proof of emergency regardless of whether their passport was renewed or not.
But thankful, I am thankful that you and other posters are doing their best to make sure people here know all the regulations and rules and possible difficulties. I appreciate that intention, so thanks.
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Punjabi_Munda
Registered Users (C)
To Thankful
Thankful, good job digging up it up but keep in mind that this is from the manual for adjudicators who are working on your GC applications. The person following this manual will be looking at your I-485 while you are an Asylee or a Refugee. Once you got the GC, which I might point out is not a CONDITIONAL GC like marriage based, I think the manual for the citizenship applications should apply to us.
I doubt if you'll find something of this nature in the citizenship manual. Truth or Dare? Dare... if you'd care to to do some more digging
Thankful, good job digging up it up but keep in mind that this is from the manual for adjudicators who are working on your GC applications. The person following this manual will be looking at your I-485 while you are an Asylee or a Refugee. Once you got the GC, which I might point out is not a CONDITIONAL GC like marriage based, I think the manual for the citizenship applications should apply to us.
I doubt if you'll find something of this nature in the citizenship manual. Truth or Dare? Dare... if you'd care to to do some more digging
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