USC rejected - what to do next ?

[optimum2b]

It has been 5.5 years after getting the green card and have lived in the States for over 36 months in the past 5 years ... I was traveling overseas for about 1.5 years of my residency, but made sure to visit back home once in 6 months (no stays outside the US for over 6 months).

I applied for USC after completing 90 days of returning. FP notice came in 5 weeks and I completed the same. During my interview last week, the IO reviewed my case and asked me questions about my stay outside the US. I clearly mentioned to him this was business related and that there was no stay over 6 months. However, he told me to reapply after living continuously in the US for a year. My job requires me to travel overseas. Anybody in similar situation ? Please share your experience/idea.

 

[boatbod]

optimum2b - what you describe is not unusual. Basically it sounds like the IO questioned your intent to reside in the US, and determined that you hadn't adequately demonstrated such due to your frequent long trips. Once you get the official denial you have 30 days to appeal. Ultimately this process will put you in front of an immigration judge, and I expect you would prevail at that point. Might be expensive though.

immigrateful - I hope you are reading this as I believe it adequately demonstrates the somewhat arbitrary outcome for people with continuous residence issues.

 

[Bobsmyth]

It has been 5.5 years after getting the green card and have lived in the States for over 36 months in the past 5 years ... I was traveling overseas for about 1.5 years of my residency, but made sure to visit back home once in 6 months (no stays outside the US for over 6 months).

I applied for USC after completing 90 days of returning. FP notice came in 5 weeks and I completed the same. During my interview last week, the IO reviewed my case and asked me questions about my stay outside the US. I clearly mentioned to him this was business related and that there was no stay over 6 months. However, he told me to reapply after living continuously in the US for a year. My job requires me to travel overseas. Anybody in similar situation ? Please share your experience/idea.

Can you provide more details on your travel timeline? For example, how long were the trips, was it a US company, and how long did you stay in US between trips?

 

[Jackolantern]

Another example of why the "coming back once every six months" is not a good strategy.

 

[warlord]

Another example of why the "coming back once every six months" is not a good strategy.

Yep people seem to think comming back for a brief visit will just solve anything. People need to realize you can't just come to the US to visit every 6 months, you need to live in the US and visit the other places for less then 6 months.

Work related situations you should have got the form that preserves your status (not n470), can't recall the name of it. But that would preserve your residency if you qaulified because you were working for a US employer...

 

[Jojo72]

Green Card Surfing

I remember a friend of mine who worked for the US embassy overseas referring to the 6 month in and out of the US as " Green Card Surfing ". Immigration is very much aware of that kind of behavior and it is very much frowned upon.

 

[krajan02]

I have somewhat of a similar situation. I have 3 long stays (each less then 6 months) during the last five years but for the past 1 and 1/2 years i have been in the US continuously. The office did ask me about the trip but didnt seem to mind too much about it. All my trips were personal and not work related so i never worked outside.

Having said that my application is still not over. I finished the interview successfully but was missing some docs like birth certs etc and I provided by mail.

Awaiting a final decision.

-Krish

 

[immigrateful]

It has been 5.5 years after getting the green card and have lived in the States for over 36 months in the past 5 years ... I was traveling overseas for about 1.5 years of my residency, but made sure to visit back home once in 6 months (no stays outside the US for over 6 months).

I applied for USC after completing 90 days of returning. FP notice came in 5 weeks and I completed the same. During my interview last week, the IO reviewed my case and asked me questions about my stay outside the US. I clearly mentioned to him this was business related and that there was no stay over 6 months. However, he told me to reapply after living continuously in the US for a year. My job requires me to travel overseas. Anybody in similar situation ? Please share your experience/idea.

My situation is very similar as far as back-to-back trips go. I have 4 of them with just 1 week stay in the US. My interview lasted about 10 minutes and the IO asked me all the relevant questions about the CR issue. She also asked me to send proof of residency documents after which she said she would approve. I have sent those documents and am now anticipating an approval notice.

The primary differences between our cases - my trips were forced upon me due to family/personal reasons. I applied for citizenship 1.5 years after my last entry to the US. In those 1.5 years, I had again made 2 trips outside the US of 5 weeks duration.

IMO the key differentiator between our cases is the 90 days - you applied too soon. This is one of the factors they look at in such cases.

Optimum2b - if you think your job will still take you overseas in the next 1 year or so, you should immediately download, fill out the N-470 and send it to the USCIS and re-apply after a year as the IO said. If this is urgent for you then the other approach is to do as Boatbod is saying - to contest this within the legal framework. Bulk of the fees will be the immigration attorney's fees. The contesting charges are not too high. If you have the time, you can even do it your self - I do not know how it works exactly but it should be a simple and straightforward process.

 

[immigrateful]

optimum2b - what you describe is not unusual. Basically it sounds like the IO questioned your intent to reside in the US, and determined that you hadn't adequately demonstrated such due to your frequent long trips. Once you get the official denial you have 30 days to appeal. Ultimately this process will put you in front of an immigration judge, and I expect you would prevail at that point. Might be expensive though.

immigrateful - I hope you are reading this as I believe it adequately demonstrates the somewhat arbitrary outcome for people with continuous residence issues.

Yes, I am - look at post #7 krajan02 has a similar case as mine and no problems - just like me (hopefully).

 

[immigrateful]

Yep people seem to think comming back for a brief visit will just solve anything. People need to realize you can't just come to the US to visit every 6 months, you need to live in the US and visit the other places for less then 6 months.

Work related situations you should have got the form that preserves your status (not n470), can't recall the name of it. But that would preserve your residency if you qaulified because you were working for a US employer...

This is a somewhat gray area and I think most people who do this are usually in a situation that forces them to do this. The USCIS will still approve cases if you can establish:

1. You did not plan this out at the outset.
2. You were still a resident of the US when you were making 6 month visits outside the USA.
3. That you will continue to live in the US after obtaining citizenship
4. If this is for work purposes - you filed the N470

Applying after a substantial duration (more than 1 year) once you are back in the USA can also help.

 

[immigrateful]

optimum2b - what you describe is not unusual. Basically it sounds like the IO questioned your intent to reside in the US, and determined that you hadn't adequately demonstrated such due to your frequent long trips. Once you get the official denial you have 30 days to appeal. Ultimately this process will put you in front of an immigration judge, and I expect you would prevail at that point. Might be expensive though.

immigrateful - I hope you are reading this as I believe it adequately demonstrates the somewhat arbitrary outcome for people with continuous residence issues.

...and perhaps the title for this post could also be changed to something like "Citizenship denied due to continuous residency issues". That will attract the right people for whom this thread can be very useful.

 

[saf]

Sorry to hear that, optimum2b

You might show the proof to the judge if you want to appeal.
1) show the job description that you require to work overseas or employer letter that states that you require to work overseas
2) show paystubs (in the amount in US currency)
3) show tax returns
4) show airline tickets if available -- you mention that you come back every 6 months. show how long you stay in usa between trips.
5) show any other supporting documents. Did you apply for continuing residence?

Please provide more details so we can understand and help you out.

 

[saf]

Some people never listened to advices/suggestions about travelling:

1) Never book a trip between filing day and oath day. After FP date, booking a trip is okay, but it is not recommended.

2) Not to travel too much between gc date and oath date. Maybe travel for a short period of time once a year may be okay. Travelling frequently per year is not recommended.

Many Reasons:
1) Traveling is very expensive. Try to save money.
2) Sometimes USCIS officer wonder why you travelled too much. Sometimes they have hard time to believe or they are sometimes skeptical. They could deny it. I have seen many cases.
3) Sometimes you could miss FP, interview, or oath if you travel between filing and oath.
4) Sometimes USCIS staff messes up with computer system or too lazy to update when he/she tries to update/reschedule FP, interview, or oath. or never received your request to re-schedule.
5) Sometimes border control officer doesn't stamp entry date on passport so USCIS officer sometimes has hard time to believe.

I do understand that people need vacation, but they need to understand that the process of becoming a US citizen doesn't take too long. (much shorter than green card process). I know sometimes it takes too long because of namecheck. Just try to be patient and don't give up hopes.

I do understand that they are required to work overseas, but they need to understand that working overseas too long or traveling frequently as a permanent resident before becoming a US citizen is very risky because you could lose permanent residency. I suggest that they need to postpone working overseas trip or start looking for another job or another project.

 

[Bobsmyth]

1) Never book a trip between filing day and oath day. After FP date, booking a trip is okay, but it is not recommended.

Travel is a reality of life for many; be it business , vacation or family. Advising not to travel at all between filing and oath is not realistic in today's world. This is not to say that people shouldn't make arrangements for their mail to be checked while they are gone or not to pay attention to the residency requirements and potential implications of frequent travel.

5) Sometimes border control officer doesn't stamp entry date on passport so USCIS officer sometimes has hard time to believe.

Not having a passport stamped during reentry is not a issue since your GC or passport is scanned. USCIS has your entry records on their system.

I do understand that people need vacation, but they need to understand that the process of becoming a US citizen doesn't take too long. (much shorter than green card process). I know sometimes it takes too long because of namecheck. Just try to be patient and don't give up hopes.

This is misleading. The processing times for naturalization has surpassed over 10 months at many DOs, and this does not even take into account name checks delays.

I do understand that they are required to work overseas, but they need to understand that working overseas too long or traveling frequently as a permanent resident before becoming a US citizen is very risky because you could lose permanent residency. I suggest that they need to postpone working overseas trip or start looking for another job or another project.

In many cases, working overseas is not an issue with the proper documentation (N-470). Advising to postpone a promotion or overseas trip without mentioning the options available is incomplete at best.

 

[aabbcc11]

Excellent points from Bob. In today's world travel is not a luxury but an essential part of living and working. To put things on hold for 5 yrs between GC and N 400 is an absurd idea.

The OP's case is completely different from Immigrateful. I have just glanced throuhg this thread but see that the OP had basically just 90 days residency and no serious ties while Immigrateful had applied after living in the US for 1.5 yrs continuosly. Apples and oranges imo.

 

[saf]

ok Bobsymth. You got points based on your experience, but some points are not correct. You know how strict USCIS are and how good they are doing jobs.

USCIS has entry records? Are you sure? They sometimes don't scan the visa waiver passport and sometimes scan the visa waiver passport. They sometimes only verify and don't scan into entry record. Two friends of mine from Canada (husband and wife) drove across the peace bridge to visit me and show their Canadian passports. US border guard didn't scan them and only checked their passports and then let them enter USA. It is very surprinsing. USCIS or border control is not perfect as they should be responsible doing their jobs.

 

[Bobsmyth]

USCIS has entry records? Are you sure? They sometimes don't scan the visa waiver passport and sometimes scan the visa waiver passport. They sometimes only verify and don't scan into entry record. Two friends of mine from Canada (husband and wife) drove across the peace bridge to visit me and show their Canadian passports. US border guard didn't scan them and only checked their passports and then let them enter USA. It is very surprinsing. USCIS or border control is not perfect as they should be responsible doing their jobs.

If you're referring to the US land border crossings from Canada it's a known fact that they have cameras that record your car license plate number. The information gathered is shared between both CBP and CBSA and serves as a record of your entry.

 

[yummyk]

ok Bobsymth. You got points based on your experience, but some points are not correct. You know how strict USCIS are and how good they are doing jobs.

USCIS has entry records? Are you sure? They sometimes don't scan the visa waiver passport and sometimes scan the visa waiver passport. They sometimes only verify and don't scan into entry record. Two friends of mine from Canada (husband and wife) drove across the peace bridge to visit me and show their Canadian passports. US border guard didn't scan them and only checked their passports and then let them enter USA. It is very surprinsing. USCIS or border control is not perfect as they should be responsible doing their jobs.

You are correct in that DHS does not have an electronic scan of every passport or GC used to enter the country, particularly at land border crossings. However, there is no obligation for them to stamp your passport or to scan it: it is done at the discretion of the officer at the port of entry. As GC holders, people are responsible for keeping track of all their travel outside the US, but sometimes it just isn't possible to recollect every trip that you took. This is especially true for people who have lived here for a long time as a GC holder or for people who did not decide to become citizens until long after they were LPRs.

However, even if you don't have all your travel dates, one can provide a good faith estimate and then back this up to show that one's intent was to continue to reside within the US. There are ample ways to do this: employment, mortgage, tax information etc. etc. etc. As long as an applicant has met the statutory requirements for physical presence and continuous residence then the only thing that migt be an issue, with respect to travel, might be one "GC surfing" as noted above - continuous back to back trips of many months, which can call into question the intent of an applicant. Not taking small trips, not going on vacation and not traveling on business seems like a bit of an overreaction to this. There are thousands og GC holders who cross the border every day, and for those of us who live close to an international border it seems absurd to not cross the border from the time you get your GC to the time you become a citizen.

Again, I think it starts to become an issue as one approaches the "limits" of physical presence and continuous residence. Unless there is clear reason to deny the application (over the statutory limits, question of GC surfing etc.) based on foreign travel then I am not sure what the USCIS would gain by doing this...it will only be reversed on appeal - either an administrative appeal or an appeal to the courts.

 

[saf]

If you're referring to the US land border crossings from Canada it's a known fact that they have cameras that record your car license plate number. The information gathered is shared between both CBP and CBSA and serves as a record of your entry.

Yes, I am referring to land border crossing. Capturing car license plate for records or capturing facial image of every person in a vehicle won't help much. What about passengers (friends, relatives, immediate family, etc) in a vehicle? It is really difficult to capture facial image of each passenger in a vechicle from every angle.

If you say that they have cameras that record your car license plate number, that's true. but what if a person borrows someone's car? What if a person drives a stolen car? what if person's car license number is misplaced/stolen?

As you can see, it is not perfect.

 

[Bobsmyth]

Yes, I am referring to land border crossing. Capturing car license plate for records or capturing facial image of every person in a vehicle won't help much. What about passengers (friends, relatives, immediate family, etc) in a vehicle? It is really difficult to capture facial image of each passenger in a vechicle from every angle.

If you say that they have cameras that record your car license plate number, that's true. but what if a person borrows someone's car? What if a person drives a stolen car? what if person's car license number is misplaced/stolen?

As you can see, it is not perfect.

The questions the officer asks at the border normally weeds those out. If the car registration doesn't match the identity of the driver or if the car is stolen you can bet the line of questioning will catch that.