UCIS Proposes to end Labor Substitutuion Facility!!!!!

[vicky007]

Labor substitution to Come to an End

DOL Proposes to Eliminate Substitution and to Mandate Use of Certified Labor Certification.

http://www.immigration-law.com/

On May 12, 2005, last Thursday, the DOL submitted to the White House OMB for its review a "proposed" regulation in order to remove the substitution of the alien beneficiary and to require filing of I-140 petition within 45 days of the certification of the ETA 750 or ETA 9089.

The Department of Labor is proposing changes reportedly to reduce the incentives and opportunities for fraud and abuse related to the permanent employment of aliens in the United States. Among other key changes, the Department is proposing to eliminate the current practice of allowing the substitution of alien beneficiaries on applications and approved labor certifications. DOL is proposing to further reduce the likelihood of the submission of fraudulent applications for the permanent employment of aliens in the United States by proposing a 45-day deadline for employers to file approved permanent labor certifications in support of a petition with the Department of Homeland Security. The proposed rule expressly prohibits the sale, barter, or purchase of permanent labor certifications or applications, as well as related payments. DOL will also propose enforcement mechanisms to protect program integrity, including debarment with appeal rights. These proposed amendments would apply to employers using both the Application for Alien Employment Certification (Form ETA 750) or the Application for Permanent Employment Certification (Form ETA 9089).

This is a proposed rule and it may take some time before it is made a final or interim rule. However, sometimes, agencies changed or revised during the process of the OMB reviews from the proposed regulation to interim regulation or vice versa.

 

[desi_consultant]

Great!!

Lets hope that it gets approved. It'll free all of us from the shackles of pre-approved labor traders. And also help immensely with PD forward movement.

 

[catch_22_4_GC]

Everyone should support this regulation by DOL. It would put an end to Black Marketers/Profiteers as well as people who try to jump ahead of the queue by simply buying their way out. Companies that either barter or sell LC's are nothing more than organized crime syndicates.

 

[GC_Lover]

Everyone should support this regulation by DOL. It would put an end to Black Marketers/Profiteers as well as people who try to jump ahead of the queue by simply buying their way out. Companies that either barter or sell LC's are nothing more than organized crime syndicates.

I totally I agree with you, we should all support this. I will get rid of those cheap employers who try to attract people on basis of LC substitution and do not offer regular pay. I think filing 140 within 45 days after LC is good idea, that way employers cannot hold our LC saying that its still in process.

 

[Gc_puli]

I love this move by DOL & USCIS. This will end folks asking directly an approved labor (with PD 2002) and trading.

Though my labor approved last week, I welcome this move.

 

[jus_watching]

I totally I agree with you, we should all support this. I will get rid of those cheap employers who try to attract people on basis of LC substitution and do not offer regular pay. I think filing 140 within 45 days after LC is good idea, that way employers cannot hold our LC saying that its still in process.

Oh I'd sure like to see THAT '45-day letter'

 

[vjkiran]

This is a great move by USCIS.
There are some companies who will sell their employee's LC's for big amount and cheat their own employees.

vj

 

[greatgc]

This MUST be a welcome move for ALL of us following the fule and waiting in queue for years. While some other people (who are born laborers) are willing to work at the lowest possible rate JUST for the sake of the stupid GC.

There are companies, changing names of the benneficiaries, EVEN after filing some the 140 on some one's name.

ie. Use person A's approved labor for substitution for person B. IF they can replace person B by person C (big jerk undermining every one's rate) - who is desparetly seeking for approved substitution and willing to work for almost free. Worst yet, they don't tell employee B, what manipulation they r doing with employee B's case - THIS CHEAP EMPLOYERS and WORST YET , the people buying substitution ALC.


I think the DOL should go one more step further- they should REVOKE ALL substitution applications, in process for i-485 appovals. i.e. If using substituion, some one's 140 IS approved BUT 485 IS still pending, in such cases USCIS and DOL should revoke applications like this, and ask those idiot's to RE-FILE unde PERM. What will happen to theose whose 485's are pending ????

Thanks





**********************

This is a great move by USCIS.
There are some companies who will sell their employee's LC's for big amount and cheat their own employees.

vj

 

[neocor]

Most thoughful by UCICS

This is the best thing to be done by the UCICS. I hope they rush this rule as early as possible.

Although this will be a set back to some of us who are desperately trying to get onto the GC bandwagon in their 6th year on H1.

In the long run it is going to be benificial to every GC seeker and a hard slap on the face of most of the consulting companies who play with our lives by making a bussiness out of selling Labor. I am sure a number of Consulting companies will go out of bussiness just because of this single ruling.

I can see the following immediate benifits from this.

1. Huge setback to all the rouge consulting companies whose bussiness model is solely to exploit this rule. These companies cheat even their existing employees. The lure of extra $10k-$15K will be gone and hence they wont have incentives to play with your GC.
2. Will help in the forward movement of the Priority Dates for EB3. A majority of people whose Labor has been pending since 2000/2001 in the blacklog reduction center have already left their companies. Therefore these companies will now be forced to forefit the Labor application when the 45 day letter arrives rather than requesting to continue. This has two fold advantages, one the backlog reduction center will process faster, second lesser number of Visa numbers will be utilized from the 2000/2001/2002 years which will help in the forward movement of the Priority dates in future.

Way to go UCICS

 

[MA_Labor]

Boy! So much bitterness. I agree 100 percent that there are many unscrupulous individuals who would seek to take advantage of the vulnerable and desperate positions in which many immigrants find themselves. But you also have to keep in mind that these people exploit their H1-B employees too. Does this mean that the entire H1-B program should be scrapped?

I think that you are crossing the line by accusing everyone who’s ever used Labor Substitution as trying to undercut wages. There are lots of times, when due to genuine circumstances people are not able to get a GC within the 6 years of H1-B timeframe. For those people Labor Substitution is the last and only resort. You would have appreciated it more if you had ever gone through such circumstances. I have been through it and therefore I tend to take your comments a bit personally.

What’s the difference between you and the person who thinks that the entire immigrant community is undermining the wages of Americans?

This MUST be a welcome move for ALL of us following the fule and waiting in queue for years. While some other people (who are born laborers) are willing to work at the lowest possible rate JUST for the sake of the stupid GC.

There are companies, changing names of the benneficiaries, EVEN after filing some the 140 on some one's name.

ie. Use person A's approved labor for substitution for person B. IF they can replace person B by person C (big jerk undermining every one's rate) - who is desparetly seeking for approved substitution and willing to work for almost free. Worst yet, they don't tell employee B, what manipulation they r doing with employee B's case - THIS CHEAP EMPLOYERS and WORST YET , the people buying substitution ALC.


I think the DOL should go one more step further- they should REVOKE ALL substitution applications, in process for i-485 appovals. i.e. If using substituion, some one's 140 IS approved BUT 485 IS still pending, in such cases USCIS and DOL should revoke applications like this, and ask those idiot's to RE-FILE unde PERM. What will happen to theose whose 485's are pending ????

Thanks





**********************

 

[MadeOneMistake]

Huh!

And what about all those who already got it using Labor sub.. as per you they all should be robbed off their cards as well.. Just because some you happen to get it as per the rules you like, you cant hate some for getting it as per the rules that THEY like..

I am working for the same company for last 4 years.. Company wanted to file my labor.. prepared all the docs.. In th end changed policy because they laid off some people citing the economy of that time(2001-2002). So my company stictly folled the DOL guidelines and didn't apply my labor as I had plenty of time left on H-1.

Now when I was about to read my 6th year, company wants to keep me.. Options - Use sub labor. And they did that..

What did I do wrong? And what did my company do wrong? Did I jump the queue.. NO.

And remember, when lots of citizens were laid off during the bad times.. you guys applied for labor.. Ask yourself whether you really respected all rules.. did you really try to hire locals.. Surely not in all the cases..

However I dont sympathise with the companies who sell labor and exploit people.. But I still symphathise with ALL those who use it..

Cant they have a checkbox.. that company decare under the penalty of perjury that they have not used this labor for more than one applicant at any given time and if I-140 is approved, just lock the labor and throw away the key..

 

[greatgc]

Oops,

Niether u nor the person who posted below- deserve my feedback/comment, however I'll reply for the last time.

1. Both of u took it personally - too bad!(perhaps because, u have taken that path).

2. It 's wrong saying "since there was no other way, I did this and that."
By doing so, you compromise ethical AND moral values, JUST for some material gains.

You know what, u do that once, u repeat it here and there throught life AND
that's NOT a sign of strong character.

Labor Substitution IS /WAS UNETHICAL!!!! and no matter how much u try to cover that/put in better words, meaning remains THE SAME.




***************

Boy! So much bitterness. I agree 100 percent that there are many unscrupulous individuals who would seek to take advantage of the vulnerable and desperate positions in which many immigrants find themselves. But you also have to keep in mind that these people exploit their H1-B employees too. Does this mean that the entire H1-B program should be scrapped?

I think that you are crossing the line by accusing everyone who’s ever used Labor Substitution as trying to undercut wages. There are lots of times, when due to genuine circumstances people are not able to get a GC within the 6 years of H1-B timeframe. For those people Labor Substitution is the last and only resort. You would have appreciated it more if you had ever gone through such circumstances. I have been through it and therefore I tend to take your comments a bit personally.

What’s the difference between you and the person who thinks that the entire immigrant community is undermining the wages of Americans?

 

[neocor]

Scrapping of Labor Substituion

I wont really go as far as calling Labor Substitution as unethical. The rule is there so you may as well use it. The unethical part is the way most consulting companies use it. Unfortunately there is no way for the DOL/UCICS to police the way campanies do it and take advantage of its employees.
I know of a couple of my friends in my company here for whom the company did not apply for GC before because they were laying off people and now they are in their 6th year and the company has agreed to do Labor Substitution for them for free and their salary is not effected. This is acceptable, there is nothing unethical about it. The original employees for the labor have already left and the company is giving the Labor to another employee who has been working with them for a long time and deserves atleast this.

As I said before unfotunately cases like this are probably only 10%. The abuse of the rule is enormous. There is obviously bitterness about this from so many people who got effected because of this, and the bitterness is justified. Any rule which is used propley only 10% and abused 90% deserves to be scrapped. I know I dont have the exact figures to substantiate the 10-90, but from the number of cases that i personally know of this is a reasonable extrapolation.
Its true the H-1 rule is also abused by many companies, but the percentage of its abuse is not as great as this one. Each and every rule gets abused, and the ones that gets abused the maximum need to be scrapped. The Labor substitution rule although helpful to a few is been abused far too much, and as there is really no way for the UCISC to police this rule it deserves to be scrapped. A lot of companies lately have this as their business model. This is unethical.

 

[greatgc]

take a look at the following ad. some one forwarded
me,seems like it's from one of the leading Indian community web site.

http://www.sulekha.com/classifieds/clad.aspx?cid=449976&ref=eb2

Here I am drawing every one's attention on how these small IT consulting companies are exploiting people weaknesses.

So, some one called one of (those idiots) and here is even worse we found::

1. The person has to pay US$ 12000 for one EB2 approved LCA

2. We MUST have current project and need to transfer every thing - H1-B
with them

Here is a catch 22- on one consultant companies generally draw a profit
of atleast $50K per year.The better the consultant, more is their profit.

If this company is really able to sell all 25 LCAs, they make total
$300K over night. I am sure they will accept cash instead of credit card
or check to save taxes. Then they also make money from the candidate as
long as they have the project.
3. They file for our 140 and we can NOT have our own attorney
4. They don't show us the actual LCA we have to just "trust" them that
they are a legitimate business.

This is how the IT consulting firms dream of "getting rich quick"..Seems
like unfortunately this is some Indian small firm.

What I was wondering when I got this info. was, why is the company selling EB2 approvals now, INSTEAD OF WAITING UNTIL THE EB2 to retrogate for Indians.

I now know the equation balances:: PERHAPS this company had info. in advace that the Substituation JUNK is going to be wipped off FAST.

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANY ANONYMOUS PHONE NO. TO REPORT ANONYMOUSLY TO THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT THIS COMPANY, WHICH NEEDS TO "DESCIPLINED". BECAUSE, IF SOME EASY GOING PERSON BUYS THIS LCA S/HE WILL LOOSE THE MONEY AND COMPNAY WILL DEFEND ITSELF SAYING "THEY CAN'T HELP, UNFORTUNTELY THE LAW GOT CHANGED"

THIS IS WHY I HAVE CRITICAL COMMENTS IN THIS REGARD.


**************************************

I wont really go as far as calling Labor Substitution as unethical. The rule is there so you may as well use it. The unethical part is the way most consulting companies use it. Unfortunately there is no way for the DOL/UCICS to police the way campanies do it and take advantage of its employees.
I know of a couple of my friends in my company here for whom the company did not apply for GC before because they were laying off people and now they are in their 6th year and the company has agreed to do Labor Substitution for them for free and their salary is not effected. This is acceptable, there is nothing unethical about it. The original employees for the labor have already left and the company is giving the Labor to another employee who has been working with them for a long time and deserves atleast this.

As I said before unfotunately cases like this are probably only 10%. The abuse of the rule is enormous. There is obviously bitterness about this from so many people who got effected because of this, and the bitterness is justified. Any rule which is used propley only 10% and abused 90% deserves to be scrapped. I know I dont have the exact figures to substantiate the 10-90, but from the number of cases that i personally know of this is a reasonable extrapolation.
Its true the H-1 rule is also abused by many companies, but the percentage of its abuse is not as great as this one. Each and every rule gets abused, and the ones that gets abused the maximum need to be scrapped. The Labor substitution rule although helpful to a few is been abused far too much, and as there is really no way for the UCISC to police this rule it deserves to be scrapped. A lot of companies lately have this as their business model. This is unethical.

 

[MA_Labor]

There is obviously bitterness about this from so many people who got effected because of this, and the bitterness is justified.

Bitterness on the basis of bias is not justified. It's known as vendetta. If what you’re saying is true then racial discrimination would have been justified too.

 

[neocor]

Scrap Labor substitution

That was an excellent example greatgc, and this is what constitutes unethical. The rule itself would have been very helpful to a lot if proper rules were laid for this type abuse from the employers.
The 25 LCA's this company is having may well belong to some of the existing employees, and they are I am sure going to cheat them by saying that the LC was rejected or still awaiting. There are a lot of people who dont bother to check with the DOL about their cases. I pesonally know a lot of friends who dont bother to follow their LC application from the SWA and DOL and solely go by the word the company or the company attorney says.

The Labor Substitution rule serves very less compared to the harm it is doing to so many of us. It would be a lot better if UCICS scraps this rule and instead allows a person (for whom the LC is applied) to take the LCA with him to another company. This would serve alomost the same purpose and at the same time benefit all of us.

 

[tammy2]

In 19 century England It was allowed sell the Parliament membership. When that option was taken out there was argument that since he owns the membership he can give it any one.

 

[MA_Labor]

greatgc,
You're a freakin moron. The case that you are citing is clearly a fraud. I bet the guy doesn't event have any pre-approved labors available. He's just an unscrupulous individual trying to lure desperate people into his trap. In fact this company is well known over these boards for conducting such fraudulent practices. Even a five year old could have figured that out.
You are clearly out of line by demeaning everyone who’s ever used labor substitution. Looks like you have tough time getting your facts straight. Strong character doesn’t show in your posts. To me you’re just self-pitying, egomaniac piece of ****. So get lost.

 

[neocor]

Bitterness on the basis of bias is not justified. It's known as vendetta. If what you’re saying is true then racial discrimination would have been justified too.

You are now comparing apple and oranges.
I only said the rule is there and if used properly then there is nothing unethical about it. The bitterness comes from hundreds of people who have been cheated by their employers for the sake of extra $12K-$15K.
If you have benefited from this then its good for you, and if your company did it in good faith without cheating anyone (the original benefactor) its done correctly and ethically. I am all for it if done correctly and not misused, I have nothing against the people who get benefit from it and can extend their stay beyond the 6th year.
Only problem is mojority have sufferred rather than benefitted from this.

This was a rule originally made to benefit people and supposed to help. Racial Descrimination was no rule and was neither supposed to help anyone in the first place.

I am sure even if you yourself are the benefactor of this, you know that how badly this is misused by the companies. Also the bitterness is not against the people who buy the Labor its against the companies who misuse it, so its not on the basis of bias.

 

[MA_Labor]

You are now comparing apple and oranges.
I only said the rule is there and if used properly then there is nothing unethical about it. The bitterness comes from hundreds of people who have been cheated by their employers for the sake of extra $12K-$15K.

I am absolutely not comparing apples with oranges. It is understandable if someone is bitter at employers who take advantage of innocent people. But the above poster is accusing every one who's ever used labor substitution of being unethical. He is accusing them of undermining wages and has used humiliating language. He is doing so based on his prejudiced opinion. That’s exactly same as people discriminating against you because of color, creed or religion.