traffic tickets

svasudev

Registered Users (C)
does one really have to list traffic tickets in the N400 ? seems ridiculous to me unless they are DUI or accident related.
I have absolutely no records of my speeding tickets (other than what I can get from my current insurance policy)
Most state DMV's drop traffic ticket information every year and definitely off the record and database (this means INS / homeland security cannot get this data either) in 3 years ....

What happens if one does not list traffic offenses in the N400 application ?

thanks
vasu
 
Covered many times

>does one really have to list traffic tickets in the N400 ? seems ridiculous to >me unless they are DUI or accident related.
>I have absolutely no records of my speeding tickets (other than what I can >get from my current insurance policy)

Vasu - My lawyer advised me to disclose all traffic tickets (including speeding, etc). There is some lengthy debate on this subject, but since it does not hurt your application anyhow, it may be better to be safe than sorry. I think the legacy of this change (old N400's used to exclude traffic tickets) is that (per USCIS docs) that in some states, simple traffic ticket non payment results in a suspension of license and a court date gets set. If a person were negligent, there is a warrant out of their arrest for not appearing in court while they may be unaware of it. If you have a warrant out, you are automatically excluded. So, it sounded to me like USCIS is mostly concerned that you paid your ticket. Most states allow you to get a copy of your driving record that shows incidents and also payment information. I got this, disclosed what was on the report and sent in a copy (per the lawyers request).

>Most state DMV's drop traffic ticket information every year and definitely off >the record and database (this means INS / homeland security cannot get >this data either) in 3 years ....
Actually it is 7 years in most states and some of them keep records longer..There was a ticket on file in West Virginia from 1991 (though the record does not show it). I did include information about that and mentioned that it was expunged from the printout due to the fact that it was so old.

>What happens if one does not list traffic offenses in the N400 application ?
Some people seem to get away with it, but seems safer to disclose

--Gaude
 
svasudev said:
does one really have to list traffic tickets in the N400 ?

I did

svasudev said:
What happens if one does not list traffic offenses in the N400 application ?

in the event of they would out you lie under oath, they would denial your n400 application. i do not know if they would go future to revoke your citizenship even yours was granted. however, i would not put my future at risk for not disclosing few traffic tickets.
 
In every state (to my knowledge) non payment of a traffic citation results in a bench warrant - this means that they will not come looking for you, but, if you get stopped for some traffic related offense, the bench warrant will get you arrested.
Also, some states do NOT honour traffic violation reports from other states e.g. NY will disregard traffic violation reports from most of the states !
Some states do not report violation reports to other states if the speeding offense is within 10 mph of the limit.
So, unless one is willing to spend money by sending out report requests to every state in the US (and Canada as well since some Canadian provinces report to some US states e.g. Quebec to NY and strangely NY records Quebec offenses as points) there is no way to collect a complete traffic violation history on anyone. This is why even Auto insurance companies prefer to ask applicants for priors than to check records with every State DMV.

Has anyone ever had an issue with not reporting traffic violations in the N400 ?

-Vasu
 
How Many?

You are prolly right. I don't even think it is even state wide...The traffic tickets are county based. So, if you get a ticket in Colorado in some county and colorado does not forward tickets to massachusetts, I suspect the ticket is sitting in the county office in Colorado (I think anyway, not sure). If you have a mass license, it may not show up on your record, though I am not sure a state search in Colorado would show the ticket or not...

I am sure the USCIS has no logistical way to gather information from every state, but it is more a question of how safe and forthcoming you want to be. Similar to insurance companies, USCIS, I am sure expects people to be as forthcoming as possible. I just got my driving record for the last 14 years and disclosed everything that was on my record and anything that I vaguely remembered (1 ticket in the last 5 years and about 6 over 14 years). How many tickets do you have?

The lawyer also mentioned that if you don't recall dates, etc, to put in a note saying it was "around" this time, what the ticket was for and if you paid it.

-- Gaude
 
For what it is worth

http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/congress/testimonies/1998/980305.pdf

That is the document where the INS defends removing "excluding minor traffic violations" from the N-400 application. It is not an oversight, but a very conscious decision. So, it would seem that disclosing is in the spirit of what USCIS wants...

Proposed amendment: According to proposed new § 332(a)(i)(2) of the Act, an applicant shall be required to describe any criminal offenses, other than minor traffic violations, during the course of the mandatory interview.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------INS response: This provision is unnecessary. It is already an INS policy requirement that naturalization applicants be requested to submit final dispositions for all criminal offenses. In the alternative we request that this language be amended to omit references to "minor traffic violations." To leave this reference in place could prove confusing and misleading, and could result in an applicant's withholding information that is relevant to his or her application. Depending on the actual statutory elements of an offense, what may be called "minor traffic violations" could render an applicant ineligible for naturalization. For example, in California, failure to appear in court, a violation of § 40508A of the Vehicle Code, and failure to pay a fine, a violation of § 40508B of the Vehicle Code, are both misdemeanor violations, regardless of the underlying offenses. Accordingly, if an applicant for naturalization has recently failed to pay a fine resulting from a simple parking ticket, he or she may have been convicted of a misdemeanor offense of failure to pay the fine, and may be on probation. An applicant who is on probation is ineligible to naturalize. Again, depending on the state, an examining officer may be compelled to investigate "minor" traffic violations, because they may lead to offenses or dispositions that render an applicant ineligible for naturalization by statute. The proposed amendment in the bill is too limiting and does not take into account local or state law.

-- Gaude
 
Parking or speeding tickets?

Do we have to disclose even parking tickets if it is paid?!! I thought you have to disclose only moving or spreeding violations only, right?
 
Parking tickets

I did not disclose parking tickets...though based on the last post, one may argue that you ought to. However, since my driving record shows that my license is valid till 2007, that may be sufficient for the interview (meaning, I have actually paid all my parking citations).

JoeF - you are welcome...

-- Gaude
 
yas804 said:
Do we have to disclose even parking tickets if it is paid?!! I thought you have to disclose only moving or spreeding violations only, right?

i believe you hae to disclose any moving voilations only.

someone could drive your car, and got a parking tickets. it is not necessary your fault. however, if that person does not pay the ticket, you will get in trouble (if more parking tickets are being unpaid).
 
Argh...lost that...

I had composed a long post...got a server is too busy went I posted...argh. Lemme try again.

So, yesterday, just for sh**s and giggles, I called the National Service Center to see what their take on traffic tickets were. After a long hold, finally I got a nice lady on the phone. I asked her what the official position of USCIS was regarding disclosing traffic and parking tickets. After some amount of computer and (presumably) script lookup, she responded with "Clearly, minor traffic tickets and parking tickets do not need to be disclosed". So, then I checked case law on find law to see if I could find any denials for civil infractions. I found 3 interesting cases. I am pasting the information below.

Case 1:
Alcohol Dependence or Alcohol Abuse as Evidence of Lack of Good Moral Character, Immigration and Nationality Law Handbook, 2004-05 Ed., Vol.1, citing to 8 CFR §316.10(a)(2) and Interpretation 316.1(e).
States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division, found that an alien who had 16 traffic tickets between September 1956 and June 1958 involving speeding 5-10 mph over limit, improper or prohibited turns, failure to change address on driver’s license, insufficient lights, driving the wrong way on a one-way street, excessive noise, and failure to stop after slightly damaging an automobile was eligible for U.S. citizenship. In the court’s view, the traffic tickets did not warrant denial of the petition for Naturalization. The Odeh Court explained that the applicant’s actions did not constitute the incidents envisioned by Congress as detracting from a person’s qualification for citizenship.

Case 2:
Last year, in Cajiao v. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services of the Dept. of Homeland Security, Civil Action No. H-03-2582 (2004), the District Court for the Southern District of Texas, Houston Division, also held that an applicant who had been convicted of a DWI did not lack “good moral character.” The applicant in Cajiao admitted that he was guilty of driving while intoxicated. However, the applicant contended that he became intoxicated involuntarily as the result of inhaling paint fumes at his place of employment in December 1998. USCIS insisted that the applicant failed to accept responsibility for his crime of DWI because he continued to argue that he was not voluntarily intoxicated and because he failed to complete the terms of his probation. On those grounds, it denied him citizenship. The court reversed the USCIS decision.

Case 3:
Recently the author was able to successfully reverse a denial of a Naturalization Application. The applicant for U.S. citizenship had received nine civil infractions most of which resulted from speeding 10-20 mph. However, at least two of the nine civil infractions were due to vehicular collisions and driving without a license. The applicant did not disclose these civil infractions on Form N-400 Application for Naturalization after being advised by a USCIS National Customer Service representative that traffic tickets were not the type of violations that needed to be disclosed on the Naturalization Application. During the Naturalization interview, however, the applicant voluntarily disclosed that he had received nine traffic tickets during the previous five years. The Naturalization Application was denied on grounds that the applicant’s history of civil infractions demonstrated a disregard for the traffic laws of the United States and, thus, the applicant was charged with lacking “good moral character.” The author appealed the denial of U.S. citizenship and was granted the relief requested: reversal of the previous decision and the approval of the Application for Naturalization. Based on this experience, it is the author’s recommendation that applicants for U.S. citizenship disclose civil infractions on FormN-400 even if not required to do so. In a separate page, an applicant should describe the nature of the civil infraction(s), the disposition of the matter, such as whether fines were assessed and paid and, if probation was imposed, whether the applicant complied with the terms of his or her probation. Failure to disclose civil infractions on a Naturalization Application could result in a finding that the applicant lied to obtain an immigration benefit. The process to obtain a reversal on a decision to deny U.S. citizenship can be very time consuming and costly.The proper procedure to be followed by an applicant denied U.S. citizenship on this or any other ground is to file a motion for a new hearing on Form N-336 with the district office where the Naturalization interview took place. The motion should request a new hearing with a different interviewing officer and must lay out all the facts surrounding the previous interview and explain in detail the reason(s) why the decision on Naturalization must be reversed. Most requests are resolved at the district level. An applicant for U.S. citizenship whose Naturalization Application has been denied should retain legal counsel for the appeal process. Failing to follow the proper procedures established by USCIS for appealing a denial of U.S. citizenship could have devastating consequences for Permanent Residents.

Author of this article (not Gaude...lol) - Ileana McAlary is an associate of Miller Johnson, with offices in Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo, Michigan. Ileana is a graduate of Wayne State University Law School and she studied at the University of Havana Law School in Havana City, Cuba for two years. Ileana is fluent in Spanish and focuses her practice on the areas of immigration law and business law. Welcome!We are pleased to bring you the ABA International Law and Practice Section: Immigration and Naturalization Committee Newsletter. Please send all future submissions and/or suggestions to either Susan Cohen atscohen@mintz.comDisclaimer: The materials contained herein represent the opinions of the authors and editors and should notbe construed to be those of either the American Bar Association or Immigration Section. Nothing contained herein is to be considered as the rendering of legal advice for specific cases, and readers are responsible for obtaining such advice from their own legal counsel. These materials and any forms and agreements herein are intended for educational and informational purposes only.

So, it appears to me (Gaude), that the NSC information is dated. Please do include all traffic tickets...They should not affect your application. Even in dire cases, where people were driving like nutters, they seem to have reversed the denial. Seems that if you are a reasonable driver and not a menace to society (specifically during the statutory period), you should have no issues. Pay no heed to the NSC script readers...

Hope that helps
-- Gaude
 
svasudev said:
does one really have to list traffic tickets in the N400 ? seems ridiculous to me unless they are DUI or accident related.
I have absolutely no records of my speeding tickets (other than what I can get from my current insurance policy)
Most state DMV's drop traffic ticket information every year and definitely off the record and database (this means INS / homeland security cannot get this data either) in 3 years ....

What happens if one does not list traffic offenses in the N400 application ?

thanks
vasu

Much of what USCIS / INS does is laugable - but, still you need to play by their rules. I strongly suggest - ridiculous or not - to err on the side of caution. After all, it takes a little bit more leg work but, potentially avoid a lot of hassles later.

I personally got DMV records for me and my spouse from every state we ever held drivers license with - 4 states in total - just to be on the safeside. In fact, I had records of some tickets that were dropped from State records but, I listed them anyway.

good luck,

Amy
 
If you did not list them in application, you have to list them during the interview, whether or not they ask you about it during the interview. It will not hurt your case. I did not know I had to list them either and then I told about them in the interview. I am still waiting for my oath though but hopefully it should not affect the case. Nevertheless it is required by the application to reveal them. Just in case people dont know, traffic tickets are also called citations.
 
expired car inspection ticket

Is expired car inspection ticket (over 60days) going to be an issue? I paid the ticket without dismissing the case.
 
I'm going to apply for my citizenship in January. I have lived in US 21 years now. I have received 3 tickets during that 21 years. My last ticket was about 10 years ago. I have lived only in 2 states during this time (Arizona and Washingto). All my tickets were from Arizona. I contacted Arizona DMV and they only have record for past 5 years. I paid the $5 and got the record that says I have not received any tickets in past 5 years.

I don't even know when I got these tickets. I just remember that last one was about 10 years go. How am I expected to get this info? I contacted the police station for cities that I received these tickets, but they weren't much help. They said that I have to call Arizona DMV (who didn't have the record that old). So what do I list when it says when did you get these tickets? I don't even remember what year I got these tickets, much less the month or the day.

Of course I plan to tell them I got 3 tickets in my application, but how should I list the dates? I also have no info on dates for these. I know last one was about 10 years ago, the one before that was 15 years ago and the one before that was 16 years ago. Is guessing good enough?
 
question

I have 3 speeding tickets which i did not metion on my app but will do it at the interview....the first two was long time ago and when I called the DMVs in the states where I got the spedding tickets they were not able to find a record for them. I know that i paid the tickets but as I said the forst two are far back and no records exit for them..the DMVs refused to give me any records or send me any letters becuse they do not have me ion their systems and I do not have copies of the checks or anyother proofs ...not sure what to do? any suggestions?
 
Reply

My friend just got the interview at San Antonio five month back. He had three tickets in the past three years. He even didn't know he "need" to put the traffic tickets in the N-400 and tell the interview officer. He passed the interview and got natualized without disclosing this. My guess is that the INS intention on N-400 form is not really looking at the minor traffic vioaltion.

Question to those who passed the interview, did the interview officer actually ask you about traffic vioaltion (other than you disclosed by you own)when you checked the "NO" in N-400 part 10 box 16?
 
Jerryl said:
My friend just got the interview at San Antonio five month back. He had three tickets in the past three years. He even didn't know he "need" to put the traffic tickets in the N-400 and tell the interview officer. He passed the interview and got natualized without disclosing this. My guess is that the INS intention on N-400 form is not really looking at the minor traffic vioaltion.

Question to those who passed the interview, did the interview officer actually ask you about traffic vioaltion (other than you disclosed by you own)when you checked the "NO" in N-400 part 10 box 16?

There has been much discussion about this topic on various threads in this forum. You can dig around and get more information. The bottom line is, you are supposed to disclose traffic violations. A moving traffic violation is a "Citation", and you are supposed to disclose all citations. During my own interview, the adjudicating officer said that typical traffic violations (speeding tickets etc.) have no bearing on the application. Other traffic offenses such as DWI/DUI, reckless driving etc., may be scrutinized more.
 
zzerous said:
I have 3 speeding tickets which i did not metion on my app but will do it at the interview....the first two was long time ago and when I called the DMVs in the states where I got the spedding tickets they were not able to find a record for them. I know that i paid the tickets but as I said the forst two are far back and no records exit for them..the DMVs refused to give me any records or send me any letters becuse they do not have me ion their systems and I do not have copies of the checks or anyother proofs ...not sure what to do? any suggestions?

Just mention the tickets at the interview and provide whatever information you have put together (e.g., approx dates, types of offense, and dispostion of the tickets) to the best of your recollection and I am sure it will be fine.

Good luck!
 
I agree

We should report the traffic violation only if they are considered as "misdemeanor"

Question : if you want to report the minor traffic violation such as speeding ticket and paid the fine, so you have to check the box 16 in part 10. You have to check box 15 and box 17 as well, since they are offensive violation of traffic law. If the above is true, then you case is likely to be scrutinized by INS.
 
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