TN marrying USC - best approach

Pinturicchio said:
But if the status of pending AOS doesn't kill the TN status, why can't you leave the US and then return using it, like the H1 for example?
Because a TN does not allow for dual intent.

A person in H1B status can enter the US with a pending I-485, and still keep thier H1B status, because H1b allows for dual intent.

A TN does not allow for dual intent, so when a a person in TN status with a pending I-485 enters the US and uses thier AP, they will lose thier TN status.

Pinturicchio said:
And why did they tear off the TN visa when you entered using the AP?

Because by using his AP, his status was no longer "TN" it was now AOS Pending, so they had to give him new I-94.
 
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Think of it like trying to use your tourist visa to enter when you have an AOS pending. It cries out dual-intent. Only a few visa categories allow for dual-intent.
 
curiousGeorge said:
Because a TN does not allow for dual intent.

That was my point. I just wanted to get clarification, I mean if the TN does not allow dual intent, then how come after applying for AOS, it is still valid for work purposes?

Doesn't that negate the non-immigrant nature of the visa?

Just curious :)
 
Jesse_t said:
So let's say hypothetically someone were to visit Canada while on a TN Status and after having filed for AOS. Now let's say that person were cross the border back into the US with his/her TN Status (no EAD), and was inspected by a US customs officer, then would that person be permitted to keep on working while holding the TN?

The reason I'm asking is on all my prior trips to Canada while holding my TN, not once was I asked if I had applied for a Green Card upon return to the US. Obviously most folks will not volunteer such information unless asked.


Jesse, that's a big Boo-Boo. I know the officers hardly check your status on the system, especially if you are driving across the border. But, they do enter you in the system. Techinically, if your leave the country without AP after having applied for AOS, the case is considered abandoned. I would suggest getting an AP as soon as possible and getting a new I-94 at border. By luck, the interviewer will not notice. But, if you don't change your status and go for AOS interview, there are pretty good chances you will be denied. One of questions asked during the interview is where and when was the last time you crossed the border.
 
sometime2006 said:
Think of it like trying to use your tourist visa to enter when you have an AOS pending. It cries out dual-intent. Only a few visa categories allow for dual-intent.


Exactly, so if someone was on a tourist visa and applied for AOS then his status instantly becomes "pending AOS", and I would assume that the same thing applies to TN visa holders. The minute they apply for AOS, they would be in "pending AOS", which does not allow employment except with the EAD....
 
Pinturicchio said:
That was my point. I just wanted to get clarification, I mean if the TN does not allow dual intent, then how come after applying for AOS, it is still valid for work purposes?

Doesn't that negate the non-immigrant nature of the visa?

Just curious :)


That's true. But, what triggers the TN to negate? Just applying for AOS does not cause TN to negate. It happens when someone crosses the border.
 
detroitkam said:
Jesse, that's a big Boo-Boo. I know the officers hardly check your status on the system, especially if you are driving across the border. But, they do enter you in the system. Techinically, if your leave the country without AP after having applied for AOS, the case is considered abandoned. I would suggest getting an AP as soon as possible and getting a new I-94 at border. By luck, the interviewer will not notice. But, if you don't change your status and go for AOS interview, there are pretty good chances you will be denied. One of questions asked during the interview is where and when was the last time you crossed the border.

This is surely an important note, detroitkam, for those folks who are adjusting status while still holding a TN. They would definitely have problems at the interview if the officer got picky and starts asking about out of country travel while the AOS was in process. The AP is definitely a must. Unfortunately some folks holding a TN and having filed for AOS are not aware of this rule as many (like myself) handle the paperwork themselves, no lawyer.

As I noted above, before receiving my green card, particularly before I filed for AOS, I travelled back-and-forth extensively between the US and Canada for numerous years while holding various TNs. As I was never asked about any pending green card application, I suspect others who have filed for AOS while holding a TN may cross back and forth without knowing the consequences. They would undoubtedly be in for a rude awakening at the interview.
 
Pinturicchio said:
That was my point. I just wanted to get clarification, I mean if the TN does not allow dual intent, then how come after applying for AOS, it is still valid for work purposes?

Doesn't that negate the non-immigrant nature of the visa?

Just curious :)

You need to understand the definition of what non-immigrant intent really means. It means that at the time when you are applying for a TN visa, you do not have immigrant intent. It does not mean your intent cannot change at a later date. It does not mean you cannot apply for I-485 while on a TN. This is a very common misconception of the law. Intent can only be measured at the time the application is made. Things change, and so can intent. There have been lawsuits that have proven what intent really means. Many good lawyers who are non-NAFTA experienced will not touch a TN to GC case because of this misunderstanding.

When you get the TN status, one's intent can change, but no future TN would be allowable, since imigrant intent has been shown when an I-485 is filed. Therefor if you apply for TN status, you would remain in that status until you re-renter the US with a pending I-485, since unlike a dual intent visa like H1b the officer at the POE does not need to see an Advance Parole to keep the I-485 active, since an H1b allows for dual intent. Since a TN only allows for single intent, the person would need to provide an Advance Parole and would be admitted in AOS pending status. No concerns will be given about the previous TN status the person was in.

There is nothing mentioned in the laws about an I-485 causing a TN to be nullified simply by applying for an I-485. The I-485 does not overide the current status simply by filing the application, the same holds true for B2 status. Therefor if the person never re-enters the US (and remains in the US) the TN would be valid until it expires. Since the person cannot reapply for a new TN, the person would therefor be automatically be granted the status of AOS pending by default, simply because there is no other status available, and there is a pending I-485.

I went through this successfully in the employment based track. I even got randomly called for an interview at the local district office, (which is uncommon for employment based applicants) and I was approved without question about my TN status, in front of an immigration officer. Since I never left the country, I still had my original I-94 in my passport, with the expired TN status. He saw my old I-94 with the TN status printed right on it, and it caused no issues, even though I continued to work using that status between the time that I applied for my I-485 and the time that my TN expired, at which point I used my EAD for work, and I would have used my AP for travel.

Quotes relative to the issue of immigrant intent:

"The fact that an alien is the beneficiary of an approved I-140 petition may not be, in and of itself, a reason to deny an application for admission, readmission, or extension of stay [under TN status] if the alien’s intent is to remain in the United States temporarily. Nevertheless, because the Service must evaluate each application on a case-by-case basis with regard to the alien’s intent, this factor may be taken into consideration along with other relevant factors every time that a TN nonimmigrant applies for admission, readmission or a new extension of stay. Therefore, while it is our opinion that a TN nonimmigrant may apply for readmission in the TN classification, if the inspecting officer determines that the individual has abandoned his or her temporary intent, that individual’s application for admission as a TN nonimmigrant may be refused."
Letter from Yvonne M. LaFleur, Chief, INS Business & Trade Services Branch
(posted on AILA InfoNet as “I-140 Filing Not Dispositive for TN” (June 18, 1996)).

"After considerable discussion between the Nebraska Service Center and AILA's NSC Liaison Committee, the NSC now indicates that the filing of an immigrant petition is simply one factor to consider in the adjudication of a TN extension, and should not automatically result in a denial. The NSC, which has exclusive jurisdiction over TN applications made on Form I-129, had previously indicated that NSC adjudicators were being told to deny TN applications if an I-140 immigrant petition has been filed on the individual's behalf. The basis of the denial had been that the individual no longer has a nonimmigrant intent."
AILA InfoNet, “NSC Backs Off I-140/TN Policy Change” (posted on AILA InfoNet at Doc. No. 02111431 (Nov. 14, 2002).

As one court put it, “there is a great difference between wanting to stay and intending to stay and proof of a desire to stay is not proof of an intent to stay.”
Choy v. Barber, 279 F.2d 642, 645-46 (9th Cir. 1960)

"a desire to immigrate to the United States, should opportunity arise, is not inconsistent with nonimmigrant intent"
citing Brownell v. Carija, 254 F.2d 78, 80 (D.C. Cir. 1957)
 
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Pinturicchio said:
The minute they apply for AOS, they would be in "pending AOS", which does not allow employment except with the EAD....

This statement is correct in the case of B1/B2 status where the person cannot work in B1/B2 status anyway. The reason they cannot work when they apply for AOS until they get an EAD is because they are still B1/B2 status until one of the following situations occurs:

1) The B1/B2 expires.
2) The person uses thier EAD for work.
3) The person enters the US using an Advance Parole.
4) The I-485 gets adjudicated.

Only these situations would void the B1/B2 status.

In the case of TN status, the person CAN work, and therefor when they apply for AOS they can continue to work, since they are in TN status until one of the following situations occurs.

1) The TN expires.
2) The person uses thier EAD for work.
3) The person enters the US using an Advance Parole.
4) The I-485 gets adjudicated.

The simple fact that the AOS was FILED does NOT void any current statuses, non-immigrant or otherwise.
 
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