The US is no more heaven for best and brightest talents

[khodalmd]

If you come across any interesting story about talent is draining out of USA due to GC backlog frustration, please post here.

I came across one story posted at http://blog.washingtonpost.com/posttech/2007/03/gates_us_shutting_out_generati.html

I came to USA, with 2 years of work experinece after my Bachelor's degree on H1B visa, After working couple of years here, got employed by a Fortune 20 company and started my green card in EB3, as I'll NOT be able to file under EB1/EB2 as I'd less than 5 yrs work experince with Bachelors degree at that time. Now, I am stuck in this greencard mess, due to retrogression. Without a green card and due the complex green card process, my employer is not able to promote me to the lead postion, Also not able to refile under EB1/EB2 category cause, USCIS does not count the experience gained with the GC filing employer, After spending 8 years, I think not wise to wait anymore, and If I do not get my greencard by this year end, I've decided to move back to India, this after I got 6 patents approved. I already talked to my manager, as my employer already have operations in India, my US Employer is now willing to promote me to higher managment position and is willing to assist to setup up a center in India for our group, and work is in progress. I already made couple of visit flying Business Class. Reason, we are not getting qualified prople here in USA and are not able to get people from other countries due to poor immigration system. Now, I'm not only going back to India after being in USA for 8 years, I'm taking 80+ jobs with me and guess what with a fat wallet too... and the offer is too good. Read in previous posts, some one posted "USA is no more heaven for best and brightest people", is now a REAL BITTER TRUTH these days. Also as a bonus, I already got my Australina PR in less than 18 months (Entire Process), Thanks for the US Dollars that helped me apply for this and easy & good Australian Immigration System.

 

[BornFree]

Bill Gates Recording

Bill Gates Recording

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks
Take a look at this website

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/e...g/default.mspx

I am very happy and satisfied that the World's richest man understands our
concersn more than even our attorneys....

My belief is eveybody one day will get his/her Green Card. But will it bear any use is the concern. Expectations in life is like Coke in a bottle and the fizz is the Timing. We can always drink the open can coke after a day or two. But will you like it is the question? Same way What I preceive today... me being in early 30s will all stamina/brainpower and vigor to start my own company or other avenues to be independent may be difficult or lost desires when I get Freedom Card in Early 40s. This battle has been going inside me for a while. Bill gates testimony provided soo many answers to the burning questions


I encourage everyone of you to watch his testimony. It is suprising to see that he sounded very frustrated and kinda angry at times with the immigration system.

Imagine this, If the world's richest man and the President of the World Biggest Economy are supporting and lobbying for the Freedom Card backlog issue and unfortunately or fortunately CIR fails to address these concerns , then who else can lobby for us?

So the biggest answer for our future lies in the CIR addressing GC backlog issues. If either CIR doesnt address legals or the CIR includes all legal immigrations issues but fails to become law, I think we (who likes to drink coke with fizz) are wasting time over here...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[khodalmd]

Bill Gates did wonderful job for us. There is no doubt about it.

For most of US citizens, simply immigration means illegal immigration!
For the people who understand the skilled legal immigration (including lawmakers), skilled legal immigration means H1B. I believe, 99.99 persons people don't understand (or don't know) the Employment based green card and its issue. Bill Gates created tremendous awareness about importance of skilled immigrants and the issues of skilled legal immigrants are facing for Green card.

I always had hard time to pursue people about my pending I 485 status (it was so funny when one guy understand it as refugee status)

Any way thanks to Bill Gates. It is right time, iron is on 1000F and need big and final blow from every one to mold it in our dream shape. Write to media and lawmakers as much as you can and call your lawmakers.

Bill Gates Recording

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks
Take a look at this website

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/e...g/default.mspx

I am very happy and satisfied that the World's richest man understands our
concersn more than even our attorneys....

My belief is eveybody one day will get his/her Green Card. But will it bear any use is the concern. Expectations in life is like Coke in a bottle and the fizz is the Timing. We can always drink the open can coke after a day or two. But will you like it is the question? Same way What I preceive today... me being in early 30s will all stamina/brainpower and vigor to start my own company or other avenues to be independent may be difficult or lost desires when I get Freedom Card in Early 40s. This battle has been going inside me for a while. Bill gates testimony provided soo many answers to the burning questions


I encourage everyone of you to watch his testimony. It is suprising to see that he sounded very frustrated and kinda angry at times with the immigration system.

Imagine this, If the world's richest man and the President of the World Biggest Economy are supporting and lobbying for the Freedom Card backlog issue and unfortunately or fortunately CIR fails to address these concerns , then who else can lobby for us?

So the biggest answer for our future lies in the CIR addressing GC backlog issues. If either CIR doesnt address legals or the CIR includes all legal immigrations issues but fails to become law, I think we (who likes to drink coke with fizz) are wasting time over here...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[khodalmd]

I just spoke to the office of Sen Ted Kennedy. The front desk operator told me that CIR will be introduced some time in next week and transfered me to a lady handling immigration issue. She told me that there is no specific date about when CIR going to be introduced? She politely refuse to give any information regarding the provisions of skilled immigrants in CIR.

They are not coming to common ground for 12 millions illegal (path to citizenship) and holding our lives!!

 

[nyc8300]

KhodalMD!,
We know you are excited.... No point on following CIR. IV and legal immigrants must create some action now to get the SKIL Bill introduced. If IV can give that extra push it will help their cause and everybody else's. All they need to do is go to Ted Kennedy or whoever it is and present the urgency on SKIL. So let's pursue that course.....

I just spoke to the office of Sen Ted Kennedy. The front desk operator told me that CIR will be introduced some time in next week and transfered me to a lady handling immigration issue. She told me that there is no specific date about when CIR going to be introduced? She politely refuse to give any information regarding the provisions of skilled immigrants in CIR.

They are not coming to common ground for 12 millions illegal (path to citizenship) and holding our lives!!

 

[qplearn]

I just spoke to the office of Sen Ted Kennedy. The front desk operator told me that CIR will be introduced some time in next week and transfered me to a lady handling immigration issue. She told me that there is no specific date about when CIR going to be introduced? She politely refuse to give any information regarding the provisions of skilled immigrants in CIR.

They are not coming to common ground for 12 millions illegal (path to citizenship) and holding our lives!!

thx for the update khodalmd! shusterman had said it was supposed to come this week, but because they are still working on it, it might be delayed to last week of March. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Also, I tried to check if there is an email id for Bill Gates (to send him a thank you note) but did not find one.

 

[BornFree]

Spoke to Cornyn office (SKIL bill)

They said that it is included in the CIR and it will be coming to the flooor later part of next week or week after
I think we should till the end of this month, to even decide the next course of action... Coz AgJOBS, DREAM both have been introduced as standlone, why not SKIL bill? My thinking is it may be part of CIR, but lets hope

Thanks

 

[saras76]

SKIL bill ...

They said that it is included in the CIR and it will be coming to the flooor later part of next week or week after
I think we should till the end of this month, to even decide the next course of action... Coz AgJOBS, DREAM both have been introduced as standlone, why not SKIL bill? My thinking is it may be part of CIR, but lets hope

Thanks

All,

I would like nothing more than for a standalone bill for legals (SKIL bill etc) but I have a feeling that lawmakers who openly oppose illegal immigration actually dislike all types of immigration and are very skillfully promoting their anti-immigration agenda. This whole ploy of refusing to address any one portion of the immigration issue without clumping everything together (CIR) is a very smart way of ensuring that nothing gets done. It is purely tactical and has worked wonderfully for the anti-immigrant wing. Their gameplan is very simple ... openly oppose illegal immigration to get public support, club the illegal immigration issues with all other legal immigration issues in order to confuse the public and ultimately attain the desired goal of no immigration (legal or illegal). The current debate is headed the same way.

Sorry to be so pessimistic but we need to stop being naive and understand what we are up against.

regards,

saras

 

[CoolTiger]

EB Retrogressed legals are not an issue for anybody!

All,

I would like nothing more than for a standalone bill for legals (SKIL bill etc) but I have a feeling that lawmakers who openly oppose illegal immigration actually dislike all types of immigration and are very skillfully promoting their anti-immigration agenda. This whole ploy of refusing to address any one portion of the immigration issue without clumping everything together (CIR) is a very smart way of ensuring that nothing gets done. It is purely tactical and has worked wonderfully for the anti-immigrant wing. Their gameplan is very simple ... openly oppose illegal immigration to get public support, club the illegal immigration issues with all other legal immigration issues in order to confuse the public and ultimately attain the desired goal of no immigration (legal or illegal). The current debate is headed the same way.

Sorry to be so pessimistic but we need to stop being naive and understand what we are up against.

regards,

saras

Behind the illegals is a big vote bank.
The corporations are more concerned about H1B increase to be able to hire skilled labor.
A few retrogressed EB categories are not affecting anybody other than these unfortunate immigrants themselves. ...These people are in the system...they are paying taxes and are working....There are no stats to suggest people are leaving bcoz of retrogression causing pain to corporations. Where is the problem?

Like it or not the only we can be salvaged is by getting a piggy ride on something else(CIR or H1 increase)!
And that's the way its going to be in the near foreseeable future.

 

[saras76]

Exactly ..

Behind the illegals is a big vote bank.
The corporations are more concerned about H1B increase to be able to hire skilled labor.
A few retrogressed EB categories are not affecting anybody other than these unfortunate immigrants themselves. ...These people are in the system...they are paying taxes and are working....There are no stats to suggest people are leaving bcoz of retrogression causing pain to corporations. Where is the problem?

Like it or not the only we can be salvaged is by getting a piggy ride on something else(CIR or H1 increase)!
And that's the way its going to be in the near foreseeable future.

CoolTiger,

You have summed it up nicely. Severe retro of India EB2, EB3, China and Mexico is of no concern to anyone other than Indians, Chinese and Mexicans who happen to be stuck in this rut.

regards,

saras

 

[nyc8300]

Saras76,
Bill Gates himself comes in and delivers the speech for the high skilled candidates. Irrespective of what happens, you should be highly appreciative of what the speech has done for laying down the cause of all the highly skilled candidates. Now we don't have to bring a proof on how the EB candidates contribute to the economy etc etc....
What else would you need to change your attitude. I forgot, you need to get the actual GC in your hand to feel totally secure about your next 50 years on earth.
Why don't you discuss some ways of expediting the process rather than sulking about this. Try it for the next 2 months for a start. If it doesn't work you can get back to your negative self....

CoolTiger,

You have summed it up nicely. Severe retro of India EB2, EB3, China and Mexico is of no concern to anyone other than Indians, Chinese and Mexicans who happen to be stuck in this rut.

regards,

saras

 

[saras76]

Being naive ..

Saras76,
Bill Gates himself comes in and delivers the speech for the high skilled candidates. Irrespective of what happens, you should be highly appreciative of what the speech has done for laying down the cause of all the highly skilled candidates. Now we don't have to bring a proof on how the EB candidates contribute to the economy etc etc....
What else would you need to change your attitude. I forgot, you need to get the actual GC in your hand to feel totally secure about your next 50 years on earth.
Why don't you discuss some ways of expediting the process rather than sulking about this. Try it for the next 2 months for a start. If it doesn't work you can get back to your negative self....

nyc8300,

In a way its entertaining to see naive people like yourself getting over excited about a speech. Don't get me wrong, Bill Gates has done an immense service for us all but lets not go over board on the effect it might have on law makers. It certainly helps to have heavy weights like Bill Gates on our side but in the grand scheme of things it is still a very small portion of this whole immigration debate.

What you see as being negative, I see as being realistic. Why don't I discuss ways of expediting the process .. thats hilarious .. there is no way to expedite this process my friend. Supporting IV is one way to do so and I do my bit there. Other than that we have no control over this process. What we do have control over is our daily lives and our goals and aspirations .. for that I always say that we need to do things independently of this GC process. If we want to buy a house and can afford it then we should, if we can switch jobs we should, if we want to study further we should, if we dislike life here then we should make plans to move on, if we can switch from EB3 to EB2 and port PDs then we should do that. I have and am doing most of the above. That is as positive as one can be given the situation.

What I am against is trying to foolishly convince ourselves that something will magically happen in a short period of time. Something will happen eventually but our expectations and subsequent planning needs to be realistic, thats all ... that being said ... you can now go back to being your foolishly naive self

regards,

saras

 

[TheElusiveGC]

nyc8300,

In a way its entertaining to see naive people like yourself getting over excited about a speech. Don't get me wrong, Bill Gates has done an immense service for us all but lets not go over board on the effect it might have on law makers. It certainly helps to have heavy weights like Bill Gates on our side but in the grand scheme of things it is still a very small portion of this whole immigration debate.

What you see as being negative, I see as being realistic. Why don't I discuss ways of expediting the process .. thats hilarious .. there is no way to expedite this process my friend. Supporting IV is one way to do so and I do my bit there. Other than that we have no control over this process. What we do have control over is our daily lives and our goals and aspirations .. for that I always say that we need to do things independently of this GC process. If we want to buy a house and can afford it then we should, if we can switch jobs we should, if we want to study further we should, if we dislike life here then we should make plans to move on, if we can switch from EB3 to EB2 and port PDs then we should do that. I have and am doing most of the above. That is as positive as one can be given the situation.

What I am against is trying to foolishly convince ourselves that something will magically happen in a short period of time. Something will happen eventually but our expectations and subsequent planning needs to be realistic, thats all ... that being said ... you can now go back to being your foolishly naive self

regards,

saras

saras76,

Well said dude!. I've been following this forum for more than 2 yrs now and most of the time I just drop in just for the kicks. A dose of reality is viewed as pessimism by some. I remember last spring when they were working on CIR, some ppl were quite worked up and this portal could not be accessed for a few hrs due to heavy traffic. Well, its deja vu all over again after BillG's testimony

 

[Charlatan]

Saras...
I have been a long time observer in this forum. I fully agree with what you just said. Nobody is holding us back from doing what we want to do. If the US thinks they want us here more than we want them, then they will do what it takes to retain us here. If we think we should get someting better or seriously deserve some thingbetter from the country we have adopted and that country is not recognizing that and we still choose to stay here then we need them more than they need us here.

Just my humble feelings....

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

The first post in the thread is about an exceptional H1B who owned some patents. Average H1-B stuck in retrogression is an "application programmer" and there are thousands of such best and brightest available in India now a days. If every H1B owns a patent then US will make provisions to increase EB1 quota and ask every H1 to use that quota. The quoted article is not actually related to the average person waiting on India EB3/EB2. I agree with Charlatan in this aspect. But when you look at other coutries movement, it actually bothers to notice the inequality in the EB quota system. May be there will be a backlash agaist Indians in US if they increase the quota dramatically or make everyone eligible to change jobs freely, we will never know. We just have to wait for the acute job shortage like nursing profession, then the law makers will do something like schedule A. This depends on how well the outsourcing companies are able curtail the attrition rate in future. But it does not look like they are able to retain people that well.

As per Bill Gates, he just wants some more H1s to spinout more applications on the new platforms for some years. Must be feeing the heat from Google, Apple, Oracle..

 

[nyc8300]

indian_gc_ocean,
I am very shocked to see that you think Bill Gates is just looking for more H-1's to do some drudgery.
The guy has given off billions to social causes. How many dollars do you think will he save by getting some more H-1's.
Bill Gates is sincerely worried about the next google i.e.the next big thing. He is a great visionary who sees that even if he gets one great visionary and has to pay for 65K nuts like you to get him/her, it is still worth the price. The 65K nuts that will get H-1s will also be more productive than in another country.
I don't think H-1 candidates fully realize their potential unless they come here and benefit from the synergy.
Bill Gates is more worried that 4 guys will start an operation in a garage in India, China etc and discover the next big thing and he wants to avoid that.

The cup is either half filled or half empty! If you think it is half empty why bother about writing until you get your GC....

The first post in the thread is about an exceptional H1B who owned some patents. Average H1-B stuck in retrogression is an "application programmer" and there are thousands of such best and brightest available in India now a days. If every H1B owns a patent then US will make provisions to increase EB1 quota and ask every H1 to use that quota. The quoted article is not actually related to the average person waiting on India EB3/EB2. I agree with Charlatan in this aspect. But when you look at other coutries movement, it actually bothers to notice the inequality in the EB quota system. May be there will be a backlash agaist Indians in US if they increase the quota dramatically or make everyone eligible to change jobs freely, we will never know. We just have to wait for the acute job shortage like nursing profession, then the law makers will do something like schedule A. This depends on how well the outsourcing companies are able curtail the attrition rate in future. But it does not look like they are able to retain people that well.

As per Bill Gates, he just wants some more H1s to spinout more applications on the new platforms for some years. Must be feeing the heat from Google, Apple, Oracle..

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

indian_gc_ocean,
I am very shocked to see that you think Bill Gates is just looking for more H-1's to do some drudgery.
The guy has given off billions to social causes. How many dollars do you think will he save by getting some more H-1's.
Bill Gates is sincerely worried about the next google i.e.the next big thing. He is a great visionary who sees that even if he gets one great visionary and has to pay for 65K nuts like you to get him/her, it is still worth the price. The 65K nuts that will get H-1s will also be more productive than in another country.
I don't think H-1 candidates fully realize their potential unless they come here and benefit from the synergy.
Bill Gates is more worried that 4 guys will start an operation in a garage in India, China etc and discover the next big thing and he wants to avoid that.

The cup is either half filled or half empty! If you think it is half empty why bother about writing until you get your GC....

NYC8300,
Forget about Bill Gates, what do you think about not having immigration relief as per my earlier quote
"May be there will be a (social) backlash agaist Indians (working) in US if they increase the quota dramatically or make everyone eligible to change jobs freely, we will never know." In this sense passing a law that dramatically increases EAD/GC or anyother means may actually be counter productive. I know it bothers you to see anything against EB relief, but sometimes it helps to listen to a different view without going into panic mode. If you have a counter argument just do it.

 

[saras76]

Positive outlook ..

indian_gc_ocean,
I am very shocked to see that you think Bill Gates is just looking for more H-1's to do some drudgery.
The guy has given off billions to social causes. How many dollars do you think will he save by getting some more H-1's.
Bill Gates is sincerely worried about the next google i.e.the next big thing. He is a great visionary who sees that even if he gets one great visionary and has to pay for 65K nuts like you to get him/her, it is still worth the price. The 65K nuts that will get H-1s will also be more productive than in another country.
I don't think H-1 candidates fully realize their potential unless they come here and benefit from the synergy.
Bill Gates is more worried that 4 guys will start an operation in a garage in India, China etc and discover the next big thing and he wants to avoid that.

The cup is either half filled or half empty! If you think it is half empty why bother about writing until you get your GC....

nyc8300,

I really appreciate your positive attitude and think its important for all of us to be positive. Forget about this immigration process, being positive is important for a successful life (with or without a GC).

Coming back to this GC process, I used to be quite positive until about a year ago when this whole circus of CIR started. The CIR mess brought out the ugly truth about the politics of the immigration debate. It made me realize that the EB categories were not on anyones priority list and convinced me that the chances of a stand alone bill addressing just EB issues was going to be a long shot. I may be wrong on all of this but common sense tells me otherwise ...

As for the Bill Gates issue. It was refreshing to see someone atleast talk about the EB categories and the problems we face. We EB folks find ourselves drowned out in the noise made over illegals and H1Bs. The bitter truth is that law makers know that most EB folks are not going anywhere just yet and also know that there is a never ending supply of H1Bs to replace the few that do leave. This undermines our issues a whole lot.

regards,

saras

 

[nyc8300]

Anything you say is possible. However I cannot consider hypotheticals. I can only talk about facts. The fact is that Bill Gates has laid it out that the country needs specialized candidates and it is not the other way round. I remember UN would ask quesitons on the forum as to how we can prove that EB candidates are contributing to the economy etc etc. It was hard to answer those questions because any data on contribution was debatable.
We do not have to prove our contribution to the economy now. In a way, EB candidates just got baptized. It seems to me you guys do not think that is worth anything unless you get a GC.

Will a baptimism lead to a GC?; don't know but that doesn't change what has happened by Bill Gates speech. Also stop looking for GC like you are looking for WMD to prove something. It seems unless you guys get your GC you will discount anything else that happens.
Maybe you are thinking now more as a permanent resident i.e. too many candidates will lead to a job loss. Well, you asked for a change....

NYC8300,
Forget about Bill Gates, what do you think about not having immigration relief as per my earlier quote
"May be there will be a (social) backlash agaist Indians (working) in US if they increase the quota dramatically or make everyone eligible to change jobs freely, we will never know." In this sense passing a law that dramatically increases EAD/GC or anyother means may actually be counter productive. I know it bothers you to see anything against EB relief, but sometimes it helps to listen to a different view without going into panic mode. If you have a counter argument just do it.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

Anything you say is possible. However I cannot consider hypotheticals. I can only talk about facts. The fact is that Bill Gates has laid it out that the country needs specialized candidates and it is not the other way round. I remember UN would ask quesitons on the forum as to how we can prove that EB candidates are contributing to the economy etc etc. It was hard to answer those questions because any data on contribution was debatable.
We do not have to prove our contribution to the economy now. In a way, EB candidates just got baptized. It seems to me you guys do not think that is worth anything unless you get a GC.

Will a baptimism lead to a GC?; don't know but that doesn't change what has happened by Bill Gates speech. Also stop looking for GC like you are looking for WMD to prove something. It seems unless you guys get your GC you will discount anything else that happens.
Maybe you are thinking now more as a permanent resident i.e. too many candidates will lead to a job loss. Well, you asked for a change....

thats right, no one is baptimised here. We all know where we stand at the end of the day, if we ask Pepsi CEO personally, she will have her stories. I just said the article that started the thread is not the right kind to highlight problems that an average EB immigrant faces today. I have not made any derogatory remarks against H1Bs. I am happy if something good happens for everyone but with USCIS super human efficiency it will not be that easy as we think.

When they(comp. like MS) have H1B special quota for US adv. degree holders and when they can outsource jobs to their India development centers/Infosys/Satyam, I seriously think more H1Bs are not necessary; instead, if they really want to help, Bill Gates or who ever should concentrate on pending immigrants first as their lives are in jeopardy. I was thinking hard on the quota system and just came across the backlash thought, it could be a hypothesis but knowing our potential problems would help us better highlight our situation later. It is better for us to note down all these issues and be prepared to weigh our options in future. I am not trying force my idea on anyone.

As per Bill Gates, this link show some statistics about what kind of H1B are recruited by Microsoft.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/7/184312/5388
You can also verify the facts by going to DOL web site. Its well know fact that MS office (application software) will be facing serious competition from Google, XP/Vista facing some compitetion from MAC/Desktop Linux and the server market from resurgent Sun and Linux. To fix all these MS needs application developer H1Bs but only on a short term basis and this will not help anyone who is waiting.