Study abroad long term with green card - don't want to lose opportunity for citizenship?

M

melodisiak

New Member
I am leaving to study abroad to Canada very soon and I am a permanent US resident. As I'll be abroad for a while, will it be an issue to renew my green card once it expires? Also, I've been living in the states for almost 15 years; will being abroad for almost 6 years be an issue if I eventually decide to apply for US citizenship? What if I apply for citizenship before immediately leaving to study - will not being here in the US for a certain amount of time disqualify me for citizenship? Appreciate any responses, as I will be leaving for school soon. Thanks!
 
Best bet would be applying for citizenship right know, if you're eligible. As a citizen, you can be outside as long as you want.

If you're not eligible and you want to leave, you can work it out with re-entry permits (thats my case by the way).

From what I understand, re-entry permits are valid for 2 years, may not be extended and study trip is generally very good excuse for being outside the U.S. long time. However 6 years are extremely long and you can get only two re-entry permits each for 2 years. You might get the third one, but this one will be valid just for one year.

In total it's 2 + 2 + 1 = 5 years that you can spend outside the United States. But after such a long time you'll be very suspicious about abandoning your residence and your intend to return permanently.
 
Your post raises some questions. You have had a greencard for 15 years and you are going away to school. How old are you and what is the status of your parents?

Are you certain that you are not a USC?

If you arec not already a USC, get a re-entry permiy before you go away to be on the safe side. If you are not already a USC, long trips abroad will likely have a negative effect on naturalization eligibility.
 
Unless they process you fast enough to complete the citizenship oath by March, your extended study plan means you almost surely won't get citizenship for a very long time.

If citizenship is important to you, delay your study program. Or investigate whether you might have already automatically derived US citizenship based on one or both of your parents becoming citizens before you turned 18.
 
thanks!

Thanks for the posts, guys. This was helpful :)

My parents are both US citizens, but and one of them was naturalized before I was 18..but somehow they did not bother to apply for me to get mine. I'm 23 now.

I will go ahead and apply for citizenship, and get my re-entry permit before I leave. I'll fly back for the interview, and also make sure I fly back before the 6 month mark. Another source also told me that the citizenship process might take as fast as 6 months- I know it did for my mom.

I'm relieved - I want to leave asap, yet did not want to lose my chance to get my citizenship or compromise my green card status.

After my citizenship, I think I should not have an issue staying out of the country for any period of time, is that correct?

Thanks for the input again.
 
melodisiak said:
Thanks for the posts, guys. This was helpful :)

My parents are both US citizens, but and one of them was naturalized before I was 18..but somehow they did not bother to apply for me to get mine. I'm 23 now.

I will go ahead and apply for citizenship, and get my re-entry permit before I leave. I'll fly back for the interview, and also make sure I fly back before the 6 month mark. Another source also told me that the citizenship process might take as fast as 6 months- I know it did for my mom.

I'm relieved - I want to leave asap, yet did not want to lose my chance to get my citizenship or compromise my green card status.

After my citizenship, I think I should not have an issue staying out of the country for any period of time, is that correct?

Thanks for the input again.
Click to expand...

You appear to have automatically acquired USC upon the naturalization of a parent under INA section 320. Do you have a foreign birth certificate? Can you get your parent's original naturalization certificate to submit with a passport application? You need the cert for the FIRST parent that naturalized. With the proper evidence the Passport Agency will issue a passport. You appear to have the required evidence for that. (Technically, they shouldn't issue one yet but they bend that law all the time. It's only a problem to get a passport first (or instead of) a certificate of citizenship from USCIS in particularly difficult cases. Some people regret not obtaining their Certificate IF they have legal problems and end up in ICE custody or before an IJ facing deportation. If a person gets USC through a parent and does not file an N-600, then the immigration computer database will continue to ID them as an LPR and therefore subject to immigration holds and initiation of removal proceedings.)

Read about poor Ramon Duarte's case, currently on remand from the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. I predict that this one will end up in the Supreme Court before it is over with one way or the other. The 2nd Circuit Decision will not go unchallenged by DHS.

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisio...5b4172-7c83-434a-9436-5da897b669f6/21/hilite/

You only need a copy for the N-600 application with USCIS or they can get from the parent's file. You are a USC and as such you need to travel on a US Passport to most countries but may not require one for Canada UNLESS you are required to have a student visa. You need to check with the Canadian school for proper procedures for a USC to attend that school. You no longer qualify for a re-entry permit, do not waste your money on that.
 
melodisiak said:
My parents are both US citizens, but and one of them was naturalized before I was 18..but somehow they did not bother to apply for me to get mine. I'm 23 now.
Click to expand...

They don't have to apply for your citizenship. You would have automatically derived citizenship under the Child Citizenship Act, if the relevant conditions were satisfied. Now you only need to apply for proof of citizenship (a US passport and/or N-600), if you met the conditions.

Were you living in the US with a green card, and with your naturalized parent at any time between their naturalization and your 18th birthday?

Note that if you apply for citizenship with the usual N-400 process, you will probably get denied if the adjudicator notices that one parent became a citizen before you turned 18. They'll tell you to apply for a US passport or N-600 instead.
 
melodisiak said:
Thanks for the posts, guys. This was helpful :)

My parents are both US citizens, but and one of them was naturalized before I was 18..but somehow they did not bother to apply for me to get mine. I'm 23 now.

I will go ahead and apply for citizenship, and get my re-entry permit before I leave. I'll fly back for the interview, and also make sure I fly back before the 6 month mark. Another source also told me that the citizenship process might take as fast as 6 months- I know it did for my mom.

I'm relieved - I want to leave asap, yet did not want to lose my chance to get my citizenship or compromise my green card status.

After my citizenship, I think I should not have an issue staying out of the country for any period of time, is that correct?

Thanks for the input again.
Click to expand...

How come your not a US Citizen and both of your parents are US citizens before you became 18? My sister was petitioned by my dad who is a US citizen when she was 12,we asked the USCIS if she is considered a US citizen and they said yes and we got her a US passport, so checked on that too, instead of spending 680 dollars and a lot of time, why dont you just spend 400 something dollars for your passport, just a thought!


Hope that could help!
 
Pinoy2011 said:
How come your not a US Citizen and both of your parents are US citizens before you became 18?
Click to expand...

Melodisiak probably is a US citizen, but didn't realize until we pointed it out.

USCIS should make it a standard practice of the naturalization interview to give parents of under-18 children a one-page summary describing the Child Citizenship Act and advising them to explore applying for a US passport or N-600 for their children after the oath. Too many parents are unaware of it, which complicates their children's lives later on.
 
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melodisiak said:
I will go ahead and apply for citizenship, and get my re-entry permit before I leave.
Click to expand...

I am not sure you are watching this thread any more ... but all you need to do (if you are in a hurry) is to land up at passport agency with the required documentation proving your derivative citizenship and you can have a passport in a day or two. That takes care of your immediate needs in terms of travel and not losing citizenship. Passport is usually good enough to prove citizenship, but if you want you can apply for a certificate of citizenship when it is convenient for you.

If you can get a passport, you do not need a re-entry permit. Spend your time and money where it makes sense.
 
BigJoe5 said:
You appear to have automatically acquired USC upon the naturalization of a parent under INA section 320. Do you have a foreign birth certificate? Can you get your parent's original naturalization certificate to submit with a passport application? You need the cert for the FIRST parent that naturalized. With the proper evidence the Passport Agency will issue a passport. You appear to have the required evidence for that. (Technically, they shouldn't issue one yet but they bend that law all the time. It's only a problem to get a passport first (or instead of) a certificate of citizenship from USCIS in particularly difficult cases. Some people regret not obtaining their Certificate IF they have legal problems and end up in ICE custody or before an IJ facing deportation. If a person gets USC through a parent and does not file an N-600, then the immigration computer database will continue to ID them as an LPR and therefore subject to immigration holds and initiation of removal proceedings.)

Read about poor Ramon Duarte's case, currently on remand from the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. I predict that this one will end up in the Supreme Court before it is over with one way or the other. The 2nd Circuit Decision will not go unchallenged by DHS.

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisio...5b4172-7c83-434a-9436-5da897b669f6/21/hilite/

You only need a copy for the N-600 application with USCIS or they can get from the parent's file. You are a USC and as such you need to travel on a US Passport to most countries but may not require one for Canada UNLESS you are required to have a student visa. You need to check with the Canadian school for proper procedures for a USC to attend that school. You no longer qualify for a re-entry permit, do not waste your money on that.
Click to expand...

This is an update in order to add a link to the N-600 Denial from AAO http://www.uscis.gov/err/E2 - Appli...ecisions_Issued_in_2007/May212007_02E2309.pdf
 
I know the decision seems to be logical, but it sounds so weird. Missing out because of how the days are counted, or just on the margin. I know people would say that these cutoff issues happen everyday, but come on ... we are talking about whether the child was born at 9 AM or 9 PM as one part of the argument !! We see similar issues when applicants file 91 days before 5 years ... should not CIS have a calculator on their website or just hold the application for 1 day rather than denying it ... I know the law is the law but should it not include "customer service" as part of their work, especially since I am reading so much discussion about N400 processing being funded by application fees rather than government appropriations (thanks to shutdown articles). Yes you can not apply 5 years less 91 days, but would you please provide a clerk for another 50 USD who can scrutinize the application and tell you so before cashing the cheque? I guess 'nuff already.
 
In this case the common sense is ... even if I was born at 12:01 AM, I do not end up celebrating my birthday the previous night otherwise I might miss it. The whole day is my birthday. So CIS says if you are born at 12:01 or 9:01, it is all the same for us. But please cut some slack somewhere .. the law says kid below 18 years ... what is the intent of the law? i guess the law writers know how to write an operational manual without caring about real people and essentially cutting their benefits on their birthdays !!
 
sanjoseaug20 said:
In this case the common sense is ... even if I was born at 12:01 AM, I do not end up celebrating my birthday the previous night otherwise I might miss it. The whole day is my birthday. So CIS says if you are born at 12:01 or 9:01, it is all the same for us. But please cut some slack somewhere .. the law says kid below 18 years ... what is the intent of the law? i guess the law writers know how to write an operational manual without caring about real people and essentially cutting their benefits on their birthdays !!
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IF Duarte wins in the Supreme Court, it could be bad in many ways. IF a government official (or anyone in authority) had to check to the very minute of someone's birth across the board.

EXAMPLE: Teenager is thrilled to go to the DMV and apply for his or her driver's permit first thing on the 16th birthday. (S)he gets there and the clerks asks what time were you born 16 years ago. The applicant was born at 6pm. The clerk says "Sorry, but you can't apply until 6:01pm, but we will close at 4:45pm, today is Fri and Mon is a holiday so, come back next Tues." Thank you Ramon Duarte-Ceri, you just ruined this kid's day.

EXAMPLE: A young LPR has learned that he is a USC through his parent's naturalization, he has waited until his 16th birthday to apply for his passport so that he can get a 10 year passport (it is more economical and his parents are cheapskates). He shows up at the Passport Application Acceptance Office with dad around 10am (dad took the day off work and kept the son out of school that day as they had to drive quite a way to get there), mom had to go on a business trip that week. The clerk asks what time were you born...he says 9pm. The clerk says, sorry but you have to apply for a minor passport that is only good for 5 years BUT you can only do that IF mom has provided her written consent. They had not planned for either scenario and have to come back another day.... Thank you Ramon Duarte-Ceri.

EXAMPLE: A group of teens go to see a new movie. One in the group is turning 17 that day, but not until the movie is over (he can't get in because he is still under age 17--it ruins the experience for ALL of them). Thank you, Ramon Duarte-Ceri....

Sorry, but you can't board that plane as an unaccompanied minor... Thank you Ramon Duarte-Ceri....

Bartender says, sorry, you can't be served until after 11:45pm--I guess you will be the designated driver on this your 21st birthday. Thank you, Ramon Duarte-Ceri...
 
If they're going to consider the time of birth, they also would have account for time zones. You were born in Sydney, Australia? Sorry, you have to wait another 14 hours to turn 21!
 
Come on Jack, you are opening Pandora's box.
Example -- Yes, I know when daylight saving time starts, but that was not how it worked 10 years back !! From that point on, you still have 1 hour to go.

On a separate matter, when filing N400, does not CIS itself say do not worry about trips under 24 hours. So on one side they are saying that don't worry about small things here and there, but time of birth ... oh yes, we start our clock at 12:01 just like insurance companies do. Thankfully they have not gone into seconds yet.
 
sanjoseaug20 said:
On a separate matter, when filing N400, does not CIS itself say do not worry about trips under 24 hours. So on one side they are saying that don't worry about small things here and there, but time of birth ... oh yes, we start our clock at 12:01 just like insurance companies do. Thankfully they have not gone into seconds yet.
Click to expand...
But here USCIS also is not worrying about small things like hours and minutes. It's the applicant who was trying to say the hours are relevant and that he didn't turn 18 yet when his mother took the oath, because he was born at a later hour in the day.
 
sanjoseaug20 said:
On a separate matter, when filing N400, does not CIS itself say do not worry about trips under 24 hours. So on one side they are saying that don't worry about small things here and there, but time of birth ... oh yes, we start our clock at 12:01 just like insurance companies do. Thankfully they have not gone into seconds yet.
Click to expand...

sanjoseaug20,

You are on USCIS' side in this matter, just like the rest of us. It is the criminal that is trying to avoid being deported as a convicted drug dealer that is making the ridiculous case and the 2nd Circuit was being stupid about it in taking his side. I agree with the dissenting judge's opinion that the line that has been drawn and it is a good one that should not be changed. If this case ends up in the Supreme Court it could go either way but I am betting that the 2nd Circuit would be overturned.

We should start a petition to urge USCIS to fight it to the Supreme Court!
 
I am with the applicant actually.
I do not care whether he is a drug dealer or not. The contention has nothing to do with his other criminal activities.
What is the intent of the law? Give children right to become USC. How old must be the person to be called an adult ... I guess having free will and hence able to decide by him/herself - 18.
I guess that's the basic premise. Before 18, parents take care of you.
What I do not like is the part wherein a person, criminal or not, gets deprived of a right on their birthday. You can say a line has to be drawn somewhere. I agree with that. You could say how many people fall into this. Sure, not too many.
But could you not let the person who has this situation on his/her birthday get away with it please? So I am with the applicant.

Going into the verbiage of the case, when they talk about 12:01, it is the CIS talking, right?
I contend they should let the people born on that specific day ... please retain the right to be called 18 only after 11:59 PM.

Why do I take this side? Yes, law is law and has to be written to handle borderline scenarios where you do not know which way to lean. However, in case of doubt (not doubt in terms of reading the law) ... let's say in case of such borderline scenarios, please give the benefit to the ordinary citizens. Why do does it have to be so complex that their responsibility is to serve the citizens and they are being more citizen friendly by giving this extra 2, 5 or 10 hours to the citizens.

You can still cut off someone who is 18 years and 1 day ... and more or less meet your objective.
 
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