Strange Denial For N400

M

manish22

Registered Users (C)
Hi,
   My wife recently went for her N400 interview and the officer threatened
to deny her application if she didn\'t agree to withdraw it and she withdrew thinking denial will somehow be a worse than withdrawl .
   She had gone out of US for more than 1 yr and was eligible to apply for
N400 4yrs and 1 day after coming back to US according to "Guide to
Naturalization" . The INS guy agreed to it but said in this case she was
 not allowed to apply 90 days prior to her eligibility as is normal. The
guide says that if your\'re applying after 5 years of being permanent
resident (3 yr for married to citizen ), you can send you application 90
days before you become eligible . She showed it to him but he wouldn\'t listen . Now we\'ll have to refile and wait forever again .

What a Jerk .....
 
No Title

That\'s a clear discrimination act, forcing one to withdraw a case is illegal. As they could not show any prrof for not giving citizenship to your wife, they blackmailed her to withdraw. This is very commonly heard in different fields.

As JoeF suggested, you can try re-instating through a lawyer.
 
Join the club

When I filed my N-400 based on marriage to a US citizen last year, I followed the so called “Guide to Naturalization” (should be called “Guide to Evacuation”). It used to state on page 22 that you can apply 3 months ahead of time (NOT 90 days). Now they changed it to reflect 90 days, but they forgot to change the INS act # 334 to that clearly states it as 3 months. See for yourself on the INS’ own website:
 http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/lpBin/lpex...emplates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-act334
So on my interview day last month the officer said that I applied prematurely (more than 90 days) and wanted me to sign a withdrawal of my application. When I showed him the guide (were it used to say 3 months), he said that it’s still not acceptable (but no excuses were given). My lawyer then stepped in and asked for a proof that I violated. Then after a long talk and him going back and forth from his boss’s office, he decided to give me a chance, and he applied an Interim Procedure (refer to http://www.shusterman.com/natz699.html for more info about it). I did however sign a withdrawal form, but it was different from the one he presented to at the beginning of the interview. It had the word “new application will be under expedited processing”. He basically made a copy of my N400 and filled out a new one, dated it the same day as the interview date, and had me sign it. It has been a month so far and I am still waiting to hear from them. My lawyer went today to see if he can get me an update. They refused to give him updates two times so far, but we will see about today.

My application is now in the hands of the N-14 Review Officer as the IO issued me N-14 requesting proofs that I am still married to the same US citizen (probably hoping he will find an excuse to deny me) in order to continue processing the new N400.

I think you should have requested an explanation to why they denied you. But I understand how that probably went, and how nerves you probably were. Believe me, on my interview day I was out of it, especially when he told me that “we have a problem I am afraid”

I hope I’ll get my oath letter soon and just forget about everything called INS. It has been, and still is, a terrible experience.
 
Oath Ceremony Letter

Please keep us posted about your oath ceremony as that would help us estimate our wait for the oath. I\'am also in a similar situation waiting for the oath in New Orleans for almost 4 months since passing the citizenship exam.
 
Will do

4 months! That would piss me off. You need to go there and get a strait answer to why it\'s taking them so long. That does not sound right at all.
My local office is Detroit. They\'ve been known to send oath letters whithin a month or even less from the interview date. But like I said, I had a delimma going on on my interview day. We\'ll see what will happen.
 
Another Favor / The whole Timeline

Please post the whole timeline right from the receipt date till the citizenship exam day and beyond of your case. My timeline is date of receipt was 01/29/2001. FP-03/09/2001. exam 02/28/2002. submission of the divorce and the new documents- 03/14/2002 and waiting since for the oath ceremony now for about 110 days.
 
Timeline

Receipt date 7/15/01, FP 12/19/01, Interview 5/17/02. I was issued N-14 on the same day to provide evidences of the marital relationship (something they should have mentioned in the first place when they sent me the interview letter in 3/02). All the papers they asked for were prepared and sent to them out via "Extremely Urgent Express Mail" service. According to the return receipt they received it on 5/23/02.
 
continuity of resident interrupted: file no earlier than 4 years & 1 day!

to get back to the original posting: when the permanent resident interrupts the residence by staying outside the US for more than 12 months, and returns to the US. a strict reading of Title 8 CFR, Section 316.5(c)(1)(ii), naturalization eligibility, is very clear: the applicant for naturalization may file for naturalization 4 years and 1 day after return if using the 5 years\' residence, and may file for naturalization 2 years and 1 day if using the 3 years\' residence. (the reference can be found on INS website and on several attorney\'s websites.)

The "filing 90 days early" rule permits naturalization applicants to file at 4 years and 9 months (or 2 years 9 months) as long as the interview is after the 5 years\' (3 years\') residence. filing at 4 years and a day is still earlier than 4 years and 9 months......

Unfortunately, in this case the INS officer is technically correct.

In addition, withdrawing the application was the eaiser route, since you can file new N-400 immediately. Otherwise you would have to wait for completion of the denial paperwork. If there were no other problems, the process should be familiar and easier!
 
No Title

John,
   But Guide to Naturalization says that you can apply 90 days
early if you\'re applying on the basis of 5 yrs of permanent residence
(not continuous residence) . And I dont find any mention of the
rule that you bring up . Can you pls point me to where I can find it

Thanx a lot
manish
 
Another Question about dealing with the INS

I wonder If I enquire the INS TOO MANY times, like once every month about my oath of ceremony in New Orleans would it make INS mad and result in further delays in my oath of ceremony? Do you think I need a lawyer to do that at this stage. I\'am asking you as I read how you
battled with the INS about the 91 days and 3 months issue and WON with the INS.Even I tried to to the same though I dont have a lawyer fighting for/with me.Sometimes I feel that the delay in my oath is due to the many enquires that I made in the last 2-3 months. Any Comments will be appreciated.
 
No Problem How could they be mad! It\'e their fault.

As a matter of fact, I wish I can do like you and go there every week, even. Unfortunately I can\'t due to my job schedule. What do they usually tell you when you ask about your case? I don\'t think a lawyer will do you any good other than enquiring about your case on your behalf (something you can do yourself and for free). As a matter of fact, I called a different lawyer yesterday just to make sure that my lawyer is not screwing me up (like he did on my interview day, and by filling for me too early in the first place causing all this dilemma), the other lawyer said that I basically did everything I could, and that the only thing left is just to be patient and wait for them to finish processing. My lawyer\'s assistant said that she has seen cases with “more info needed” (like mine, I guess) take as long as 6 months! Well, I have nothing to say but that it’s a pity how the INS is sooooo screwed up inside out.
The other lawyer "expected" for it to be from 2-3 months until I get my oath letter, but that’s just a guess. It might be longer, it might shorter, no one really knows. My lawyer mentioned that he will be going down there next week. Let\'s wait and see.
In your case, I think that you need to go there and make sure that your case exists in that office to start with and that it’s just waiting to be processed. I know that this is not as easy as it sounds, but it’s vital that find out. INS has a history of losing files. This introduces the local congressman idea. If INS does not give you a satisfactory answer, you need to contact your local congressman and have him/her do an enquiry on your behalf. He/she will be happy to help especially if it’s an election year :)

Good luck and keep me posted.

PS: you can also email me at IMMIG2002@HOTMAIL.COM
 
Too Many == Too Good

How could they be mad about something that is their fault?

As a matter of fact, I wish I can do like you and go there every week, even. Unfortunately I can\'t due to my job schedule. What do they usually tell you when you ask about your case? I don\'t think a lawyer will do you any good other than enquiring about your case on your behalf (something you can do yourself and for free). As a matter of fact, I called a different lawyer yesterday just to make sure that my lawyer is not screwing me up (like he did on my interview day, and by filling for me too early in the first place causing all this dilemma), the other lawyer said that I basically did everything I could, and that the only thing left is just to be patient and wait for them to finish processing. My lawyer\'s assistant said that she has seen cases with “more info needed” (like mine, I guess) take as long as 6 months! Well, I have nothing to say but that it’s a pity how the INS is sooooo screwed up inside out.
The other lawyer "expected" for it to be from 2-3 months until I get my oath letter, but that’s just a guess. It might be longer, it might shorter, no one really knows. My lawyer mentioned that he will be going down there next week. Let\'s wait and see.
In your case, I think that you need to go there and make sure that your case exists in that office to start with and that it’s just waiting to be processed. I know that this is not as easy as it sounds, but it’s vital that find out. INS has a history of losing files. This introduces the local congressman idea. If INS does not give you a satisfactory answer, you need to contact your local congressman and have him/her do an enquiry on your behalf. He/she will be happy to help especially if it’s an election year :)

Good luck and keep me posted.

PS: you can also email me at IMMIG2002@HOTMAIL.COM
 
The Residency

Hi there, what you are forcusing on talking about is the 4 years and 1 day or the 4 years and 9 months continuous residence. Here I want you to share your opinion on the physical residence. I just want to know if it can fulfill the condidtion of 930 days prior to 5 years and 370 days to 3 years , then we can file our application for naturalization. Thanks a lot.
Mcdon.
 
No Title

Dear Manish22:

You mentioned in your original post that your wife was away from U.S. for more than 6 months. My wife is in a similar situation. The document checklist states that she needs to attach documentary evidence that she had maintained residency in U.S. What documents did your wife enclose with her application? That will be very helpful to us. Thanks.

Chaudiah
 
it is in Title 8 CFR Section 313.5

the reference is in basic immigration Law: Title 8 CFR Section 316.5(c)(1)(ii) Absence From the United States, For periods in Excess of 1 year, which states: "...An applicant described in this paragraph who must satisfy a five-year statutory residence period may file an application for naturalization four years and one day following the date of the applicant\'s return to the United States to resume permanent residence. An applicant described in this paragraph who must satisfy a three-year statutory residence period may file an application for naturalization two years and one day following the date of the applicant\'s return to the United States to resume permanent residence." INS takes this literally. The permission to submit 90 days prior to the 5 year or 3 year mark is also in Title 8 CFR Section 316, but is NOT included in this specific portion...
 
JoeF is correct!

the original question was why can someone NOT file 90 days prior to the date 4 years and 1 day after re-entry from an extended (12+ month) oveseas trip. anyone may file no more than 90 days prior to the completion of their 5 years continuous residence (or their 3 year continuous residence). However after a 1+ year break in continuity of residence the applicant must wait 4 years and 1 day BEFORE FILING for naturalization.

back to the original question, there is no room for complaint in the interviewing officer\'s technical decision. If he was rude, abusive or vulgar, you may have grounds for a complaint, however that will not change the decision on the application.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
us citizenship

Hello.I had my interview on aug 13 2012 in chicago.The interview went smoothly and I passed the us civic test.I am married and i had gone to my country for 10 months to get married and settle evrything.The officer askedme for re entry permit I said i dont have any as i did not go for year and above i had gone for marraige so that I can apply for my husband on the basis of green card or citizenship.She said ok she did not ask much,She asked do you want to change ur name I said as i want to have my husband last name .She asked if i had practised my new signatures before coming here i said yes .She said go ahead and sign ur photos for me wid ur new signature and also she made me sign some documents which i did not get time tor read as everything went fast but i signed the documents wid my new name as well .Atthe end she checked two boxes that i have passed the test and desicion cannot be made.


My quetion is --- is my application tentavily approved because i signed my photos wid my new name
can anybody tell me those documents which i signed what are they ab as i signed wid my new name
i gave her all my tax transcripts as i alwys paid taxes for the last 5 yrs

i was very curious so i called uscis and the lady told me ur case is neither aprovednor denied neither any documnts are required bt some background check is going on.....

can anybody plll tell me why did she made me sign my photos and the documents wid my new name????? andwhat were those documents about????? should i be hope ful???
 
ncontR entail

swatis1212 said:
Hello.I had my interview on aug 13 2012 in chicago.The interview went smoothly and I passed the us civic test.I am married and i had gone to my country for 10 months to get married and settle evrything.The officer askedme for re entry permit I said i dont have any as i did not go for year and above i had gone for marraige so that I can apply for my husband on the basis of green card or citizenship.She said ok she did not ask much,She asked do you want to change ur name I said as i want to have my husband last name .She asked if i had practised my new signatures before coming here i said yes .She said go ahead and sign ur photos for me wid ur new signature and also she made me sign some documents which i did not get time tor read as everything went fast but i signed the documents wid my new name as well .Atthe end she checked two boxes that i have passed the test and desicion cannot be made.


My quetion is --- is my application tentavily approved because i signed my photos wid my new name
can anybody tell me those documents which i signed what are they ab as i signed wid my new name
i gave her all my tax transcripts as i alwys paid taxes for the last 5 yrs

i was very curious so i called uscis and the lady told me ur case is neither aprovednor denied neither any documnts are required bt some background check is going on.....

can anybody plll tell me why did she made me sign my photos and the documents wid my new name????? andwhat were those documents about????? should i be hope ful???
Click to expand...

Everyone is asked to sign their N400 at the interview. Nothing strange. Your portion is over. Now the IO will get the application approved by his superior and you would be in queue for oath. If you have registered for email updating , you will get email. Or you can check on line case status. Hope you got N652 after interview. What does it say??
 
yes i got n 652 it says u have passed the us civic test and secondly the desicion cannot bemade.i had havinggreen card since 2005 and physical presenceof 38 months and also ihave all tax filed for the last five yrs.i stayed in india for 10 months dueto delay in my marraige so she asked me if i stayed for two yrs i said no i came back before yr she said she needs time to review just waitingg for my oath
 
swatis1212 said:
yes i got n 652 it says u have passed the us civic test and secondly the desicion cannot bemade.i had havinggreen card since 2005 and physical presenceof 38 months and also ihave all tax filed for the last five yrs.i stayed in india for 10 months dueto delay in my marraige so she asked me if i stayed for two yrs i said no i came back before yr she said she needs time to review just waitingg for my oath
Click to expand...

So the immigration officer in Chicago thought that you stayed out of the us for 2 yrs instead of 10 months? didn't you show her the passport stamps that show that you were out for 10 months?

moreover during those 10 months, did you have an apartment leased in us?
 
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