Sona Shah - An American Citizen - fights against H-1B

Santa4u, unfortunately that is not as straightforward as you would like. Don't even go there. If you think that you are going to use that analogy and have the gates of millions in India and China educated very cheap when compared to the first world, you are dead wrong. You would open the gates of India just because competition is a good thing, then you would see a programmer making $10/hour here in America. Put yourself in the American programmer shoe, would you accept that ? Protectionism against workers exist and should be enforced everywhere. In my country the government protects citizens there three times more than in America - obviously because the unemployment ratio is higher there. It is like that everywhere. One needs to research more if you one believes that is irrational.


They key is that you need to keep a balance and bring H1B's yes, but there are limits to this. It appears from the article that the employer abused the system, and the lady is correct.

santa4u said:
Heck this is America...Free Trade rocks...

look at Ford...it's conceding market share to Toyota (an immigrant company)...

thanks to Ford's strategic market segment (trucks/SUVs) being so sensitive to oil gas prices!

I agree that Toyota itself is an america company now with lot of jobs being created due to its growth - right here in US...

But the fact remains, this is an open economy! 10 years ago - US car makers tried to ban japanese carmakers...but heck, they couldn't!
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asnssf said:
I was wrong, when I said she might target GC next. She won't.

You know why.
Click to expand...

If she targets GC, she's targeting her bf/husband and her family who came to this country in the past.

OK, forget the fact that the bf/husband is whitey... she's born a foreigner, marrying a foreigner, against other foreigners coming here.
HYPOCRISY!
 
Some articles say she was born in Houston to Gujurati parents, others say she came to the US as an infant :confused: Nonetheless, she's no different from any other citizen of other countries who feel threatened by foreigners.Bottom-line, she's American . I am from a country where the smartass government is giving amnesty to all the overstays of the neighbouring countries and my relatives there are against it despite most of their own living in other countries. :D I just don't think Sona Shah should be demonized or be the poster child of anti-immigration employment
 
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Ask Her Talk To People Who Introduced WTO

Free trade any where in the world. Any body can sell any thing any where. Any body can buy from any where. That's simple concept WTO introduced America. Which is really good according to one MBA friend (from Columbia University). Every body can't make every thing as greatest product. Some people in good making MBA's (US) some university are making Good IT professionals.

She crying now because she lost job. What if she born in India and came here to US for job. Does she feels bad what about what she is doing??


In Us Companies care about Profits. Government care about Taxes. Every body has their own Agenda. So nothing will happened to H1s.
 
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Dude There are too many Sona Shas in US right now.

envision said:
Some articles say she was born in Houston to Gujurati parents, others say she came to the US as an infant :confused: Nonetheless, she's no different from any other citizen of other countries who feel threatened by foreigners.Bottom-line, she's American . I am from a country where the smartass government is giving amnesty to all the overstays of the neighbouring countries and my relatives there are against it despite most of their own living in other countries. :D I just don't think Sona Shah should be demonized or be the poster child of anti-immigration employment
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What we are seeing in google is different people. She came here when she is 3. She can't lie infront of Congress.
 
I dont mind supporting Her

Hello Guys,
The Truth of the Fact is "She is Partly RIGHT". There are some companies that take advantage of non-immigrants and earlier stages of immigrants.

Actually I dont mind to Support her. Atleast when she gets all those $$$$. - i can take my share :).

Cheers.
Peace- Out! :p
 
Business rules here

What are you discussing here ?

Do you really think that individual or even several thousand of individuals can interfere in H1 process and american economy and business ?

If you come to your american (real american) neighbours and ask them what they think about H1 foreign people coming here and making big $$$.

99.99% of them will tell you exactly where you and I should be.
If your neighbours would be at the power to make a decision you and I would be in our original countries yesterday.

The reason why it did not happen yet, because H1 process and EB immigration is regulated by business. The big corporations such as Microsoft, Intel, IBM, 200 of Universities support H1 program and EB immigration.

Business rules in US but not Sona Shah or even thousnad of Sona Shah
 
It may change

The problem is that if this is still America and a democratic country, you can't take for granted that that trend will continue, where employers are solely making the call on H1B. It is a fact that the population in the last one year have mobilized themselves against immigation in general. In good part that was caused by the illegal alien movement. That irated lots of citizens and geared they lack of sympath torwards any type of immigration, even legal. Moreover, if it is true that IEEE reports that engineers experienced a salary decrease in the last few years, then citizens have more ammo to make a point against us and H1B's.

sfmars said:
What are you discussing here ?

Do you really think that individual or even several thousand of individuals can interfere in H1 process and american economy and business ?

If you come to your american (real american) neighbours and ask them what they think about H1 foreign people coming here and making big $$$.

99.99% of them will tell you exactly where you and I should be.
If your neighbours would be at the power to make a decision you and I would be in our original countries yesterday.

The reason why it did not happen yet, because H1 process and EB immigration is regulated by business. The big corporations such as Microsoft, Intel, IBM, 200 of Universities support H1 program and EB immigration.

Business rules in US but not Sona Shah or even thousnad of Sona Shah
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She couldn't be more reasonable. That's the same I keep saying;
From my own experience and from the feedback of managers in multiple IT organizations, there are a certain group of individuals brought on H1B that work on weekends, Sunday nights, etc without being asked to do so, and that is great. By the way, I was one of the them ;-)
However, like it or not they put longer hours at work for the SAME wages. Well, if you ever come up with a way to limit the amount of work hours given a certain wage, I think
1) Demand for H1B in the US will decrease
2) Offshoring will increase because employers will look for those "hard-workers" abroad.

Just my crazy opinion.


unitednations said:
I received following e-mail from Sona,


Hi,

I'm Sona Shah, the Indian-American who has nothing against the H1B visa itself, only against corporations who abuse the program resulting in exploitation of foreign workers and American residents including green card holders and citizens.

I've been trying to post to the forum to clear up some of the confusion but the webmaster is not letting me in.

I was hoping that you might post a reply for me:

I have nothing against the H1 visa, or any other visa.
My friend atWilco, Kai Barrett was an H1 visa employee. I have nothing against green card holders or immigration in general. I'm an immigrant myself. All I'm seeking is the reform of corporate abuse of these programs. Please tell the readers of the post that I am not anti-visa or anti-immigration.

One thing that I'd like to emphasize in my experience on this issue is that people become very divisive and take sides. Americans often point fingers and say that guest workers/immigrants come here to take jobs.
For their part the guest workers/immigrants say Americans don't deserve their jobs or livlihoods.

What Kai and I learned, is that our civil rights are connected. It makes no sense for American residents and guest workers to be on opposite sides of the fence. Guys - we're all workers. As you can see from what happened at my company, abusing one group only opens the doors to abusing the other. If companies could not underpay the foreign workers, they wouldn't discriminate against Americans.

My hope is that people, whether it be the guest worker or the American resident worker (green card/citizen), that they respect that we're all workers and that our rights are connected. My hope is that we all stand up against discrimination and abuse.

And finally, that I recognize that not all companies abuse visa programs like the H1B. But that there are enough abusers, and enough holes in the system, that it is ripe for abuse. This is all I'm seeking to reform. I hope for a day that guest workers on any visa have the full rights and privileges for working in America that citizens have and that citizens are not displaced.

While often ignored and downplayed, I say to any reader of such posts who are guest workers here seeking permanent residency: remember that unless you too fight against this abuse, that you are fighting for the right to become me, disenfranchised and unemployed. If you're a guest worker seeking to live in America on a long-term basis, its as important for you to fight for what I'm fighting for. Otherwise, you'll swim to this shore to find it devoid of the dream you came seeking.

Let's all stand up for human, civil and employment rights.

Sincerely,

Sona Shah
Click to expand...
 
Well said!

Very well said. Corporations have a clear goal and employees are fighting amongst themselves. Illegals or H-1B/legal immigrants are both being used.

We need to increase visibility to get what we want. Ultimately,
given a capitalist set up, the weakest link will get eliminated.
However in the meantime, employees do not have to get used by the
employers.

Mona,
I have seen many Americans relocating to the East to get into senior level
positions as a way of combating the outsourcing. In a global labor market,
Americans have to get out of their homes as everybody else in the world
had to. Not a bad choice for a little while to see the world.


unitednations said:
I received following e-mail from Sona,


Hi,

I'm Sona Shah, the Indian-American who has nothing against the H1B visa itself, only against corporations who abuse the program resulting in exploitation of foreign workers and American residents including green card holders and citizens.

I've been trying to post to the forum to clear up some of the confusion but the webmaster is not letting me in.

I was hoping that you might post a reply for me:

I have nothing against the H1 visa, or any other visa.
My friend atWilco, Kai Barrett was an H1 visa employee. I have nothing against green card holders or immigration in general. I'm an immigrant myself. All I'm seeking is the reform of corporate abuse of these programs. Please tell the readers of the post that I am not anti-visa or anti-immigration.

One thing that I'd like to emphasize in my experience on this issue is that people become very divisive and take sides. Americans often point fingers and say that guest workers/immigrants come here to take jobs.
For their part the guest workers/immigrants say Americans don't deserve their jobs or livlihoods.

What Kai and I learned, is that our civil rights are connected. It makes no sense for American residents and guest workers to be on opposite sides of the fence. Guys - we're all workers. As you can see from what happened at my company, abusing one group only opens the doors to abusing the other. If companies could not underpay the foreign workers, they wouldn't discriminate against Americans.

My hope is that people, whether it be the guest worker or the American resident worker (green card/citizen), that they respect that we're all workers and that our rights are connected. My hope is that we all stand up against discrimination and abuse.

And finally, that I recognize that not all companies abuse visa programs like the H1B. But that there are enough abusers, and enough holes in the system, that it is ripe for abuse. This is all I'm seeking to reform. I hope for a day that guest workers on any visa have the full rights and privileges for working in America that citizens have and that citizens are not displaced.

While often ignored and downplayed, I say to any reader of such posts who are guest workers here seeking permanent residency: remember that unless you too fight against this abuse, that you are fighting for the right to become me, disenfranchised and unemployed. If you're a guest worker seeking to live in America on a long-term basis, its as important for you to fight for what I'm fighting for. Otherwise, you'll swim to this shore to find it devoid of the dream you came seeking.

Let's all stand up for human, civil and employment rights.

Sincerely,

Sona Shah
Click to expand...
 
Thanks unitednations

Thanks unitednations and Sona Shah.... (welcome to the forum btw).

Best of luck for your lawsuit.

The root cause of the problem is Govt's economic policy. Not the immigration policy. Companies want to reduce their expense and increase their profit which they would continue to do with or without immigrants. (With= H1/illegal; Without=outsource). It already happened in manufacturing and happening in IT.

I work for a bigB consulting firm which stopped its recruitment here and tripled employee hiring offshore for the past 3 years. They were very proud in their last year report that bcas of offshore center their profit increased from 12 to 40%. They don't bring anyone here; Even if they do it will be only 2% compared to offshore head count.

Your experience @ wilco was very unfortunate. I know many friends who fly all over the world in this process and made millions in commissions.

I saw in Dibert's comic that Indian's are trained to work all the time except national holidays. Which is true in my case too. When our managers go for fishing over the weekend, we attend product support calls. I think thats why they brought us here.

People who quote you have their own people to address. And no-one cares the non-immigrants. I don't think they have any right of way. They have to always YIELD.

Somehow your name got into the Bill Pascrell's "Defend the American Dream Act of 2005". I don't know how this bill will help immigrants and citizen. Luckily it is still pending..

SEC. 8. TRIPLING H-1B NONIMMIGRANT PETITIONER FEE.
(a) In General- Section 214(c)(9)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1184(c)(9)(B)) is amended by striking `$1,500' and inserting `$4,500'. How can this help anyone other than uncle sam; ?

SEC. 10. PRIVATE RIGHT OF ACTION.
Don't we immigrants have the right to sue the employer now ?
 
Testing the intent.

unitednations said:
I received following e-mail from Sona,


Hi,

I'm Sona Shah, the Indian-American who has nothing against the H1B visa itself, only against corporations who abuse the program resulting in exploitation of foreign workers and American residents including green card holders and citizens.

I've been trying to post to the forum to clear up some of the confusion but the webmaster is not letting me in.

I was hoping that you might post a reply for me:

I have nothing against the H1 visa, or any other visa.
My friend atWilco, Kai Barrett was an H1 visa employee. I have nothing against green card holders or immigration in general. I'm an immigrant myself. All I'm seeking is the reform of corporate abuse of these programs. Please tell the readers of the post that I am not anti-visa or anti-immigration.

One thing that I'd like to emphasize in my experience on this issue is that people become very divisive and take sides. Americans often point fingers and say that guest workers/immigrants come here to take jobs.
For their part the guest workers/immigrants say Americans don't deserve their jobs or livlihoods.

What Kai and I learned, is that our civil rights are connected. It makes no sense for American residents and guest workers to be on opposite sides of the fence. Guys - we're all workers. As you can see from what happened at my company, abusing one group only opens the doors to abusing the other. If companies could not underpay the foreign workers, they wouldn't discriminate against Americans.

My hope is that people, whether it be the guest worker or the American resident worker (green card/citizen), that they respect that we're all workers and that our rights are connected. My hope is that we all stand up against discrimination and abuse.

And finally, that I recognize that not all companies abuse visa programs like the H1B. But that there are enough abusers, and enough holes in the system, that it is ripe for abuse. This is all I'm seeking to reform. I hope for a day that guest workers on any visa have the full rights and privileges for working in America that citizens have and that citizens are not displaced.

While often ignored and downplayed, I say to any reader of such posts who are guest workers here seeking permanent residency: remember that unless you too fight against this abuse, that you are fighting for the right to become me, disenfranchised and unemployed. If you're a guest worker seeking to live in America on a long-term basis, its as important for you to fight for what I'm fighting for. Otherwise, you'll swim to this shore to find it devoid of the dream you came seeking.

Let's all stand up for human, civil and employment rights.

Sincerely,

Sona Shah
Click to expand...


Taken at face value, this letter has a lot of merit. However knowing only too well the modus operandi of the anti immigration movement, organisations such as FAIR and Numbersusa etc. I am not sure what to believe is her intent.

If she truly believes what she says, she ought to along with modifying the H1b visa program, Lobby for a reduction in Immigrant visa delays, against retrogression in general, and for a system that decides that if a worker is truly in short supply where the employer pays the fair and going wage (or slightly above it) then the green card approval process should be less than 1 year.
After all a worker in green card limbo is not good for labour in general right?

So the million dollar question to me is..................Will she support us in lobbying for provisions that will reduce/improve retrogression. If she infact does that then we can agree to work with her to point out the flaws in the H1b program.

If she is not willing to do so then she ought to quit trying to post here and go on and continue to schmooze with her Numbersusa and FAIR friends.
 
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