Social security tax and immigration

N

nashdel

Registered Users (C)
Is there a way we can push for refund of social security taxes in case of not getting immigrant visas? It may not work in short period of time but looking at how things works, money speaks a lot.

I think it will be substantial amount of money and when they are talking about budget deficit, they may listen to us. Does any of the gurus have any idea, what happened to Indian Government talking about such a treaty with US. It was in news few months or years back.


Also, some people in this forum have said, US government would not push for permanent residency as long as they have steady supply of labor in form of H1B. I have different thoughts on this issue. Imagin what happens in case every person who has educated and worked in this country has to go back to home country after 6 years. These are highly skilled and talented people with international experience and education. If these people go back, they will still contribute to their national economies at cost of US. Why would a US company hire an american when they can outsource that same work to US trained person in India or other countries at cheaper rates. Plus, some of these people end up opening their own companies employing potential H1B supply line. US only looses not only in terms of skilled people but also taxes they pay. Not to mention, how much saved money each non immigrant take back home at the end of 6 years. If people know they will not get green card, they will save from Day one and I estimate at least 50000 dollars per person would go out of country. In long term this will cause more harm to US.
 
It's the way of smart thinking

I hope they already consider your thoughts here.
 
Nasdhel, some employers may believe that it is a bad idea losing talent after such 6 years American experience. There are more than one thought on this. From my own management experience and from interaction with hiring managers of a well known software company which hires thousands of H1B's, it is a fact that a lot of employers like to bring fresh H1B's and don't really bother with experienced programmers since they believe that is becoming more and more a commodity. Many managers know that fresh H1B's are hungry for success and eager to work several hours on weekends for the same salary than a 6-year-already-US permanent resident. Think about. A fresh H1B just coming from India would have just to pay rent in a small apartment, no big cars, no pets, few or no kids. The 6-year-already-US permanent resident is likely married, with children, enjoying two pets, a brand new Accord V-6, need to pay a nice house and therefore demand for higher wages and benefits will likely happen. Unlikely the latter will work on Sundays and Saturdays "just as hobby". Sorry if I disappoint you, but it is dog-eat-dog, rat-eat-rat in this world.




nashdel said:
Is there a way we can push for refund of social security taxes in case of not getting immigrant visas? It may not work in short period of time but looking at how things works, money speaks a lot.

I think it will be substantial amount of money and when they are talking about budget deficit, they may listen to us. Does any of the gurus have any idea, what happened to Indian Government talking about such a treaty with US. It was in news few months or years back.


Also, some people in this forum have said, US government would not push for permanent residency as long as they have steady supply of labor in form of H1B. I have different thoughts on this issue. Imagin what happens in case every person who has educated and worked in this country has to go back to home country after 6 years. These are highly skilled and talented people with international experience and education. If these people go back, they will still contribute to their national economies at cost of US. Why would a US company hire an american when they can outsource that same work to US trained person in India or other countries at cheaper rates. Plus, some of these people end up opening their own companies employing potential H1B supply line. US only looses not only in terms of skilled people but also taxes they pay. Not to mention, how much saved money each non immigrant take back home at the end of 6 years. If people know they will not get green card, they will save from Day one and I estimate at least 50000 dollars per person would go out of country. In long term this will cause more harm to US.
Click to expand...
 
not true really

>> The 6-year-already-US permanent resident is likely married, with children, enjoying two pets, a brand new Accord V-6, need to pay a nice house and therefore demand for higher wages and benefits will likely happen. Unlikely the latter will work on Sundays and Saturdays "just as hobby". Sorry if I disappoint you, but it is dog-eat-dog, rat-eat-rat in this world. <<

This is not a sound reasoning. This could be said about anyone working here or there in India. Smart people with experience are always assets to companies.
 
I think it can be said about anyone working here or in India. The difference is that in India I would pay 1/3 of a salary that I would pay for the same body here in the US. Therefore if I am going to spend US$50,000+ paying a programmer, I want the fresh guys here eager to put very, very long hours. I want to keep the burn-out guys there in India or elsewhere the salary is lower. Welcome to the world of competition.



where_is_my_gc said:
>> The 6-year-already-US permanent resident is likely married, with children, enjoying two pets, a brand new Accord V-6, need to pay a nice house and therefore demand for higher wages and benefits will likely happen. Unlikely the latter will work on Sundays and Saturdays "just as hobby". Sorry if I disappoint you, but it is dog-eat-dog, rat-eat-rat in this world. <<

This is not a sound reasoning. This could be said about anyone working here or there in India. Smart people with experience are always assets to companies.
Click to expand...
 
A couple thoughts. Will a new H-1b guy work eagerly for coins if (s)he knows that getting GC is 8-10 year process? I can assume that no. Will an old h-1b worker hold on to the current employer if LC (with quite an old PD) is certified, but I-485 is not filed because of retrogression? I would assume that yes. The world is changing. So are the rules.


GCdreamer2006 said:
Nasdhel, some employers may believe that it is a bad idea losing talent after such 6 years American experience. There are more than one thought on this. From my own management experience and from interaction with hiring managers of a well known software company which hires thousands of H1B's, it is a fact that a lot of employers like to bring fresh H1B's and don't really bother with experienced programmers since they believe that is becoming more and more a commodity. Many managers know that fresh H1B's are hungry for success and eager to work several hours on weekends for the same salary than a 6-year-already-US permanent resident. Think about. A fresh H1B just coming from India would have just to pay rent in a small apartment, no big cars, no pets, few or no kids. The 6-year-already-US permanent resident is likely married, with children, enjoying two pets, a brand new Accord V-6, need to pay a nice house and therefore demand for higher wages and benefits will likely happen. Unlikely the latter will work on Sundays and Saturdays "just as hobby". Sorry if I disappoint you, but it is dog-eat-dog, rat-eat-rat in this world.
Click to expand...
 
sorry guys...but if anyone has misconception that americans think that we are an asset etc...., i would like to remind....that most avg americans think that "we take their jobs" and we can easily be replaced by an american.

its only the business which likes immigrants....because of low cost...otherwise manpower cost will be sky high(remember java programmer making $200/hr in 2000).

but the business does not care how they get the immigrants....i think if you ask any HR they will be more happy to have a fresh H1 than with a 5 year GC/citizen....(for the job of a programmer/developer etcc.., not a lead)

most politicians...like to appease avg americans....or the business lobby....and thats it...
 
I think it is very easy get vast supply of fresh H1Bs willing to work here even temporarily. That happens because many fresh H1Bs - it doesn't matter a lot from where - come here with the mid-term goal of getting American experience and if the GC doesn't work out, fine they would go back to their home country and would get a job there possibly with an American company. Listen when I came that's what I had in mind. Of course once we are here, the majority of us want to hang out for more years and then we all start the reinvindications for faster greencard process, myself included. Last weekend I just talked about this topic during dinner with a friend of mine who is a Senior Program Manager for a very well known company and he confirmed all my perceptions. I don't want to generalize, but I think that is the true for many departments and organizations. Remember, many of us in the software engineering/programming are perceived as commodities these days.


-me- said:
A couple thoughts. Will a new H-1b guy work eagerly for coins if (s)he knows that getting GC is 8-10 year process? I can assume that no. Will an old h-1b worker hold on to the current employer if LC (with quite an old PD) is certified, but I-485 is not filed because of retrogression? I would assume that yes. The world is changing. So are the rules.
Click to expand...
 
capitalist

Its a well known fact that because of cheaper labour america is moving jobs to India/china and gettings most things imported. But some jobs can not be shifted so, I think they will do same for H1s also. They will get new H1bs(every 6 years) for low level job older H1bs are doing but even at lower cost. Big companies will not react to retrogression because they don't want to employ older H1bs/GC holders who have almost same expectations as Americans, you see any economic leverage in here? Well I don't see it.
 
I work with a fortune 10 company. When I interview people for my group, I like to see good years of US experience. Even if HR sends fresh H1B guys, they are not strong candidates for us. And, in any company, managers, and not the HR, select the candidates.
 
The answer is; it depends. It depends what type of tasks you are interviewing for. As PPK_Walther said, there is a need to hire fresh H1B workers as well to do more entry/intermediary level tasks. It depends on the company you are at, department, etc.


defleopard22 said:
I work with a fortune 10 company. When I interview people for my group, I like to see good years of US experience. Even if HR sends fresh H1B guys, they are not strong candidates for us. And, in any company, managers, and not the HR, select the candidates.
Click to expand...
 
I am surprised that so many people think that employers do not want us. This is what I heard so far on this thread

american people think we are taking away their jobs
american employers do not like GC holders
Amercan politicians listens to employers and people only.

I am not in a tech professional but if all that is true, whose support are we counting on then. lets pack our bags and go home.

I do not know the inside story in tech and may be what was said may be true but I have couple of points.

Recent category of H1B was created for people with masters in US and reasoning given by US companies was to retain technological edge. To me this indicates big companies care for US educated trained people.

secondly, there are other professionals involved too. Not all of them can be outsourced. If a job requires a license which comes after US training, how can you hire H1b year after year.

I still think we are considered valuable otherwise their would not be any talk of legislation. One thing we can do to highlight our importance is by asking for Social security tax if we decide to return home. It is a benign demand and may focus on financial contribution from H1B.
 
Y'all Wrong!

I think you all wrong.
You're speculating. This is just the bombing of old fashion immigration system.
They're trying to patch it with in political borders.
Everybody agree that we need a new immigration system but they don't want to take this risk right now against to Katrina's jobless victim.
Just patience guys and be possitive, at least try it.
Everything will be good.
All we have a home country to go at least.
 
Social Security Contrib claims..

While the double treaty does not exist today bet India and US, recently several politicians are taking up this cause with Ext Affairs ministry to highlight contribution made by NRIs - a conservative estimate of 50000 Indians * 5000 = 2,50,000 per year and several years of contributions from Indians.

I saw some articles in Rediff and some local newspaper where they are collecting data so that this money can be invested for Infrastructure Development in India.

They were planning to return back the money in phases after the retirement age of the individual for the contribution made to SS. Even if they did not return, it will still go to a worthy cause ... atleast couple of million to national coffers ??

--- Atleast all of us can give out the length of stay and the contribution and how it can be used for national infrastructure development and write to PM directly , on asking India to talk to US on this subject.

There is no point complaining we cannot get Medicare/SS benefits as we all knew this when we came to work in US.. It is the Law!.
 
More evidence to Brain Drain

http://by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.c...c9073fcff46b40b8d41b5d8419dfe85cf1538cd01bff4

David Heenan's new book, "Flight Capital: The Alarming Exodus of
America's Best and Brightest"
http://www.flight-capital.com/
explores the consequences of immigrants who return to their home
country equipped with the education, training, and work
experience acquired in the U.S, resulting in a brain drain for
the U.S. According to Heenan, approximately 200,000 foreign-born
Americans have already returned to their native homelands
attracted by the opportunities available back home. The book
warns that current immigration policies dissuade foreign talent
from settling in the U.S. and warns that immigration reform is
critical to the economic survival of the U.S. The book examines
in detail how countries around the world have benefitted from the
innovations that returning natives have brought to their home
countries. All is not lost, according to David Heenan, who
provides in his book a dozen strategies for winning the talent
war. For an article excerpt, see here.
http://starbulletin.com/2005/10/23/business/bizcol.html
We invite those immigration professionals who are interested to
contribute articles either reviewing or commenting on this book.
 
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