RTD vs. National Passport (USCIS says get NP, twice!)

S

sevenTenths

Registered Users (C)
(Temp I-551 issued 5/04, new GC 1/05 - backdated to 5/03; I-485 RD was: 11/99).

I know this topic has been beaten to death on the forum, but here it goes again…
First of all, by reading this forum, I’m very in tune with people’s fears, doubts and uncertainties over the whole risk and the “up to the discretion of the PO officer” reality when you enter with your NP. I’m just as worried and want to be as safe as possible.

During stamping last year the IO said I shouldn’t get a RTD now and to instead get my NP. I was too terrified of violating my status & got a RTD. Now I face the same dilemma while planning a trip for 8/05, especially since I hate to surrender my RTD valid ‘till 7/05 (terrified to be w/o a document to travel on emergencies… have older parents in another foreign country etc…. you all know what I mean).

Today I called the NCSC and was told for the second time that I should only get the RTD in case my embassy refuses to issue me a NP. I repeated my question several times in different ways and asked if this violates my status etc… The woman insisted that I DON’T apply for the RTD. I know that a lot of us are much more informed than some of the people answering questions at NCSC, but I’m really getting tired after all these years and want to believe in what she’s telling me.

Now, I have been just as paranoid as everyone else over the whole thing, but this conversation got me thinking that this is truly what CIS wants!
I got the sense that they WANT all of us (LPRs) to try to get our NPs and thereby reduce their workload in issuing RTDs to those who can't get a NP. In the meantime, I have been told that my embassy is issuing passports to former asylees/refugees without a problem. I think I’ll give them a call and get that started.

Is there anyone with a recent first-hand experience on this topic? (only the issue of the NP, I mean, not things such as travel to the former country etc.) Anyone got the same answer from CIS? Anyone traveled with the NP?

BTW, someone here posted that they didn’t send in their valid RTD with the app for the new one, and that it was fine. However, at NCSC they warned me against doing so & causing delays in my app.

Thanks very much!
 
I will not buy what a telephone operator (or a front desk clerk) supposely said. I will abide by the comments of the adjudication officer who approved my I-485 and told me national passport could not be used.




sevenTenths said:
(Temp I-551 issued 5/04, new GC 1/05 - backdated to 5/03; I-485 RD was: 11/99).

I know this topic has been beaten to death on the forum, but here it goes again…
First of all, by reading this forum, I’m very in tune with people’s fears, doubts and uncertainties over the whole risk and the “up to the discretion of the PO officer” reality when you enter with your NP. I’m just as worried and want to be as safe as possible.

During stamping last year the IO said I shouldn’t get a RTD now and to instead get my NP. I was too terrified of violating my status & got a RTD. Now I face the same dilemma while planning a trip for 8/05, especially since I hate to surrender my RTD valid ‘till 7/05 (terrified to be w/o a document to travel on emergencies… have older parents in another foreign country etc…. you all know what I mean).

Today I called the NCSC and was told for the second time that I should only get the RTD in case my embassy refuses to issue me a NP. I repeated my question several times in different ways and asked if this violates my status etc… The woman insisted that I DON’T apply for the RTD. I know that a lot of us are much more informed than some of the people answering questions at NCSC, but I’m really getting tired after all these years and want to believe in what she’s telling me.

Now, I have been just as paranoid as everyone else over the whole thing, but this conversation got me thinking that this is truly what CIS wants!
I got the sense that they WANT all of us (LPRs) to try to get our NPs and thereby reduce their workload in issuing RTDs to those who can't get a NP. In the meantime, I have been told that my embassy is issuing passports to former asylees/refugees without a problem. I think I’ll give them a call and get that started.

Is there anyone with a recent first-hand experience on this topic? (only the issue of the NP, I mean, not things such as travel to the former country etc.) Anyone got the same answer from CIS? Anyone traveled with the NP?

BTW, someone here posted that they didn’t send in their valid RTD with the app for the new one, and that it was fine. However, at NCSC they warned me against doing so & causing delays in my app.

Thanks very much!
Click to expand...
 
thankful said:
I will not buy what a telephone operator (or a front desk clerk) supposely said. I will abide by the comments of the adjudication officer who approved my I-485 and told me national passport could not be used.
Click to expand...

I am going to my I-485 interview next week. I have hired an attorney to represent me. During our interview preparation she has stressed that no we cannot use our national passports EVEN AFTER ADJUSTMENT. And she is aware of cases in which former asylees whose asylum applications are being reopened for this reason alone.
 
7/10th,

I was just writing on the similar subject after what happened to me at the airport, read http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=160292

so it seems maybe there is a high level directive in the INS to encourage people to get their NPs. What countries are you from people? I called the consulate of Ukraine. The only way to get a passport for me is to get a one way return letter, yeah right :D. I am fine with my RTD or reentry permit as long as I dont get hard time when I reenter.
 
Are you guys serious? Stop for a few minutes and take a step back... Take a close look at who you are dealing with.

We know that CIS does not have a clear guideline of doing anything. Most of their employees are not trained on the current laws and guidelines. When an operator is telling you to use your passport, she is quoting the general rule for all PRs that have adjudicated in all other forms (except under asylum/refugee). True all other PRs do not need RTDs (which includes Re-entry permits if their trip is less than 1year).

The only thing one must ask him/herself is: "Does using my national passport violate my claim for asylum?"

And no matter how you look at this question - the answer will always be YES. By using your national passport you are showing that the country's rules and laws apply to you. Every time you enter a country with that passport you are walking in as a national of country X. This severly violates your claim of persecution.

So - for those of you who have a GC, i suggest getting a re-entry permit. There is no way CIS will deny you entry to the USA with a valid GC and re-entry permit. Let them say what they want.

The same goes for asylees waiting for adjustment. Keep applying for your RTDs and never travel with your national passports. This is common sense.
 
My personal experience

I have been using my national passport since getting the green card. I have entered the U.S. with it 5 times through 5 different airports. I was never questioned about it. My last entry was through Houston and they gave me a bunch of shit for about 30 mins. They took me to a room and did an extensive "interview". They kept asking if I went back to my home country. They tried to find any reason to get me into trouble. One thing that was very clear is that traveling w/ my passport was never an issue with them. If it were a problem, they would have gotten me for that. In addition, I should add that I too called USCIS on numerous occasions (usually after reading this forum), and each time I was told that it is not a problem. The last time I called, I was told that going home is cause for a problem, but that I SHOULD use my national passport for general travel if I could get one. In the end, let's just do what we think is best, I just think it is a good idea if we keep sharing our experiences with each other. It helps us all make better decisions.
 
I recently renewed my national passport from our embassy in washington valid for 10 yrs.I have the greatest peace of mind now that i don`t have to beg for RTD or re-entry permits.

I know that i did not break the law by doing so.I`m of my national origin i`m not American therefore nobody can order me to or not to obtain my national passport now that i`m a PR.
 
Energizer & Sessanga:

Thank you for sharing your experiences. However, do you think it's wise to only renew your national passport only AFTER a green card is obtained? Not when you're still in the midst of an I-485 adjustment like most of us here?
 
ukulele said:
Energizer & Sessanga:

Thank you for sharing your experiences. However, do you think it's wise to only renew your national passport only AFTER a green card is obtained? Not when you're still in the midst of an I-485 adjustment like most of us here?

I strongly suggest that you renew your NP after adjusting to PR.Please do not even think about it until after obtaining I-155.

I also want to use this opportunity to let you know that BCIS is just making money.They will never tell you that once you change your status you`re no longer obliged to use RTD or re-entry permits.They know that you`re are all scared.

All i`m saying is if you`re timid go ahead and pay for travel documents but if you have a way to re-new your NP from your embassy feel free to do so.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
question for Sessanga Charlesa and Energizer

Do your NPs have to be stamped? Or do you just use them in conjuction with the Green Card? Thanks much!
 
National passport

By applying for asylum you didn't automatically renounce your citizenship so that when you renew your passport you are showing that you lied.
By you being able to renew your national passport also does not mean that you wouldn't face persecution if you go back. Not every asylum case is based on being persecuted by government. It is possible that an ethnic minority or some other minority group is being persecuted by civilians and the government is not willing or maybe just unable to protect you.

However, I'd like to digress here to something else. The thread that intertwines through these discussions is that whoever renews his national passport is accused of having a fake asylum case. What is ironic is that the people who are so loud acusing others of faking something are asylees themselves. I would expect more sensitivity from them. I would say that even though each of our cases is highly individual and different there is something common to all of us. In one way or another we were persecuted (shunned, insulted, not neccessarily physically) because we didn't fit someone else's idea of what should we think, how we should talk, what we should do etc. Now we come here and are persecuted again by people who were also done injustice just because we dared to do something they think we shouldn't do. I didn't renew my national passport and have no intention to do it because I resent that country as it is right now and am using RTD even though it is sometimes inconvenient. I don't reject the possibility, however, that some day I will if it becomes a decent democratic country. After all I grew up over there and have family. What I would never do is accuse someone of lying in his asylum application just because he renewed his passport while still waiting for GC.

I would say live and let live. Don't restrain other people by your fears and insecurities.

Alex
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alex_e38 -

I'm sorry you feel as though people are accusing one another of lying in their asylum cases. I certainly do not get that vibe from reading this particular thread. Although there have been some instances in which a few members have attacked one another.

If you read my earlier contribution, you will see that I am pointing out what CIS might use as an exuse. Playing the 'devi's advocate' is often the best way of exploring options.

The best thing about this forum is that people are very responsive and always share their opinions/ideas/thoughts. But in the end, we all know the individual is responsible for his/her actions.
 
i was told that after getting GC . U can easily renew your National Pasport and Travel whereever u want?!!! but if u go to your ownembassy while u are on asylum status and renew your passport to go home.Your goverment may accuse u on betrayal and it may negatively effect to your relatives backhome...
i dont know what will happen if u obtain GC through asylum and visit home country .Can they revoke your GC or deny citizenship ?
 
LolaLI

LolaLI,
I wasn't thinking of you or this particular thread, and wouldn't want to single out anyone in particular. I just posted my thoughts on something that has been going on to a greater or less extent.
The main issue I have here is that this forum is intended to let people help each other by sharing their experiences and some people get attacked when they do that. I remember a while back when I posted my experience (actually my wife's) with advance parole I was accused of being a liar (and others who posted the same experience) just because someone's interpretation of USCIS documents doesn't support it. It is really annoing when instead of exchanging usefull information and making each others lives easier you have to deal with personal attacks.

I wish you and everybody else all best.

Alex
 
Alex_e38 said:
LolaLI,
I wasn't thinking of you or this particular thread, and wouldn't want to single out anyone in particular. I just posted my thoughts on something that has been going on to a greater or less extent.
The main issue I have here is that this forum is intended to let people help each other by sharing their experiences and some people get attacked when they do that. I remember a while back when I posted my experience (actually my wife's) with advance parole I was accused of being a liar (and others who posted the same experience) just because someone's interpretation of USCIS documents doesn't support it. It is really annoing when instead of exchanging usefull information and making each others lives easier you have to deal with personal attacks.

I wish you and everybody else all best.

Alex
Click to expand...
The bottom line is we`re only and only answerable to non other than BCIS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top