Revoking citizenship

U

Upstater

Registered Users (C)
It is a theoretical question, but an interesting one. The USCIS websites repeatedly states that US citizenship is for forever and can not be taken away.
I know it is not true. You can have your citizenship revoked for living outside of the US for a long time without any ties (abandoning it) or if they can show that it was obtained via fraud.

Question: Can citizenship ve revoked for any other reasons? Crime, etc?
 
Yes.I know of case, where guy got deported 10 yrs after getting his citizenship.It seems it lied on his intial application .Something to do with Asylum.:confused:
 
I think it could be revoked ONLY if you lied in your N-400, of cause only in a case of BIG lie, not "forgotten" traffic tickets & Co.
 
There are several reasons why one can lose citizenship if it has been obtained thru' naturalization (not via birth as far as I am aware). Most involve telling untruths in either the permanent residency (Green Card) process or in the N-400 citizenship application. There might be others, for example treason.

However, to the best of my knowledge, one CANNOT lose citizenship by being away from the US indefinitely (unlike permanent residency which one can lose under certain conditions of extended absence). You do not have to return to the US periodically to retain US citizenship.
 
z350 said:
I think it could be revoked ONLY if you lied in your N-400, of cause only in a case of BIG lie, not "forgotten" traffic tickets & Co.
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This is incorrect. There are many circumstances you could lose your citizenship.

1. Convicted For An Act Of Treason Against The United States
2. Holding A Policy Level Position In A Foreign Country
3. Serving In Your Native Country if That Country Is Engaged In Hostilities Or At War With The United States.
4. Serving In Your Native Country Armed Forces As An Officer Or A Non-Commissioned Officer
5. Lying To The USCIS During The Naturalization Process
6. Refusal To Testify Before Congress About Your Subversive Activities

http://www.newcitizen.us/losing.html
 
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In addition to the above, from the official state deparment :
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

(2) taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

(3) entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);

(4) accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);

(5) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

(6) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war") (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);

(7) conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
 
Upstater said:
You can have your citizenship revoked for living outside of the US for a long time without any ties (abandoning it)
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No you cannot loose your citizenship by living outside the US. This is a common myth that is actually for people with Green Cards, not Citizenship. As a citizen, you can decide to live outside the US for 60 years and still not loose your citizenship.

As mentioned in the above those are reasons you might lose your citizenship though...
 
Section 349

I have read those articles as EQUATE mentioned. I think the US Immigration has conflicting views on this and I think they will take the direction that best suits US Govt.:

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state.

I am a Cdn citizen, obtained through naturalization many years ago. US somewhere in their articles say that it allows dual citizenship, and that it wont be able to protect if I am in Canada, because of it. Thats fine. But, does that mean I lose my US Citizenship. I don't think so, as they have just granted me knowing that I'm a Cdn Citizen. So I think there are articles that require court interpertations.

(4) accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state.

Does this mean I cannot go back to Canada and work for municipal, provincial, or federal government, not even as a clerk?

I think there is a lot of crap in such a policy, and I don't think this has been challenged, but if so, it could, in my opinion raise some democratic issues.

Lastly, now that you are a USC, American govt. wants you to file taxes for ever even if you leave US and started living in some other country. Uncle Sam wants your money regardless where you live.
 
I am pretty sure working as a clerk in Canada in a municipal, provincial or federal government will not endanger your US citizenship. However, should you get elected as an MP and then get to become Foreign Minister, then perhaps.

NoJob said:
Does this mean I cannot go back to Canada and work for municipal, provincial, or federal government, not even as a clerk?
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NoJob said:
I have read those articles as EQUATE mentioned. I think the US Immigration has conflicting views on this and I think they will take the direction that best suits US Govt.:

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state.

I am a Cdn citizen, obtained through naturalization many years ago. US somewhere in their articles say that it allows dual citizenship, and that it wont be able to protect if I am in Canada, because of it. Thats fine. But, does that mean I lose my US Citizenship. I don't think so, as they have just granted me knowing that I'm a Cdn Citizen. So I think there are articles that require court interpertations.
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It applies only to any citizenship of other countries AFTER you became a US citizen. Basically, you are not allowed to apply for other country's citizenship once you become a US citizen.

Triple Citizen said:
I am pretty sure working as a clerk in Canada in a municipal, provincial or federal government will not endanger your US citizenship. However, should you get elected as an MP and then get to become Foreign Minister, then perhaps.
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You are basing this on what? The passport application specifically ask you whether you ever worked for a foreign govornment since you became a US citizen. If you have, you are required to attach an explanation. There is no ambiguities and it is explicitly clear:
"perform the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state?"
 
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Your evidence disproves your point even further.

This is from Wikipedia:
"Political opponents have accused Aziz of holding United States citizenship, in addition to his Pakistani citizenship. However, he denies that he ever held US citizenship, and no evidence has been produced to show that he has ever been an American citizen."
 
As I understand it, you cannot loose US citizenship by becoming a naturalized citizenship of another country unless that, in doing so, you *intended* to renounce your US citizenship.

Take a look at the Dual Citizenship FAQ: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/. In particular: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html#LossCit

Dual Citizenship FAQ said:
On 16 April 1990, the State Department adopted a new policy on dual citizenship, under which US citizens who perform one of the potentially expatriating acts listed above are normally presumed not to have done so with intent to give up US citizenship. Thus, the overwhelming majority of loss-of-citizenship cases nowadays will involve people who have explicitly indicated to US consular officials that they want to give up their US citizenship.
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There is a link in that paragraph that points to: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/policies.html#losscit

This, in turn, points to: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

Glancing through it, it seems definitive.
 
Like civilised folks we can agree to disagree. It is a huge controversy in Pakistan. Not that I am the least bit interested in Pakistani politics. My father was friends with Shaukat Aziz when in the 70s, decades before SA entered politics, he was working for World Bank. My information is based on that friendship.
 
Triple Citizen said:
Like civilised folks we can agree to disagree. It is a huge controversy in Pakistan. Not that I am the least bit interested in Pakistani politics. My father was friends with Shaukat Aziz when in the 70s, decades before SA entered politics, he was working for World Bank. My information is based on that friendship.
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What is there to disagree? He is not a US citizen. Period. The man himself denied he is a US citizen in public. Basically you are accusing him of being a fraud. But that's not point of this discussion.

The only way your argument has any valid point is if he admits he is a US citizen and still get to retain the citizenship, which he didn't.
 
Totally agree. This gets political and against the soul of this thread and forum. I take it all back. Thank you for correcting me.
 
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