Retrogression and NIW

paskal said:
thanks desi2007
we are making good progress btw, if all goes well, we will all be in a much better position.
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What progress are we talking about here?

I don't see anything moving in this area. They have made this harder and harder and are able to get the number of physicians they want. The major hurdle, in my opinion, is AMA. In case of nurses, I think there was not much opposition from Nurses' unions.
 
m_img said:
What progress are we talking about here?

I don't see anything moving in this area. They have made this harder and harder and are able to get the number of physicians they want. The major hurdle, in my opinion, is AMA. In case of nurses, I think there was not much opposition from Nurses' unions.
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My friend,

All three of your assertions are mistaken.

1. The Conrad 30 program filled only 950/1500 slots last year. the ratio of J1 and H1 physicians has reversed in favor of H1's, while hospitals are happy, the smaller states and rural coordinators are hopping mad at the their inability to attract img physicians. They are lobbying for serious changes. please look back at the punitive provisions in CIR 2007, that was a part of this who;le story.

2. AMA supports IMG service in under served areas AND supports getting timely green cards once service is complete. They wrote us a letter to this effect- this is not hearsay, I have the letter. So we have no opposition from AMA. In fact no one is lobbying against us. The primary problems we face are: the current immigration environment where everything is being vetoed "because I did not get my provision" and the food fight between competing interests (all friends of IMG's) as to the distribution/supply of IMG's with service commitments- small vs large states, rural vs urban and hospitals/academic centers vs under served areas. Again I'm not just saying this, I have witnessed this discussion first hand.

3. Nurses Unions are in absolute opposition to foreign nurses. The greatest reason that nurses relief remains elusive is that the unions have found (!?) a champion in Senator Durbin. After the senate recently passed the nurses recapture, the California Nurses Union mounted a huge lobbying effort to get it dropped it conference. American Nurses love the shortage, pays are high, jobs are freely available and mobility is easy.

Finally the question of progress. If you are serious, and would like to know then follow the instructions above. The information is provided in confidence to us and cannot be posted anywhere. As I pointed out earlier we even have a draft bill. Some of us have traveled to DC more than once to work on this. We do need help though to push for introduction and passage, opposition is coming from unlikely sources with vested interests in this debate.

Progress so far, and the very fact that we can be optimistic at all is thanks to IV (which is nothing but people like you and me) and thanks to others like Rajiv Khanna and the IMG forum who have long supported these moves.
 
a lot of questions....

mostly rhetorical.
it's better to be a realist. or so i have learnt at least.
most of this stuff ends up being far more complicated than it appears on the surface. our simplistic views don't explain most things. :)

you have a choice. fret about it and ask all these questions or come help. we are a serious group and we are actively trying to help ourselves. we have attended senate meetings, white house meetings and gathered support from friendly groups. we are short yet. our measure may still be in serious danger. one of my lessons from IV has been that talk is cheap, and very few people are willing to put their foots, hands, money or anything where their mouths are.

"Maybe because of Conrad 30 people, I think doing residency of H1s may be numbered or dwindling... programs may have to go to J1 route... and hence conrad 30 will be happy."

the trend is the opposite according to all available figures. see the WP article today on the same issue. and if even it it's true that people will move back to J1 it may take years- and in those years i will have my GC anyway so it does not help.

"If smaller and rural areas are serious, why they're asking for cheap IMGs. It is free market, they should make it attractive to US and IMGs to serve their areas"

they do try. ultimately resources are limited. currently one reason a favorable immigration bill is blocked is because these folks hold and wield a veto. we can keep thinking what they "should do" or help with a workable solution.

"Again, I don't have any inside.... but.... what AMA does behind the seen is different than what the letter you're referring to.... remember Senate Majority leader Sen. Bill Frist was a Physician and there are other physicians.... why are not the more vocal... why are they afraid."

it's not that simple. if you are waiting for AMA to lobby for us, it's a long wait bud. the fact though is that they have signalled their wilingness for a deal and set out their position as not opposing us. AMA is not lobbying against us. It's others that have problems.

"What does Sen. Durbin have to gain... I think it makes sense though that they allow foreign nurses to fill the shortage."

what does he have to gain? think about it a while. why does any politician take stands like this?
what makes sense to you and me does not matter to anyone. SKIL made sense to us too and it went nowhere.


"So, what and when changes are coming...."

we hope! and yet again...announcing details is the best way to get the proposal derailed. been there, seen that. this is not yet public stuff and will not be posted on forums.

"Oh by the way, they don't need wholesale changes, powerful lawmakers attach these changes to the bills, like war funding or budgets etc, which are never vetoed."

again, life is not quite that simple. otherwise the problem would be solved by now. we would have the 218,000 GC recaptured if nothing else. as for "what we need", it's not about us...it's about "them".

enough said. you can either trust what i'm saying and join in to help or keep asking this stuff anonymously on web forums. i'm again appealing to all of you to join iv-physicians, we will arrange a teleconference soon with an update so everyone can be up to speed on what's happening in DC.
 
retrogression?

must not be so bad then
nobody wants to do anything.
all talk...no walk!

i'm disappointed. i thought the energy here was constructive.
 
Hey hashitoxicosis

I believe you can change jobs on EAD once your 5 years are up. You have fulfilled your committment, your I140 is approved, you'll just have to keep extending your EADs in perpetuity. All it is is extra expense and a delay in moving towards citizenship (but other than voting for the school board that sucks your accounts dry, not much benefit in citizenship anyway).
 
Fellowship with EAD

After finishing the 5 year NIW, can you do fellowship with the EAD. Some say that as long as you have served the 5 year term you can do anything as long as it is in the medical field and others say that you have to stay in a similar job.
ANy thoughts?
 
Can someone clarify it for me please. As per my understanding, there are two ways, a physician can file for NIW:
OPTION 1. He agree to serve in underserved area (with a binding contract of 5 years between him/her and the employer).
or, OPTION 2. He is a member of the professions holding an advanced degree or an alien of exceptional ability. In this option, MD is can change job anytime.

In the I-140 form, in the section of 'PETITION TYPE:this petiton is being filed for', I can see the space to mark for option number 2 but I didnot find anyWhere to indicate the OPTION 1.

Any input will be appreciated. Thx a bunch
 
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nature of job?

hadron said:
Hey hashitoxicosis

I believe you can change jobs on EAD once your 5 years are up. You have fulfilled your committment, your I140 is approved, you'll just have to keep extending your EADs in perpetuity. All it is is extra expense and a delay in moving towards citizenship (but other than voting for the school board that sucks your accounts dry, not much benefit in citizenship anyway).
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Hadron,

Since there is no LC and the job description on the I140 commits you for 5 years, does this mean you can do ANY job once 5 years are over? By this I mean, can you not practice..do health care consulting/public health/drug research etc?

Thanks in advance..!
 
NIW, retrogression and activism

The regulations, I believe, are clear on this... that one can work in any capacity once 5 years are over. However, the final adjudication rests with the immigration officer assigned to your case. As is often the case, there are grave inconsistencies in the interpretation of the law. Physicians get NIW based on the fact that they are serving an medically underserved population. A narrow interpretation of law may mean that you need to continue working, as a physician, in an underserved area to justify the NIW at the time of adjudication, even after 5 years are completed. The fact that 3 prominent immigration attorneys, including Rajiv, have 3 different viewpoints, emphasizes the lack of clarity on this issue. One end of the spectrum is the ultra conservative approach to continue working with the employer/ area where you did your NIW time till hell freezes over..... or, at the other end, take your chances and work anyhere on an EAD after the five years and be prepared to file a lawsuit, should CIS reject your petition. I am leaning towards the latter, since in the grand scheme of things I cannot sacrifice my kids' upbringing just so that I can get permanent residnce.
By the way, retrogression has become worse for Jan 2008. It may be time to for us to join paskal in lobbying for our own selves. I will go to the IV website today and register. There is no harm in trying...
 
Thanks

for the reply jupiturn. it is truly messy. in fact all three prominent attorneys that i have seen giving opinions on this agree that you can do any job after 5 years. the problem being raised is that uscis has a penchant for narrow and often misplaced interpretations of the law...

i wonder if anyone thinks we should collectively ask for an opinion from USCIS on this. can this be done?


Jupiturn, you would be welcomed into our effort.

a prominent senator's office has requested the following information from us asap, can someone help?

- documentation of the role of FMGs in the american medical system especially in underserved areas
-specifically the important role played by retrogression affected indian (and chinese) physicians
-the effects of retrogression on physician immigration and choices

if any of you have resources or information that can help please let me know...thanks!
 
thanks

for the help!
i did send out all the AMA workforce data on IMG's and the AAMC workforce report which is not about or in favor of IMGs but does a great job of enumerating the huge shortage.

there is a series of articles appearing in the Las Vegas Sun on employers abusing J1 physicians. some of you may have seen these. we along with the IMG forum have been pushing to add safeguards for physicians in the J1 program. the journalist that is writing these stories wants to do another one, if anyone is interested in talking to him or knows someone with insight, please let me know.
 
Don't need safeguards.
- Just the ability to switch jobs within HPSA/MUA if the job you have blows.
- Or even better, the ability to go out on your own if the job you have blows.
- drop the H1b requirement. Allow people to file NIW, obtain temporary permanent residency (like in a marriage GC) and work on that.
 
Hi Hadron

Physicians are belongs to which category?? I am in H1B, applied Labor and approved from Chicago. Filed I-140 and I-485 Concurrently in August 01, 2007
EB2?? or EB3??
Thanks in advance.



hadron said:
Don't need safeguards.
- Just the ability to switch jobs within HPSA/MUA if the job you have blows.
- Or even better, the ability to go out on your own if the job you have blows.
- drop the H1b requirement. Allow people to file NIW, obtain temporary permanent residency (like in a marriage GC) and work on that.
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sechuri9 said:
Physicians are belongs to which category?? Filed I-140 and I-485 Concurrently in August 01, 2007
EB2?? or EB3??
Click to expand...

I know they belong to EB2. I have a another question. When you submit you specify I-140, is there a place where you mention that this EB2,I suspect there is. And when does USCIS accepts that is EB2 or EB3? I suspect at the time adjudication... please comment... Thanks,
 
We need to tick this column.

A member of the professions holding an advanced degree or an alien of exceptional ability (who is NOT seeking a National Interest Waiver).

The Adjudicated officer makes decision when it is 140 approvals.

(203(b)(2) Member of Professions w/Adv. Degree or Exceptional Ability

Thanks



m_img said:
I know they belong to EB2. I have a another question. When you submit you specify I-140, is there a place where you mention that this EB2,I suspect there is. And when does USCIS accepts that is EB2 or EB3? I suspect at the time adjudication... please comment... Thanks,
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Conrad Bill for physicians in Underserved areas

In case anyone thought I was just blowing hot air previously,
Senator Conrad introduced his bill (s. 2672) yesterday, co sponsored by Senator Brownback.

The bill will provide GC cap exemptions on completing a J1 waiver or NIW. It will also allow H1 docs to serve 3 years under the Conrad program and get the same exemption. H1 docs will also get an H1 cap exemption.

Check Siskind's blog for the full text: http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2008/02/senator-conrad.html

IV-Physicians has played a significant role in pushing this bill to the point of introduction. We could do with help! See my earlier posts for directions on joining the group.
 
Do tou think congress has the will to pass this bill without a comprehensive immigration reform? Congress seems to be more worried about granting voting rights to illegal aliens than supporting skilled workers.
 
One question for all:
I am currently into my fifth year of j waiver (ends July 2008). I am on H1B and also have an EAD. After my fifth year, if I use EAD and lose H1B, will be able to re-apply for H1B if EAD collapses for any reason? Will I be subject to cap ?(I was counted when I first applied for H1B in 2003).
 
rattam said:
Do tou think congress has the will to pass this bill without a comprehensive immigration reform? Congress seems to be more worried about granting voting rights to illegal aliens than supporting skilled workers.
Click to expand...

You will never know unless you try, right?
 
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