Refund of $155 PP - Forced Renunciation Fees during the Month of May 2010

S

sam012007

Registered Users (C)
Just starting this post to gather everybody's experience with the Indian Embassies around the country on the REFUND issue for the Fees forcefully collected in the month of May 2010 (May 6th - May 31st)

Please combine the comments for all the locations in this one thread.

Here is my situation:
My OCI should be delivered by this weekend if not next weekend and than I will start my flight to get the refund.

Your choices can be the following or may be more:
1) Sent emails did not receive any answer.
2) Sent emails received favorable answers - please put the text
3) Sent emails received non-favorable answers - please put the text
4) Will deal with it after getting the OCI in hand.
5) Do not care about refund, just want OCI.
6) Will take legal action if money not refunded.

what else?

Moderators (akgarg; VivaLasVegas; Immigr8), is this thread worthy enough to be sticky until we really have a clear stand from Indian Embassy on the Refund issue?
 
Consolidated several emails of all concerned in government and published in NY tracker thread / OCI app thread .I have sent about 5 emails so far .

Received a copy of mail from JS(CPG)
To

Jt.Secretary(Foreigners)

Sir,

As desired, the e.mail is forwarded to you for appropriate action.

O/o JS(C&PG)

Received following from CG. NY

The new guidelines came into effect wef. 1st June, 2010. As of now, the fee already paid as applicable on the date of service rendered is not being refunded.


If there is any development in this regard, we will announce through our website.
Received from GOPIO
DEcision is still pending.

If there is a plan for class action litigation, i am willing to participate.

However there is very little hope at this time.

Here are the email addreeses / email that was sent :




eam@mea.gov.in;
mospk@mea.gov.in;
diream@mea.gov.in;
dirmospk@mea.gov.in;
dirfs@mea.gov.in
psfs@mea.gov.in;
jsskc@mea.gov.in;
jsams@mea.gov.in;
jscpv@mea.gov.in;
jscons@mea.gov.in;
pankaj.saran@pmo.nic.in;
jaideep.sarkar@pmo.nic.in;
jsds@moia.nic.in;
jscpg-mha@nic.in;
dirpg-mha@nic.in;
hm@nic.in;
vayalar@sansad.nic.in;
asfah@nic.in;
rpnath@nic.in;j
sbm@nic.in;
cg@indiacgny.org;
dcg@indiacgny.org;
gopio-intl@sbcglobal.net;
ambassadoroffice@indiagov.org;
info@fianynjct.org;
niravmehta@fianynjct.org;
spmart2004@yahoo.com;
nimeshdave@fianynjct.org;
manmohan@sansad.nic.in;
soniagandhi@sansad.nic.in;
chavanprithviraj@sansad.nic.in;
dcmoff@indiagov.org

Some of the emails to these people bounce when sent from public sites like yahoo. So you may have to try from different domains.
In specific, i added the following email addresses :
eam@mea.gov.in - SM Krishna
mospk@mea.gov.in - Praneet Kaur
diream@mea.gov.in - Dir of Min of Ext Affars
dirmospk@mea.gov.in - Dir of Min of State for ext Aff
dirfs@mea.gov.in - Dir of Foreign Sec
psfs@mea.gov.in - off of Foreign Sec
jsskc@mea.gov.in - Addl Sec
jsams@mea.gov.in - Joint Sec (America)
jscpv@mea.gov.in - Joint Sec (Passport and Visa)
jscons@mea.gov.in - Joint Sec (Consulate)
pankaj.saran@pmo.nic.in - Joint Sec - Prime Min office
jaideep.sarkar@pmo.nic.in - Ps to PM
jsds@moia.nic.in - Min of Overseas Indian Affairs
jscpg-mha@nic.in - Min of Home Affairs - Complaint Cell
dirpg-mha@nic.in- Dir of Min of Home Affairs - Complaint Cell
hm@nic.in - Home ministry
vayalar@sansad.nic.in - NRI Affairs Minister
Right to Know Act email address
asfah@nic.in - Addl Sec
rpnath@nic.in - Joint Sec (Admin)
jsbm@nic.in - Joint Sec (BM)

Content of Email on the following lines :

Revision of surrender fee from $175 to $20 - Refund of Amount paid

While I welcome the decision of the Indian Govt for revising the surrender certificate fee from $175 to $20 for all those who were Indian citizens prior to June 1, 2010, I'd like to represent that I have not been treated justly. In May , 2010 , I was forced to submit applications for the Surrender Certificate with the Consulate General of India along with the fees of $175 each for every member of my family . I had no option then but to adhere to the rules as penalties applied if we didnt act quick enough.

With the amended rule, I request you to refund the excess charge of $155.00 . There is no justification for charging differential amounts for the same category of people (all who obtained naturalization by June 1 , 2010). CG is trying to justify that $175 was the prevaling fee between May 4 and 30. The $175 fee is an aberration and not a fee that stood for several months and hence that argument is invalid.

A special camp was held by CGNY on May 29 and they collected $175 from thousands of people who stood for several hours in lines without food and water to comply with the law, only to know that the next day the fee is brought to the new $20 level.

The differential amount is a huge sum for me. Please do not punish people like me for trying to follow the law to the fullest , correctly and quickly all the time. Not giving the refund would amount to Indian government encouraging procrastinators and people who do not follow the law and punish those who respect and abide law at all times.

I sincerely hope that the government will act on this immediately.
 
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NY website update - Refund of $155 - Surrender Certificate

Cases of renunciation / surrender of passport, completed up to 31 May, 2010 will not be re-opened and the amount of US$ 175/- will not be refunded.

It is also not needed to obtain a Surrender certificate now, for all those who acquired naturalization before June 1, 2010 :

Please be informed that there is no mandatory requirement for Persons of Indian Origin to carry their Surrender Certificates or cancelled Indian passports while travelling to India.
 
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Crazy but funny ... they have all the power to legally rob us and we can't really do much about it?

My case was Ack'ed on June 1st, and MO was en-cashed on June 4th, let me see what excuse they would provide for this scenario. Action only after I get OCI in hand though.
 
So I received my OCI yesterday, now here is the situation:

I sent my documents 2nd time in 3rd week of May along with the SC fee ($175)
They Ack'ed the documents on June 1st - The day fees changed to ($20)
They stamped my Indian Passport as "Canceled" on June 4th - That day the fees for this service (for me) should have been $20
They cashed the MO for $175 on June 4th - The day fees should be $20
They did not send me a refund of $155 along with my Passports/OCI.

Do I have a real chance on getting my money back?
How should I proceed? Email to OCI DC or somebody else?

Comments are really appreciated folks.
 
Doesn't look like we will be able to retrieve this money. The revised instructions from the Indian Government is are very simple - $20 or no SC requirement before June 1st and $175 after June 1st. Thats it.

What this means is all the CGIs are not going to show that excess money as fee/revenue collection to the Indian Government. I think this extra money is going in their bonus pool for this year.

Our options are not that great.. We don't have any practical recourse here (you do want future consular services.. don't you?).

I wish they could give us some sort of credit which we can use against any future consular service.
 
In order to receive my OCIs for myself and my wife, I paid a total of $850.00 for two surrender certificates that includes a penalty of $500.00 for two certificates on May 28, 2010. In a blink of an eye, within the span of two days, the Govt. of India flipped the rule, and like many of you I am feeling cheated and robbed. And it gets better with the CGINY that they will not give refunds. Oh, yes, you will. I am going to send them a regd. mail with return receipt requesting to refund the money within two week. If I do not hear from them, I am filing a claim in the small claims court.
The representatives of GOIs will have to cough up the money in the court.
A class action suit will give you a very small amount back. But I am for it if you all pursue it.

Thanks,

Jimmy
 
JimmyMalviya said:
In order to receive my OCIs for myself and my wife, I paid a total of $850.00 for two surrender certificates that includes a penalty of $500.00 for two certificates on May 28, 2010. In a blink of an eye, within the span of two days, the Govt. of India flipped the rule, and like many of you I am feeling cheated and robbed. And it gets better with the CGINY that they will not give refunds. Oh, yes, you will. I am going to send them a regd. mail with return receipt requesting to refund the money within two week. If I do not hear from them, I am filing a claim in the small claims court.
The representatives of GOIs will have to cough up the money in the court.
A class action suit will give you a very small amount back. But I am for it if you all pursue it.

Thanks,

Jimmy
Click to expand...

I paid $350 for me and my wife to get the SC as I was in a hurry to get the OCI cards. Looks like only NY consulate website is saying the fee cannot be refunded. I checked the SFO and Chicago consulate websites, they are saying that the issue is in discussion with Indian government and they will post on their website once a decision is made.
I sent the mass emails as provided by overkil and got only one response from foreign Jt Secretary, but no response from NY consulate guys. I don't know where to go from here, shall we wait for the response from Indian government? Shall we follow up with GOPIO or any other Indian associations? What is the process of going to small claims court?

JK
 
I have written several reminders. Some email forwards were there, but pretty much no response or response saying 'Out of luck' . I dont expect them to give the money back. Not so much that they need the money, but it involves inconvenience and additional work for the staff to process refunds. Why take trouble to refund and who cares what an ex-citizen thinks about India ?

In the last update from GOPIO, they have continued to request the govt, without being forceful.

SFO and Chicago will pull out the information from the website after a few months or update that there will be no refund. It is more than a month since the reduction of fee took place and if it didnt happen so far, i dont believe it will happen in future, unless some attorneys want to file a PIL .
 
overkill,
Who do you send your emails and I am not talking about sending emails to the huge list that you posted. I am talking about "At the embassy" where you sent your application for SC. Thanks...
 
overkill said:
The list includes the consulate general of NY, the deputy consulate general of NY and the ambassador as well. (cg@indiacgny.org;
dcg@indiacgny.org;
ambassadoroffice@indiagov.org; )
Click to expand...

Overkil,
You are right, It may not be the money, they don't want to create additionl work for giving refunds and they don't care about NRIs. At least, we can request them to come up with a plan for refunds after the summer rush is done for OCIs, PIOs and Visas. Maybe, we can tell them to charge an additional $20 for processing refund just in case if they need additional staff. Anyway, these are all my thoughts, we don't know what is going through these stupid consulate people's minds.
What are our chances if we go through the small claims court?

JK
 
jk1969 said:
Overkil,
You are right, It may not be the money, they don't want to create additionl work for giving refunds and they don't care about NRIs. At least, we can request them to come up with a plan for refunds after the summer rush is done for OCIs, PIOs and Visas. Maybe, we can tell them to charge an additional $20 for processing refund just in case if they need additional staff. Anyway, these are all my thoughts, we don't know what is going through these stupid consulate people's minds.
What are our chances if we go through the small claims court?

JK
Click to expand...

The court will have to be in India, not US.
 
nkm-oct23 said:
The court will have to be in India, not US.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree to you sir. We are doing business with an Indian entity that has its physical presence in USA and it has to abide by USA laws and if it makes any mistakes that are not considered legal by USA Legal system, than I would think that we as a US Citizens has all the rights to bring them to US courts...
 
sam012007 said:
I respectfully disagree to you sir. We are doing business with an Indian entity that has its physical presence in USA and it has to abide by USA laws and if it makes any mistakes that are not considered legal by USA Legal system, than I would think that we as a US Citizens has all the rights to bring them to US courts...
Click to expand...

I dont think we will have a standing in a court, as the indian government is free to dictate fees that it charges. Does not matter whether that fees was for 1 day or 3 weeks or 1 year. They charged fees what was prevailing when the application was processed.

Only through pressure from associations can anything be achieved.
 
overkill said:
I dont think we will have a standing in a court, as the indian government is free to dictate fees that it charges. Does not matter whether that fees was for 1 day or 3 weeks or 1 year. They charged fees what was prevailing when the application was processed.

Only through pressure from associations can anything be achieved.
Click to expand...

Other than GOPIO, what are the other associations we can approach?

JK
 
Reply from Jt.Sec - MEA

Dear Shri xxxx, your message was referred to the concerned Consulate:
They have indicated :
"We were only facilitating/expediting the process by holding camps on Saturday sacrificing our weekend. The rush of PIOs was unmanageable on workdays and hence this special effort on our part. It is now being construed as a diabolical move to collect fees as the enhanced rate – as if we knew that there would be reduction/wiaver coming so soon after.

We have conveyed the chagrin to Government of India and requested for permission for refund - but has not been found feasible.

With best wishes,

Gaitri I.Kumar

JS(AMS), MEA
 
sam012007 said:
I respectfully disagree to you sir. We are doing business with an Indian entity that has its physical presence in USA and it has to abide by USA laws and if it makes any mistakes that are not considered legal by USA Legal system, than I would think that we as a US Citizens has all the rights to bring them to US courts...
Click to expand...

Even though they are located in the US, foreign missions are considered foreign territory outside the purview of US law (criminal cases are excluded). US courts have no jurisdiction on actions of foreign consulates.
 
overkill said:
Dear Shri xxxx, your message was referred to the concerned Consulate:
They have indicated :
"We were only facilitating/expediting the process by holding camps on Saturday sacrificing our weekend. The rush of PIOs was unmanageable on workdays and hence this special effort on our part. It is now being construed as a diabolical move to collect fees as the enhanced rate – as if we knew that there would be reduction/wiaver coming so soon after.

We have conveyed the chagrin to Government of India and requested for permission for refund - but has not been found feasible.

With best wishes,

Gaitri I.Kumar

JS(AMS), MEA
Click to expand...

What does this mean? Are they telling us that they are not getting permission from Indian Government. They give replies in such a confusing language. I think all of them are just playing passing game, from one department to other department, nobody wants to take any responsibility. I got the following reply for one of my emails.

Dear Sir,
Pl contact jsf@nic.in
O/o JS(C&PG)
 
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