Real Reason for H1B workers condition!

T

techy2468

Registered Users (C)
it struck me today.....that even though i am 10 times better than my american colleagues....i am literally handicapped becaue of H1....i almost begged them to keep me in this assignment because there are no jobs for H1B (birmingham, AL)(since last 3 months there are none in .NET).

they are making it difficult with all the extra fee and bureacracy to sponsor H1 visa.......hence most of the small american companies dont sponsor H1 visa...

the point is that we become second class citizen, and americans/GC have a big advantage over us.......and this can be a planned thing by the lawmakers(they want the local people to have this undue advantage).....they want cheap labor for not necessarily "more skilled workforce".

i think this may be just my case because i am in a no-mans land......i think things may have been different if i was in a big technology company like oracle, MS, SUN etc..

any opinions??
 
My question to you is WHY ARE YOU HERE ? Remember that, You are not a slave. You are a free man, free to go anywhere including your home country. Please go there and lead a happy life. You really cannot expect anybody to open up everything for you as soon as you come in.
Would you do that if you were in your home country and somebody from the US came there to grab your job ? THE ANSWER IS NO. Still, US is the most open country in the world.
So, please shut up your trap and keep doing your work or get out.
 
blister....sorry i will just ignore u..
-------------------
back to my thoughts..

i think i may be totally off track.......becos the root cause of the problem is most small companies are scared/overwhelmed of the legal process required to sponsor a H1 visa......even now it cost just $4000 max including attorney fee.......but they will prefer to pay $20k more to a american or hire a contracter......rather than sponsor a visa...

in fact....if i was a usa lawmaker....i would make laws more worse than this....so that it will become more and more difficult to hire a H1 visa worker.....afterall i want my people, my family and my friends to be happy first....
 
Hi,

Well, I think that is typical of temporary visas. You do have restrinctions there to protect citizens. Just put yourself on their shoes:
Imagine you are a citizen, driving your Honda Accord V-6, nice wife with 3 kids, $2,500/month mortgage payments:do you want anyone in the world coming here to get jobs without restrictions, who could work for lower wages ? I know you are going to say that competition is great for employers, and it is, but the level of competition needs to be limited, otherwise it becomes unfair to citizens and permanent residents of the host country. There are studies out there against us showing that H1B's are making $13,000 less than permanent residents and citizens.

techy2468 said:
it struck me today.....that even though i am 10 times better than my american colleagues....i am literally handicapped becaue of H1....i almost begged them to keep me in this assignment because there are no jobs for H1B (birmingham, AL)(since last 3 months there are none in .NET).

they are making it difficult with all the extra fee and bureacracy to sponsor H1 visa.......hence most of the small american companies dont sponsor H1 visa...

the point is that we become second class citizen, and americans/GC have a big advantage over us.......and this can be a planned thing by the lawmakers(they want the local people to have this undue advantage).....they want cheap labor for not necessarily "more skilled workforce".

i think this may be just my case because i am in a no-mans land......i think things may have been different if i was in a big technology company like oracle, MS, SUN etc..

any opinions??
Click to expand...
 
I dont necessarily agree with the posters most of the time. But for one time, I concur. If you think you are superior enough than most of the folks, then you should start your own company or join a big corporation as you said. I have lived in Birmingham and I know it is tough. But hey, you traded this life for the luxury and the standard of living. Quit complaining !! I truly believe US is much better than most of the countries in the world with respect to immigration. They have allowed even the illegals to stay here and threw amnesty for legalization. You should go to Germany and see how they treat their immigrants.




blister1889 said:
My question to you is WHY ARE YOU HERE ? Remember that, You are not a slave. You are a free man, free to go anywhere including your home country. Please go there and lead a happy life. You really cannot expect anybody to open up everything for you as soon as you come in.
Would you do that if you were in your home country and somebody from the US came there to grab your job ? THE ANSWER IS NO. Still, US is the most open country in the world.
So, please shut up your trap and keep doing your work or get out.
Click to expand...
 
its true marlon.....i am myself reducing the asking salary to get a better working condition and more challenging work.....its frustrating to be trapped with mediocre people all around you....(this applies to my current state only....this is not a general statement)...

also i will reduce the salary if i cannot find anything after i get laid off....because i will need a job within the 60 day limit....(i hope this is right?).

i do agree that H1Bs can reduce the wage, and i agree with you that too much competiton is not good for people(too much stress...). if not for H1B visas avg americans IT guys may have been making $100k......being able to get off with 30 hr work/week...... rock star image....but they have competition from us...
 
And let me tell you something:
Americans are really picky about this now, more than ever before. Take a look at how organized immigration reduction groups are. These folks have websites all over, they call senators and fax them. Yes, we have been doing that as well, but we don't vote. They know that in this globalized world jobs are being outsourced and more foreigners are coming fast, therefore they are very sensitive to this issue. Look at how Americans put an end to the Dubai port deal, in spite of all goverment support. More recently, look at the illegal alien cause. The illegal alien crowd receives support from big corporations - those marches were well organized - and even though the bills seem to be fading away in the senate floor as we speak thanks to Americans.
For that reason I keep saying, honestly, in a way I feel sad that Senators don't come up with more reasonable numbers. By making a request to increase visa numbers 290,000/year + not counting spouses that makes people really nervous. I wonder why they just don't put more modest requests there, such as a temporary increase, or perhaps just not counting spouses. Then they persist to make the H1B numbers again in 165,000 on permanent basis. I know that employers are looking for more high tech people today, but again do you think that is going to motivate American college graduates to start studies in computer science ? I think the pro legal immigration folks should be more reasonable when writing these requests. God willing the bill will go through as is, but I am not sure...

techy2468 said:
its true marlon.....i am myself reducing the asking salary to get a better working condition and more challenging work.....its frustrating to be trapped with mediocre people all around you....(this applies to my current state only....this is not a general statement)...

also i will reduce the salary if i cannot find anything after i get laid off....because i will need a job within the 60 day limit....(i hope this is right?).

i do agree that H1Bs can reduce the wage, and i agree with you that too much competiton is not good for people(too much stress...). if not for H1B visas avg americans IT guys may have been making $100k......being able to get off with 30 hr work/week...... rock star image....but they have competition from us...
Click to expand...
 
I understand ..

techy,

I understand where you are coming from. It is natural to feel upset. The bottom line is that we (H1 workers) are here because we are needed by the US, on the flip side we are also here because we feel it is good for us. It is a co-dependent relationship. Extreme statements such as "H1Bs are being exploited like slaves" or "If H1Bs are not happy then they need to get out" over-simplefy this complex relationship. We would be naive to expect the same treatment as citizens and GC holders but we should not let our employers blantantly exploit us either. It is a rather delicate balance here. Most of us may never attain this balance ...

My personal issue is not with companies exploiting workers (although it is disgusting) but with the "lottery style" immigration system here. For me personally it would be better if the US passed laws that would prevent H1Bs to convert to GCs. I feel that the GC is currently being used as a dangling carrot to rope in more and more H1Bs and then we are thrown in this stupid immigration system where anything may happen. If H1Bs knew that they were here for the short-term they would act differently and behave differently to. I agree that the US immigration system is better than European countries but one cannot deflect the doublestandards of the US immigration system by simply pointing to a worse immigration system in another country.

The thing that upsets me most about the US immigration system is that it is marketed as an immigrant friendly system which treats people fairly. This is far from the truth. Atleast we know that Europeans are against immigrants and they make no excuses. They are honest about it. Over the past 5 years, the US has become increasingly anti immigrant but this country is having a hard time expressing this openly. On the outside they still want to seem really passionatae and forgiving but inside they are pushing anti immigrant policies. They have the right to do what they please but they need to be honest and let us immigrants know that things have changed and that we should not get our hopes high. The dangling carrot of the GC needs to pulled away. The US needs to come clean with its intentions and we immigrants need to get a reality check of exactly how immigrant friendly this country really is.

saras
 
saras....i am not upset for being in usa.....I still love it....but i was just thinking aloud the reasons for my frustrations.....since i cannot go to another city because my spouse has a job....and u know the great GC is in process :D

right now it has become clear that GC is not easy....and H1B are not loved over here....but few of my friends(avg programmer just like me) still are choosing to come here because of the money factor.....and as u know avg indian programmer is 10 times better than avg american programmer....
 
There were anti-immigrant immigrants even before 9/11. But over the past few years the republicans and democrats consolidated their bases based on anti-immigrant feelings. 7 Years back when i came to USA, I was looked different when i walked in downtown with my fellow colleagues. Now I see tons of immigrants from different culture are working in the same place. I remember that I have to teach what part of India Iam coming from 7 years ago to my fellow friends. But now, they know most of the cities in India.

America has changed over the past few years because of the immigrants coming here at an alarming pace. The media and the politics is adding fuel to the fire. Lou dobbs attacks immigrants with no base reasons. He needs viewership to keep his job and he gets his jobs through constant rants. The politicians want to get their piece of action by talking about outsourcing and other issues relating to immigration.

My point in this whole ranting is, Politics and the media divided the American people to be anti immigrants. But there are people who supports immigration too. If i want to blame on somebody for this mess, I would blame on the immigration system. It is broke and still broke. DOS and USCIS does not know what they are doing. There are bureacracies and they dont want to work together to solve the problems. Eg. Visa number issues. For god sake, they cant even calculate the visa numbers issued.

About 50% of 485 people who filed until July 2002, irrespective of their PDs were given their GCs in 2004. That is unfair. About 9 that is all but me in my company, who filed Group labor certification got their GCs. That is unfair. They even send visas of the 9/11 terrorists to their school. That is stupid and dangerous. This is how they work. Iam ready to wait for any number of years for the privilege if it is done fair. Common, the companies still sell approved labors and call them labor substitution. A friend of mine who went through that route, got his GC in two years, even after coming to US 4 years after me. That is unfair.

If they fix all these problems and let me know an approximate time to get my GC, I would gladly agree or I will take the highway. But it is the uncertainity of the procedures and the broken immigration system that makes me mad. Enough said.

saras76 said:
techy,

I understand where you are coming from. It is natural to feel upset. The bottom line is that we (H1 workers) are here because we are needed by the US, on the flip side we are also here because we feel it is good for us. It is a co-dependent relationship. Extreme statements such as "H1Bs are being exploited like slaves" or "If H1Bs are not happy then they need to get out" over-simplefy this complex relationship. We would be naive to expect the same treatment as citizens and GC holders but we should not let our employers blantantly exploit us either. It is a rather delicate balance here. Most of us may never attain this balance ...

My personal issue is not with companies exploiting workers (although it is disgusting) but with the "lottery style" immigration system here. For me personally it would be better if the US passed laws that would prevent H1Bs to convert to GCs. I feel that the GC is currently being used as a dangling carrot to rope in more and more H1Bs and then we are thrown in this stupid immigration system where anything may happen. If H1Bs knew that they were here for the short-term they would act differently and behave differently to. I agree that the US immigration system is better than European countries but one cannot deflect the doublestandards of the US immigration system by simply pointing to a worse immigration system in another country.

The thing that upsets me most about the US immigration system is that it is marketed as an immigrant friendly system which treats people fairly. This is far from the truth. Atleast we know that Europeans are against immigrants and they make no excuses. They are honest about it. Over the past 5 years, the US has become increasingly anti immigrant but this country is having a hard time expressing this openly. On the outside they still want to seem really passionatae and forgiving but inside they are pushing anti immigrant policies. They have the right to do what they please but they need to be honest and let us immigrants know that things have changed and that we should not get our hopes high. The dangling carrot of the GC needs to pulled away. The US needs to come clean with its intentions and we immigrants need to get a reality check of exactly how immigrant friendly this country really is.

saras
Click to expand...
 
Hi, I think you just explained the reason Americans are leaning towards immigration reduction sentiments:too many here. It concerns them. I don't blame them. I believe that immigration is a blessing to America, but too many immigrants is not necessarily good to this country. There is an optimal number this country should allow to get in, and I do not know what it is.
The way it is, I filed my LC on April 2002. I will be glad if it takes ONLY 2 more years to get GC completed. Yes, it is that bad.

nyte_crawler said:
There were anti-immigrant immigrants even before 9/11. But over the past few years the republicans and democrats consolidated their bases based on anti-immigrant feelings. 7 Years back when i came to USA, I was looked different when i walked in downtown with my fellow colleagues. Now I see tons of immigrants from different culture are working in the same place. I remember that I have to teach what part of India Iam coming from 7 years ago to my fellow friends. But now, they know most of the cities in India.

America has changed over the past few years because of the immigrants coming here at an alarming pace. The media and the politics is adding fuel to the fire. Lou dobbs attacks immigrants with no base reasons. He needs viewership to keep his job and he gets his jobs through constant rants. The politicians want to get their piece of action by talking about outsourcing and other issues relating to immigration.

My point in this whole ranting is, Politics and the media divided the American people to be anti immigrants. But there are people who supports immigration too. If i want to blame on somebody for this mess, I would blame on the immigration system. It is broke and still broke. DOS and USCIS does not know what they are doing. There are bureacracies and they dont want to work together to solve the problems. Eg. Visa number issues. For god sake, they cant even calculate the visa numbers issued.

About 50% of 485 people who filed until July 2002, irrespective of their PDs were given their GCs in 2004. That is unfair. About 9 that is all but me in my company, who filed Group labor certification got their GCs. That is unfair. They even send visas of the 9/11 terrorists to their school. That is stupid and dangerous. This is how they work. Iam ready to wait for any number of years for the privilege if it is done fair. Common, the companies still sell approved labors and call them labor substitution. A friend of mine who went through that route, got his GC in two years, even after coming to US 4 years after me. That is unfair.

If they fix all these problems and let me know an approximate time to get my GC, I would gladly agree or I will take the highway. But it is the uncertainity of the procedures and the broken immigration system that makes me mad. Enough said.
Click to expand...
 
I am completing my 6th year on h1b and entering 7th year. The whole idea of being in status on h1b (no gaps) has made me work additional hours, take additional responsibilities, tackle heated situations, take others' blames and also fall in scapegoat situations. There is definitely a lot of patience required in this system. I felt disheartened and broke about this system, I after 5 years on h1b I changed to consulting working on %tage because all my experience gave me confidence that I can demand a good hourly pay and have a consulting company deal with immigration.
This works out, atleast you are not exploited unless ur consulltant chooses to do without reason, offcourse if you don't have children and a working spouse. You can be doing great in the current system, no one takes your experience, you get to keep ur experience.

On the contrary, I agree it is kinda frustrating to deal with changing laws. The people sitting there making those laws need to better understand how people get affected with planning their life. But thats how things are here. I have noticed that there is absolutely no honesty in the system. I have seen very few people in the US who stand on their word, employers, managers, leasing agents, etc.... no one stands on their words. Lawyers, are the biggest conmen, they take a lot of money for nothing. Only a percentage of doctors do their duties right and do justice for the money they earn. Thats how this system is. No one wants to deal with complicated and complex issues. If you are a H1b who is complaining about something bad that is happening with you, you are treated as a complicated issue. Your problem is a waste of time in the system.

One must basically understand what being on h1b is. A lot of people I know changed companies in 6th year just like me because they figured out that with retrogression they will not allow themselves to get exploited, most companies fell back on their primitive thinking that once a person starts 5th year on h1b he is stuck to the company and anything can be done with the p4erson. Those days are going away, there is considerable amount of vent to the system by allowing people to change jobs when a labor is pending in BEC and get extensions while they file PERM. A lot of my local american friends who are very brialliant, have all resorted to consulting after gathering enough experience. The only difference we have against them is we give away a %age to the consulting company and Americans get to keep all the money.

In the last year I noticed that demand for people has increased, and I changed my client for a better hourly rate and my consulting company had no problems as it was me who found the project and not they. They willingly did my paperwork with the new client though old middle client created problems to them. So things are changing... lets hope things work out better in due course of time.
 
thats the way to go Chanduv23.........i am very much thinking in the same line.....work freely without being bonded because of GC process.......since if you work with a consulting company....u can switch clients and your GC will keep progressing.......and you get a deal depending on your capability....
 
thts what I would do if I get a chance. So many people changed their original profession and got into immigration law.
 
Techy, we can do things like what Americans do, open up a website and make a list of good consulting companies who do not exploit their employees, etc.... I am sure such kind of blogging will install some kind of fear in companies and they would want to be on a good list. Once we figure out such companies, it will be easy for people to switch jobs even on h1b without the fear of getting exploited using the GC card. Those who already have GC may have advantage over us based on the fact that they are free agents and do not have to worry about stamping, being in status etc.. but experience wise and knowledge wise the more we work the more we gain. If things workout in terms of GC then great, if not there are other ways to work it out.

Never givin to exploitation. Situations change, today a GC holder may start a consulting company and laugh at us, but it may not be like that tomorrow.

We must lobby for legal immigrants rights and make sure that rules do not keep changing and we must not stop our efforts against it, at the same time we must also not do it just because of the fact that employers use the "Green Card carrot" on us.
 
agreed but what will stop people from slurring good companies also........few months back on the yahoo techworkers group.....i saw people sluring my current employer....and they did not even give the reason.....i have been with this employer since 2 years....and i find them to be very professional....

its definitely a good idea....i will start a new thread...and lets discuss the pros and cons...
 
yes, over the internet, there is no control over the content. blogging has made it difficult for companies in recent times. as such companies are very sensitive about getting a bad name for any reason. we cannot control people's emotions.
There are ways to get things in place.

The retrogression issue is a real problem because of the inability for people to move to new jobs and the fear of getting exploited. The worst thing we can do is to keep quiet and crib. The best thing is we can and must do something.

The biggest thing that goes on in a h1b workers mind is "what kind of slavery is this".

We must fight retrogression at the same time look for options for h1b workers to change jobs so that they do not get exploited on GC carrots. The fear of getting exploited must go away. Companies must be worried about losing people and not h1b workers worried about losing jobs.

Once h1b workers lose the fear of getting exploited, automatically things fall in place. A lot of people get used to a city and company and lifestyle there and want to stay there only because of friends, temple, movies, restaurants etc... and when things change people become resistant to change. The fact is "Change is constant".

Lets start a seperate thread and try to address real problems of h1b workers and make sure that there is some relief from the retrogression impact.
 
marlon2006 said:
Hi,

Well, I think that is typical of temporary visas. You do have restrinctions there to protect citizens. Just put yourself on their shoes:
Imagine you are a citizen, driving your Honda Accord V-6, nice wife with 3 kids, $2,500/month mortgage payments:do you want anyone in the world coming here to get jobs without restrictions, who could work for lower wages ?
Click to expand...
The ironic thing is that it is those restrictions, supposedly to protect American workers, that allows employers to pay lower wages to H1B workers.

Certainly if I was a US citizen I would not want enormous numbers of H1B workers flooding into the labor force. But for the limited number who do arrive here, I am sensible enough to realize that it would be in my best interest for them to have full freedom to change jobs during their authorized stay so it would be more difficult to underpay them.
 
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