Racism...

It is so ridiculous and irritating that any time some intellectual discussion starts some people really have to mention that they Graduated from IIT, they are Brahamin , they come from Higher class, they come from city etc etc. Why is it necessary to bring that up? what does that tell anyone ? what does that prove ?
 
DryIce & WheresMahGreen

DryIce :

IIT may have helped you to get a degree to come over to the US to earn money. Really, it did not give you insight or enlightenment -- what a real education should have given to you. I am sure - you missed IIM.

I am CONFUSED, utterly CONFUSED by knowing what Indian Education System with esteemed technical institutes like IITs are producing every year. IITians who pass through the trainings in IIMs come to contact with the subjects like Sociology, Development Economics, Dynamics of Indian Planning etc transform .... transform into a complete professional ... more than a person who crams technical commands.

WheresMahGreen:

I agree that one has to be confident backed by intellect to fight workplace discrimination. No doubt.

Ideally, any reservation should be implemented based on Family Income with weighted consideration for Family expenditure. For the sake of ease of implementation, it has become caste-based. Demographic data definitely show a strong statistical correlation between a caste-based group and its average family income.

I don't ignore the fact that there is terrible politicalization as far as implementation of Indian caste-based reservation is concerned. But, reservation for a particular sector of society is not a fact only with India - but it is followed for certain period of time during the growth phase of any economy.

Anyway, RICHES - based discrimination is the worst , closely followed by COLOR- based discrimination.
 
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Indiatoday

I had to mention that because, confu123 made a personal comment on my personality. So, I have to tell certain personal achievements and my cadre. Until then I did not mention that I am an IITan. Even now, I did not tell my caste or religion. I told that I am an IITan. Yes I am - I tell that because, I achieved it through several sleepless nights spent on studying and studying. And I consider getting into IIT is tougher than most of Foreign Universities. (Foreign to India).

I was modest and expressing my views as a third person. However, those who do not know the ethics of a constructive discussion started some personal indictments. That is why. Just go through the thread and you will find out. Donot just decide by looking at one posting.

pravin204


Some seats are reserved for SC/ST or whoever, but the criteria is different. The seats are reserved, but what I am saying is, the number of votes. If out of two contestants, one is an SC/ST/BC, then the one who is "branded" as backward class, should win, even if the number of votes he gets is less.

A SC/ST got 5 marks and passed MBBS - I do not remember the year in which this happened. BUt this was a great news and everyone else remebers it.

Look if you want to bring up a certain category of people, "You should teach them fishing - Not give them fish". By teaching them to fish you are enpowering them to become more intelectuals, by giving them fish, you are making them slaves. This is the political game played by politicians for votes. I do not see any other motive in this type of law implementation.

Votes are not equated to Marks because, in the former case, it is the politicians that are getting affected. In the later, it is the Janata that is getting affected.
 
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Confu

I'm glad you agree with me on the fact the Indian caste-based reservation system is a not at its intended place currently. Unless I am terribly wrong, I gather you graduated from IIM? Well, regardless, I am sure you'd appreciate the fact that often statistics about India are one step from being a joke. I would re-phrase your statement slightly to read: "Demographic data definitely show a strong statistical correlation between a caste-based group and its REPORTED average family income."

When I was in college, I got to witness some of the "Backward" and "Most Backward" caste people so rich that it was obscene! I realized then that the majority of those people aspiring higher education do not actually deserve such reservations. However, there are several candidates that deserve every help a government can provide to further their cause. There were people to whom I've bowed in admiration of their hardwork and accomplishments in life under trying circumstances. I will continue to admire such people and do my best to help them.


Originally posted by confu123
WheresMahGreen:

I agree that one has to be confident backed by intellect to fight workplace discrimination. No doubt.

Ideally, any reservation should be implemented based on Family Income with weighted consideration for Family expenditure. For the sake of ease of implementation, it has become caste-based. Demographic data definitely show a strong statistical correlation between a caste-based group and its average family income.

I don't ignore the fact that there is terrible politicalization as far as implementation of Indian caste-based reservation is concerned. But, reservation for a particular sector of society is not a fact only with India - but it is followed for certain period of time during the growth phase of any economy.

Anyway, RICHES - based discrimination is the worst , closely followed by COLOR- based discrimination.
Click to expand...
 
This is the freacking problem with Indians, The IIT's, IIM's, IAS's, IPS's, they are freacking busy showing their intellectual power by how many books they have read and how much they can talk. In reality nothing ever changes on ground. We blame politics for all this, Does this mean that illitrate politicians are much more stronger than this so called intellectual class ? How come ?

There is simple solution to all these problems and we don't need politicians to do anything , it is all whithin our control. Government is not forcing anyone to have 2 or 3 kids.

Imagine India's population @ 70 Million. Every men and women will have Job (unlike at present 90 % of the women sit home feeding hot chappati to their husbands and sending children to school), every student will have summer and part time job if they wanted to earn some money. Entire population of the country will be busy in doing something, no time for casteisum, racisum and other bullshit things, no need for reservation and caste based politics as every one isl already employed and making decent living. No one will be so desperate in immigrating to USA, less corruption, better control and regulation of anything, More respect across the board.....etc etc.

IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, IT HAS BEEN ALWAYS THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BROUGHT THE CHANGE, NOT THE POLITICANS OR ANYONE ELSE, THEY WILL BE THE FIRST ONES TO TAKE THE CREDIT THOUGH, BUT WHO CARES WHO GET THE CREDIT.

First things first, We don't need to make every situation sound like very complicated, We need will, Will to change and not give endless statistics and theory. JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN !!!!!
 
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Wherever Indians go they fall pray to the same bais. be it be uganda, briton or south africa. Indians never think collectively as a society and they always think for themselves. If they are rich and happy it is becuase of them , and if they are poor and not happy then blame it on the country or the society. Until Indians start working collectively, and behave as a people with social responcibilties the story will continue.

I am in this country for more than 4 years and was subjected to racial slur sometimes. Wherever I thought appropriate I fought back in a non-controversial way and soemtimes just ignored it. As some people said they might have been discriminated in India but it does not feel as bad as like in USA. USA is like a dream for many of us. It is like our dreams shattered.

So be careful and watchful in what you do. I always fight racial slur and bullying to the maximum possible extension with out getting in to trouble. I never meekly surrendered. Because if I do that, The person who did the slur will get emboldened and will definitely try it on another indian. ANalyze the patterns of racial slur and if possible give it in the same token in a non-controversial way and non-violent way. The justice system is great in USA as in INDIA. You will definitrly get the justice.

The worst part is economy going down and sept 11th happened at the same time. This has become a shot in the arm for the racists. They are trying to mould public opnion against immigrants by playing these events.

But they are ignoring the facts that they themselves were immigrant families and the success of this country has a major share of immigrants.
 
" JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN !!!!! "

IndiaToday --

You are talking like an Indian Politician -- JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN !!!!!

You left your country after getting subsidized education at tax-payers' money - to earn $ .... now you are shouting JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN !!!!!

Hey, politicans are bad, but they did not escape like you ...

Who will bell the cat ... would you ?
 
what kinda stupid people our IIT's and IIM's produce ? We spend so much money on them and in return what we get is a book worm !! By leaving country I have created one more Job in India and I am sending valuable foreign exchange back to India and I my self will observe the strict family planning regardless of whether I live in India or I live it here, Regardless of whether you will bell the cat or not, I have long ago decided to bell the cat for myself.

Again don't waste your time and my time in merely discussing things. JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN. You bell the cat for yourself, I will bell the cat for myself and pretty soon things will fall in line. ALSO don't waste your time in blaming Politicians, you won't gain anything even after 1 million years.

You are stupid enought to blame everything on politicians, read my message again, I have specifically pointed out that we don't need politicians to MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

Last but not least, Politicians Don't say JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN, they will blame everything on others, they will give you 100 reasons for not doing anything.

I have a very strong message for you, if you are kinda of person who will always wait for someone to bell the cat first, even if it is for a very good reson, I would say DON'T MAKE IT HAPPEN !!! and live the shitty life that you have been living.
 
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Indian politicians are the most abused by the people in the country. These people talk as if they are paying billions of dollars as tax and politicians are eating it. Not even 25% of the population pays taxes. How many of you paid taxes.
 
Mahi,

You are correct ! it has become a fashion just to blame everything on politicians. Our responsibilty is over once we blame it ALL on politicians. even if you get a headache it's their fault.
I am very much annoyed to know that IIT and IIM crowd who is suppose to be intellectually far better compare to average Indian is also blamming everything on politicians. Who are the politicians ? One MP says another MP is politican, one MLA will say another MP is politician. How about our responsibilty ? Population control should have been on every Indians mind not only today but should have been there since 25 yrs ago. Instead we are presenting vague argument like who will bell the Cat first ?

When somebody cannot define some thing properly, when you don't want to get to the bottom of some problem , our responsibilty seems to end by blaming it on politicians. EVEN POLITICIANS ARE SO SMART THESE DAYS , THEY ALSO BLAME IT ON POLITICIANS...........by the way I want to find out who these politicians are ? where do they live ? what they eat ?
 
Stop this nonsence

We are here to discuss dicsrimination.
Instead of fighting among us, lets talk about incidences and likely solution to them.
 
Lierji sorry Khoteji

Our goal should be much higher than discussing discremination, raceisum and things like that.

Our goal should be to STOP ALL THESE THINGS EVEN BEFORE THEY BEGIN. WE DON'T WANT TO BE ALWAYS DISCUSSING in the AFTERMATH of something. To extinguish fire one must spary fire extingusher at the bottom of the fire and not anywhere else.

It is important to discuss how we can tackle AND respond to discremination now, it is even more important to discuss and take actions now such that future generation of Indians will not have to discuss these things over and over again. I am more interested in the later and that is what I was/will be discussing.
 
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Taxes and Reservations

I don't know about anybody else, but me and my family has always paid taxes. It is very tough, even in India to NOT to pay taxes if you are salaried. There maybe some ways to reduce taxes, but that is how far it goes. However, I would agree that a large majority of people do not pay taxes. But don't we know that PAYING TAXES IN INDIA MEANS FILLING POLITICIANS POCKETS???

Taxes are paid for everyone's welfare, not for a HANDFULL of CORRUPT PEOPLE, identified as politicians, who care more about filling their deep pockets than anything else.

Although, there might be exceptions, but I they are rare.

And as for Reservations:
I don't understand how can the third generation can still be backward?? Maybe they don't want to be forward !!! :(

Besides, geting into a Job because of reservation is still tolerable, but moving UP a position defenitely NOT OK.

Also wakeup guys, when has a politician acted on himself without consulting the bureaucrats? It is them who run the government and NOT really politicians. We always forget this layer and THIS IS WHERE THE RESERVATIONS IS !!!!! :(
 
Atlast

someone is able to see the problem. The problem is that "We do not want to be forward".

I feel that the education system has to make sure that they convey the right message. They should aim at transforming the basic thinking of the people, directing it towards, secularism, tolerance and equality and self upliftment and social service.

We can make laws, implement them and punish the violators. However, if the basic human thinking does not transform, there will not be a change in generations to come.

If someone is backward, then give them a MANDATORY opportunity once. Make it clear that after that opportunity they and their generation will be considered forward Class.

In this way we can eliminate the chain reaction of producing more and more backward class peple. By birth I believe, everyone has equal intellectual capability. However, the environment in which they are brought up, will quickly start acting on them. If someone is not sent to school and instead is sent to a cinema theatre to sell tickets in black market, who can save him/her.

Care has to be taken right there. Put them in a school which teaches them some self respect and the ability and need to achieve certain things. Make it mandatory for all private schools to teach atleast a small percentage of "economically backward" class children in their area, free of cost. Do everything you can, inorder to educate all the children in the right direction. "REMOVE THE WORD CASE/RELIGION FROM ALL TYPES OF APPLICATION FORMS / OR ANY OTHER FORMS".

Automatically then in the generations to come, we will forget about the caste systems etc. However, if an individual expresses his racist nature, or any discriminatory inclinations, we just cannot waste our time with this one guy. He will just be a leaf in the wind, who will with time fly off without any significance.

When you want to transform a generation, you should always try to uplift the children. Because, the elder's habits and thinking die hard. Then in future, we will have a good set of politicians, good set of Armed forces, good set of Industrial Personnel - together they can be Number One.

I do not ave any other Ideas on racism or secularism. I do not care if anyone has it or talks about it. I will continue to ignore those with such inclinations. One day, they will notice that the world cares a hoot about thier ideas and keep quiet.
 
DryIce,

Agree with you.

I am a very strong believer in the fact that primary/basic education must be a fundamental constituitional right/duty of every soul born in our country.

I personally am very excited to contribute anything possible from my side should it be made mandatory upon every citizen to help raise fund for creating primary schools in each and every village of India.

Unless, a person is made to learn to raise his/her own living, no amount of charity, free rationing is going to help uplift masses.

And learning would come only if one is letter-read and knows basic civic/social senses.

My spare but permanent thoughts........................
 
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