Question for gurus and UN on leaving employer after getting GC

[GCdreamer2006]

Hi there,

I read numerous posts on reasons one should not leave employer just after getting GC.

In my case I have been working for same employer for 5+ years.
Anyone call tell me whether it should be OK leaving employer 3 months after receiving GC ?

Jesus, isn't 5+ with same old employer enough to prove this is a legitimate job offer ?!

 

[AJVM]

I don't think it should be any problem

I do not see any problem, as I see it, if it was not OK to change employer, AC21 wouldn't have any reason to exist, I would ask my attorney, just to double-check.

 

[Apollo_13]

Since GC is meant for future job offer, USCIS expects one to show a real intent to work after getting GC. Nothing more nothing less..

How to show intent to work beyond GC approval? This area has been left out by USCIS in dark, there is no definite minimum period one should stay with the GC sponsored employer...

People have different answer for this. Some say stay at least 3 months, some say may be 6 months, some say at least a yr......Some people may ask "When AC21 allows us to switch employer, why not do the same after getting GC?"

If you feel you have an answer that would convince USCIS at the time of citizenship(if at all they ask you why did you leave so early), then you may quit your employer any time you want....

I know my posting wouldn't help you , still tried...

 

[vic_m]

Jesus, isn't 5+ with same old employer enough to prove this is a legitimate job offer ?!

I feel your pain, but, I guess, what really matters for them is 30-60-90 rule.
Although Sheela Murthy said a while back that there was no hard rule, 1 year could be considered pretty safe.

 

[gc_retrogress]

Citizenship process could be hindered

If you leave your employer before 1 year, I have heard it will be difficult in getting US Citizenship.

 

[saras76]

Citizenship

Hi there,

I read numerous posts on reasons one should not leave employer just after getting GC.

In my case I have been working for same employer for 5+ years.
Anyone call tell me whether it should be OK leaving employer 3 months after receiving GC ?

Jesus, isn't 5+ with same old employer enough to prove this is a legitimate job offer ?!

GCdreamer2006,

From what I have heard leaving your employer immediately after getting your GC "may" lead to some problems during citizenship but I am not totally convinced of this. What if you are let go from your company within a year of getting your GC? People are eligible for citizenship after 4-5 years of being PRs so how will the USCIS go back 4-5 years to verify the time you left the company that sponsored your GC? How can they prove that you left them and that you were not let go? I personally know people who quit within 6-7 months of getting their GCs and they could not be happier. In the end its a peronsal choice with the knowledge that there "may" be "some" issues down the road. I personally plan on quitting within 6 months of getting my GC. I will figure out the citizenship thing when it comes up. I am tired of living in fear of these stupid processes.

regards,

saras

 

[desi3933]

Hi there,

I read numerous posts on reasons one should not leave employer just after getting GC.

One should have intent to work for GC employer at the time of filing I-485. Nothing else is clearly defined.

In my case I have been working for same employer for 5+ years.
Anyone call tell me whether it should be OK leaving employer 3 months after receiving GC ?

Time before getting GC does not matter.

Jesus, isn't 5+ with same old employer enough to prove this is a legitimate job offer ?!

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and this ain't legal advice, its just my opinion.
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[GCdreamer2006]

1 year ????!!! Thanks. I won't be around wasting my life for one more year. That's for sure. There is nothing written in the GC paper saying that. If USCIS ever questions that, I would hire a lawyer and see where they stipulated that I didn't wait X number of months to get GC.

Personally I think all this is 0.001% chances of having any type of problems. I think USCIS doesn't care at all.

But again, thanks for posting. I appreciate your comments on this. I will stick to the only concrete rule so far; the 30-60-90. I put my resume out there on the 90th day and let it roll.

I feel your pain, but, I guess, what really matters for them is 30-60-90 rule.
Although Sheela Murthy said a while back that there was no hard rule, 1 year could be considered pretty safe.

 

[puerthoughts]

Actually USCIS recommeneds a 6 month minimum stay after getting the GC from one employer. Now i do not say that they have send me a letter personally telling this, but by law USCIS will open an investigation if you left the employer within 6 months of getting GC. They call it "Auditing the benefit granted". If you got a benefit (your GC) from your employer USCIS wants to make sure that there was not an arrangement behind this applied benefit. Another thing they look for is where you went once you left your employer. That means that if you left your employer just after 4-5 months of getting a GC and opened a hotel business, they might have some questions for you. At last you are getting your GC based on your skills and your employer told the USCIS that you will work in this field for him if you are granted a GC.

On other note, if you left your employer just after 6 months and got a job in Microsoft (I consider it better than my current employer) then i do not think that your case will be audited. So it is a common sense question rather than a hardfix line of 6 months.

I hope this helps. Please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[tusharvk]

The intent behind EB GC is that the employer has a permanent job for the employee that the latter will take after getting the GC.
From employer's perspective, it is the business conditions dictate the permanent nature of this job. From the employee's perspective, market conditions and salary will determine how long the employee plans to stick with the employer.
If the intent is to fire the employee right after getting the GC, it could land the employer in serious trouble. If the intent on part of the employee is to leave the job right after getting the GC, the employee could face problems later on and not just with the citizenship.
I think the interview during the adjudication process prior to issuing the GC should pretty much prove the intent on part of the employee.

Actually USCIS recommeneds a 6 month minimum stay after getting the GC from one employer. Now i do not say that they have send me a letter personally telling this, but by law USCIS will open an investigation if you left the employer within 6 months of getting GC. They call it "Auditing the benefit granted". If you got a benefit (your GC) from your employer USCIS wants to make sure that there was not an arrangement behind this applied benefit. Another thing they look for is where you went once you left your employer. That means that if you left your employer just after 4-5 months of getting a GC and opened a hotel business, they might have some questions for you. At last you are getting your GC based on your skills and your employer told the USCIS that you will work in this field for him if you are granted a GC.

On other note, if you left your employer just after 6 months and got a job in Microsoft (I consider it better than my current employer) then i do not think that your case will be audited. So it is a common sense question rather than a hardfix line of 6 months.

I hope this helps. Please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[desi3933]

Actually USCIS recommeneds a 6 month minimum stay after getting the GC from one employer.

Really? Any reference or article?

Now i do not say that they have send me a letter personally telling this, but
by law USCIS will open an investigation if you left the employer within 6 months of getting GC.

Could you please show us any Reference to this? AFAIK, this is incorerct. Time Period is NOT specified anywhere.

They call it "Auditing the benefit granted". If you got a benefit (your GC) from your employer USCIS wants to make sure that there was not an arrangement behind this applied benefit. Another thing they look for is where you went once you left your employer. That means that if you left your employer just after 4-5 months of getting a GC and opened a hotel business, they might have some questions for you. At last you are getting your GC based on your skills and your employer told the USCIS that you will work in this field for him if you are granted a GC.

Permanent Employment does NOT mean forever.

On other note, if you left your employer just after 6 months and got a job in Microsoft (I consider it better than my current employer) then i do not think that your case will be audited. So it is a common sense question rather than a hardfix line of 6 months.

I hope this helps. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and this ain't legal advice, it is just my opinion.
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[desi3933]

The intent behind EB GC is that the employer has a permanent job for the employee that the latter will take after getting the GC.
From employer's perspective, it is the business conditions dictate the permanent nature of this job. From the employee's perspective, market conditions and salary will determine how long the employee plans to stick with the employer.

If the intent is to fire the employee right after getting the GC, it could land the employer in serious trouble.

Employer can fire employee any time. It does not matter, before OR after GC. There are so many posts where employees have been fired during I-140/I-485 stage. Of course many times they have chosen to revoke I-140 as well.

If the intent on part of the employee is to leave the job right after getting the GC, the employee could face problems later on and not just with the citizenship.

I think the interview during the adjudication process prior to issuing the GC should pretty much prove the intent on part of the employee.
In most EB cases, the interview is waived. The applicant signature on I-485 application with attached I-140 reflects the intent right there. It is another matter that in most EB related GC cases done by consulting companies, the "intent" of employee is very clear. Once GC is approved, employee will "join" the client. In some cases, the consulting companies have "understanding" with the client.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and this ain't legal advice, it is just my opinion.
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[GCdreamer2006]

I thought so too. I see all the time employees getting fired based on business needs; people get fired at the most odd stages, why not getting fired one week after getting GC ? I personally called USCIS a while back (although I can't fully trust the judgement of USCIS representatives there taking the phone calls) and I asked whether there is such law or regulation that stipulates how long an employee should remain with sponsoring employer. The answer was, no there isn't. If USCIS wanted people to remain there for X amount of months, how come they don't even mention that themselves ?

From what I was told, I thought it is a nuance that one should remain with sponsoring employer for 6 months. If I am wrong, please post the link or rule which states that.

Is there any known case of people who got into trouble upon quitting immediately ? Please let us know whether there is concrete evidence against this. The only case I know was one which triggered the 30-60-90 rule. I may have a job offer coming in the next 4 months I need to know this.

Thanks again for your opinions.

 

[GCInThisLife]

What is 30-60-90 rule?

I thought so too. I see all the time employees getting fired based on business needs; people get fired at the most odd stages, why not getting fired one week after getting GC ? I personally called USCIS a while back (although I can't fully trust the judgement of USCIS representatives there taking the phone calls) and I asked whether there is such law or regulation that stipulates how long an employee should remain with sponsoring employer. The answer was, no there isn't. If USCIS wanted people to remain there for X amount of months, how come they don't even mention that themselves ?

From what I was told, I thought it is a nuance that one should remain with sponsoring employer for 6 months. If I am wrong, please post the link or rule which states that.

Is there any known case of people who got into trouble upon quitting immediately ? Please let us know whether there is concrete evidence against this. The only case I know was one which triggered the 30-60-90 rule. I may have a job offer coming in the next 4 months I need to know this.

Thanks again for your opinions.

 

[garam.chadi]

Many years back; i think it was 10 years ago; there was a rule that stated one had to be with the greencard sponsorer for two years after the person got the greencard.
This rule got changed and there is no such rule now.

Well,since the processing is so much delayed .. the rule make little sense now. This whole thing is so funny now.. think about an employer who is trying to tell USCIS .. I need this guy to work for me ... after he gets green card .. since the guy is from India .. I am prepared to wait for 6 years .. for him to get a GC.

 

[sfmars]

Yes, but problem in lobbying retrogression is that employer can't say it is being harmed because person can work on non immigrant visas.

It would be a totally different situation if the employers could only get the people into USA by getting them a greencard. If they got rid of temporary work visas; there would be a great increase in employment base immigrant visas.

This is how the nurses won out. They have very difficult time being on a non immigrant work visas. The only way employers can get them into usa is by getting them a greencard.

Nurse argument isn't available to employers who can people here on a non immigrant visa to fill the void while they wait for immigrant visas.

I do not see a problem for nurse to get H1 visa. It is simply huge shortage of them and strong lobby of hospitals. US does not have enough classes in colleges to prepare nurses.

 

[tusharvk]

I would then say that the ability to continuously extend h1b beyond 6-yr has harmed the case for increasing quota for EB GCs.

Yes, but problem in lobbying retrogression is that employer can't say it is being harmed because person can work on non immigrant visas.

It would be a totally different situation if the employers could only get the people into USA by getting them a greencard. If they got rid of temporary work visas; there would be a great increase in employment base immigrant visas.

 

[sfmars]

I would then say that the ability to continuously extend h1b beyond 6-yr has harmed the case for increasing quota for EB GCs.

The problem is not in the ability to continuously extend h1b beyond 6-yr, which was accepted 4 years ago (final interpretation).

The problem is that EB quota 140K was approved more than 10 years ago, at that period of time that was more than enough. But today the situation is changed.

 

[eric1977]

What if I plan to switch job before I get GC by using AC21, after I get an offer and set a start date with new employer (this is totally legal based on AC21 rule), but my GC is approved before the start date of new employer?
Would this be a problem, assuming the new job is in same or similar field as old job?
Actually, I have got offers from two big IT companies, and I am planning to leave the current company right after (maybe one or two months depending how long the offer can be extended) I get my GC. In case in the future I will be questioned about why I switch job so quick after the GC, I want to throw out this theory that I in fact want to switch job by using AC21, somehow, the GC is approved before I join the new company.
UN: Could you comment on this? Very appreciate.

Many years back; i think it was 10 years ago; there was a rule that stated one had to be with the greencard sponsorer for two years after the person got the greencard.

This rule got changed and there is no such rule now.


The clear guidance (or as clear as one can get with uscis) is that at the time of filing 140 and 485 beneficiary and company both have to have the intent of meeting their immigration obligations. The employee can change that "intent" once 485 has been pending/unadjudicated for more then 180 days.

Note: The situation by their memos/interpretations are covered only in the context of someone changing their job.

Since there is no clear guidance; people push thier lawyers or others to come up with some type of answer.

From a very common sense point of view, if you are with your sponsor once greencard gets approved and you leave shortly thereafter, it would be difficult for you to prove that you had intent to stay with them. If a person is a high skilled worker; it should take a person a couple of months at least to start looking for a job, interviewing, accepting the offer and then ultimately joining. If a person switches too early then it would be difficult for you to prove that you weren't thinking of joining a new company before and at the time you got the greencard approved.

If challenged; it would make it even worse if you just go and join the vendor or client whom you have been working with. That position wouldn't just become available to you once the greencard got approved. That situation should have existed all along.

I've seen some people's reasons that the sponsor had no project for them and they had to quit shortly after getting greencard. If one is challenged on this then you better have had no bench time before greencard got approved; because it would invariably lead one to ask why you didn't quit at that time.

The rules are much more clear before the greencard gets approved rather then after the greencard gets approved.

If you are working at a greencard factory; everytime they file an H-1b or I-140; it gives uscis a chance to go through their immigration history. I did see one company which got an RFE where the number of 140's filed over the years was greater then their current headcount. In that RFE; uscis asked for a list of all h-1b/L-1 and people who received greencards through the company where they were. Obviously, USCIS was trying to dig further to see if there was any type of fraud, etc.

My personal feeling is the 30,60,90 day rule. This is as close as you are going to get in assessing intent. 90 days and one should be safe. However, people who used ac21 or left too early are just now coming up for citizenship. In the coming months/years we will see how uscis will handle the situation.

Most of the peple I know don't want to take any chances before the greencard gets approved but then all of a sudden become risk takers after the greencard gets approved. Doesn't make sense to me since the rules are more clear before greencard gets approved rather then after.

 

[sfmars]

If you go back through visa bulletins from 1995; you will see that just about every year had some months of retrogression for certain countries.

Just since June 2001 until January 2005 all the dates were current. People got a little spoiled.

What are you talking about ?

Look for example http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/visa_bulletin/9512bulletin.html
Do you call EB3 Plippines as serios retrogression issue at the beginning of 1996 FY? Or may be EB other workers make big difference ?

Yes there was some retro at the beginning of each FY but by the end of it almost each country was current.

Before only 50K H1B was allowed, but starting from 2000 almost 200K and only recently has changed (decreased). 245i is another problems with LC substitution.

as you know today EB3 ROW is retrogressed.

It is rediculous when some people call H1 extension beyond 6year as the problem for retro. The same I can say that unlimited extension of EAD causes even bigger problem for people who wants to get green card faster.