Question about answering 'Time outside of US' section in preparing N-400 form

T

tariqahsan

New Member
Hello,

I am currently filling out the N-400 form for US naturalization for me and my wife. In this form on the section - 'Part 7. Time Outside of United States' we are asked to list all the travels we have made in the last 5 years outside of USA (including Mexico and Canada). Now we have made several visits to Canada where my in-laws live and do not remember even the correct number of visits we have made not to mention the exact date. My wife once visited Europe and gone back home in this 5 year period. The dates for that trip we can get from her passport. So, I don't know what should I put filling out this particular section with our trips to Canada.
Anyone know from their experience how I can go about answering this question on the form?
Thanks a lot in advance.

- Tariq
 
Our solution (after initially downloading the N-400 and figuring out we had no idea (we are Canadian and lived about a 5 hour drive away)) was to wait 3 yrs until we had a good record for 5 years.

Accuracy is more important than precision (i.e. if you say 4 or 5 trips a year, never more than 9 days, and that is right, then you are telling the truth).

Precision starts to matter a lot if you are near the "continuous residence" and "physical presence" limits. If you aren't, I'd guess that approximations *might* work (approximations certainly worked for us for the period preceding the 5 years we had good information) (my wife and I naturalized last year).
 
Unfortunatelly, there is no magic solution. You have to re-create these trips to the best of your knowledge and in accordance with the question. Certainly, you need to figure out the information that you are comfortable with claiming/presenting while being sworn under the oath.

The burden of proof is upon you, not USCIS. You need to be creative and spend some time re-collecting all the information and trips. Use credit bank/credit card statements, airline tickets, FF statements, emails....Anyting you can think of.....No easy way out....

Keep in mind that question asks for not only in the last 5 yrs, but ALL trips since you became Permanent Resident.
 
Right, but, after reading the guide and the instructions and the form (over and over) we figured that precision was more important for the immediate 5 years.

There are three questions in that section:

  1. How many total days did you spend outside of the United States during the past five years?
  2. How many trips of 24 hours or more have you taken outside of the United States during the past five years?
  3. List below all the trips of 24 hours or more that you have taken outside of the United States since becoming a Lawful Permanent Resident. Begin with your most recent trip. If you need more space, use a separate sheet(s) of paper.

We figured the first two demanded precision, and the third one allowed some slop. In particular, we listed all of our travel on an attached page (rather than just what didn't fit on the form). This allowed us to be a little more free form. We made sure to include as much information as we could (in some ways more than what was demanded).

So we made sure we had complete information about the immediate 5 years. Beyond that, the information was much less precise. However, we were very far from the "continuous residence" and "physical presence" limits.

It worked. We both breezed through our interviews.
 
Flydog said:
Right, but, after reading the guide and the instructions and the form (over and over) we figured that precision was more important for the immediate 5 years.

There are three questions in that section:

  1. How many total days did you spend outside of the United States during the past five years?
  2. How many trips of 24 hours or more have you taken outside of the United States during the past five years?
  3. List below all the trips of 24 hours or more that you have taken outside of the United States since becoming a Lawful Permanent Resident. Begin with your most recent trip. If you need more space, use a separate sheet(s) of paper.

We figured the first two demanded precision, and the third one allowed some slop. In particular, we listed all of our travel on an attached page (rather than just what didn't fit on the form). This allowed us to be a little more free form. We made sure to include as much information as we could (in some ways more than what was demanded).

So we made sure we had complete information about the immediate 5 years. Beyond that, the information was much less precise. However, we were very far from the "continuous residence" and "physical presence" limits.

It worked. We both breezed through our interviews.
Click to expand...

This is very useful practical suggestion. Thanks for posting!!! Good points.

One thing to add....

However, I would disagree with you that precision is more important for the last 5 years than say the last 10 years. Instructions and documents DO NOT say such a thing and your connection to these interpretations are loose, practical and convinient.

Sure....this is fine......as long as you are comfortable with it and can raise your right hand and say this is the truth under the oath and to the "best of your knowledge".

Your "formula" worked for you, because your case was most probably "plain vanilla" and trips were highly immaterial and your presentation was clear and persuasive. It migth not apply or work for somebody else.....for a number of reasons.

For example, some one had long absences from US past 5 years limit. USCIS might want to know and investigate if that person had abandoned permanent residency.

I would not go to interview or fill an application with an attitude of lame applicant, but would do all humanly possible to get the best travel data. "Don't know" (from the top of your head) is not an answer.

Bottom line - (1) it all depends on your particular case and (2) it is what your can claim to be the best information to your sincere knowledge and effort.

My 2c....

P.S.: I'm not a lawyer or an immigration expert. I'm just an ordinary guy. You are soley responsbile for your actions.
 
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'Time outside of US' section in preparing N-400 form

Hi,
Are you and your wife both permanent residents here holding Indian Passports? I have visited Canada in the recent years and I am sure they stamp the day of entry on your passport.If you do not have stamps on passports then i would recommend that you contact the department of Border patrol and customs enforcement to see whether they could provide your date of arrivals.Sounds easy, but try itv out first youeslf, if not call youe elected representatives offices for help.As Pointed out by other experts on this forum "failing to recall may not be considered by USCIS as a good attribute for them to approve your application". Good Luck.
 
If you are US permanent residents (w/ green cards) and hold Indian passports, Canadian border authorities do not stamp your passport. Most times they do not even ask for a passport when you drive across the border. If you fly, they look at your passport, but don't stamp it if you have a GC.

In case they don't stamp your passport or if they don't even ask for it, they won't have any shareable record of your entry/exit from Canada. The only record they might have saved is a photo of your vehicle's license plate or any face-photographs they maye take (automated/hidden) as you cross the border, which they will not share with you for sure!

The issue could be if someone stayed in Canada for say, a year. Thus, the person has violated USCIS regs. Canadian border folks may not have records, but if this person stayed in Canada for such a long time, he/she must have entered some sort of financial transcations there. These things if hidden/not reported could come back to haunt a person if they are detected by USCIS. Yeah, everyone should report stuff honestly. If there are genuine, compelling circumstances, and if a person has made an honest attempt to do their best, I am sure the IO has some leeway to make a special consideration.

ohyeah
 
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I should clarify that they might swipe your US GC through their card reader and thus maintain an electronic record of your entry into Canada. But most times they don't even take your GC in their hands, they just look at it in your hands as you show it to them, and they simply wave you through.

ohyeah
 
Response to Ohyeah

Hi,
Don't the US immigration and Border folks not scan you when you enter the US as a GC holder thus creating a time and date when you arrived from Canada.
 
Guys,

Thanks all for your sincere advices. All have indicated that I should make every effort to find all the travels I made to Canada. I am telling you it would be hell of a challenge for me to get even the total count of trips I not to mention the approximate dates of these trips. I wish now I could have noted all these travels I made.
Appreciated for all your help.

- Tariq
 
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