OT: 401k/IRA transfer to another country retirement plan

any comments on this??.....

does it sound feasible that we can save tax minus the penalty (atleast 20% tax saving).....if we relocate to india....which does not tax on foreign earning for around two years since you relocate back...

any comments on below:

http://www.r2iclubforums.com/clubvb/showpost.php?p=6481&postcount=18

copy & paste
------------------
Suba,

I had frankly forgotten this. Thanks for reminding.

OK, Here is what I think you need to do.

1. When you R2I, plan to get a REP for yout GC (Re entry permit)

2. Plan such that prior to your leaving USA, you accomplish a direct trustee to trustee (or it is also called custodian to custodian) rollover of your 401K to IRA. For this you need to familiarize yurself with paper work before hand. You may even open an IRA before hand for $1000 with say someone like Vanguard in a say star fund. This way your IRA account is opened and all set.

Next get the paperwork ready to accomplish a rollover of 401K to money market fund in Vanguard. Prior to leaving get this accomplished. Vanguard representatives (call their toll free number) will help you with accomplishing this rollover. Go thru the forms of your company 401K plan too to understand what they need to accomplish this rollover.

Typically you will fill a form with your company closing 401K and requesting a check to be mailed to Vanguard. Vanguard will provide you with the address where your company should mail it and they will provide you with information as to whose name the check should be drawn to. Typically it is "vanguard FBO Suba IRA account" (but check with them or their website. This is called a direct rollover.

If possible, leave a US address (perhaps a friend's) with Vanguard as your mailing address, but log on to website and change your profile to request all communications via electronic means.

Establish a US bank account that can be accessed electronically. Link this account to ICICI Money2India or other such money transfer service.

On Vanguard website, set up such that this account is linked to your Vanguard account. This would mean logging in to your Vanguard account and entering details of your bank account and requesting that the accounts be linked for electronic transfers.

After a rollover is accomplished and fully completed, call up vanguard and tell them you would like to withdraw all ot the earnings and contribution of of the 2007 tax year in the star fund (where you had deposited the $1000). This way you avoid the 10% penalty on this $1000. There is no penalty if the contributions for a particular year are fully withdrawn in the same year together with all corresponding earnings. So withdraw everything in 2007 from the star account.

In January of 2008, request a distribution from your IRA of 50% of the amount in the money market fund. Request no tax witholding. Request an electronic distribution using the website and request that money be transferred to your bank account electronically linked to Vanguard. Once this transfer is complete, transfer money to your indian bank account or get a demand draft whatever you wish using the ICICI or money transfer website.

This money will be taxable for USA during 2008 tax year. Since your earned income in 2008 tax year will be subject to exclusion rules, your only passive income such as bank interest, cap gains etc will be subject to US taxes. Considering that you, your spouse, children on tax return, your taxes will be zero and will just have to pay 10% penalty on the early IRA distribution. You will have to send that check in to IRS.

There should be no Indian taxes on this since you will be RNOR during this period.

Repeat the process in Jan 2009, however this time, you may want Vanguard to withold the penalty amount. In 2008 you will escape the penalty for not having enough witholdings, but in 2009 you will not be able to escape them so during Jan 2009 closing of the account with Vanguard, request that the penalty amount be witheld.

You will note that I have suggested money market for the rolloever IRA money because this is short term money. You may choose short term corporate bond if you like instead of money market.

There is a another approach which involves using checks from vanguad, but I think the approach I have described above should work just fine. This way you will also escape all of North Carolina taxes.
 
any comments on this??.....

does it sound feasible that we can save tax minus the penalty (atleast 20% tax saving).....if we relocate to india....which does not tax on foreign earning for around two years since you relocate back...
All that's doing is bypassing the 30% withholding. That's not really a tax savings. You'd still owe whatever part of that 30% you're supposed to pay, and if you let them withhold the 30% you can get a refund for the difference anyway.
 
All that's doing is bypassing the 30% withholding. That's not really a tax savings. You'd still owe whatever part of that 30% you're supposed to pay, and if you let them withhold the 30% you can get a refund for the difference anyway.


i disagree with you........if you pay careful attention....you realise that when we withdraw.......we will get the total amount.........and it will be considered as your income.........and you have to pay tax on that income..........isnt it??

if i have 50k in IRA.....and i withdraw in two years, equally.......and that 25k become income for each year........joint filing with dependents........i think tax will be null........isnt it??


of course you have to pay the 10% penalty...

what part of equation i am missing??


and my understanding is that they wont withhold the tax part......we will get a 1099 and we have to file the tax return and send the check....even for the 10% penalty.........is this right??
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i disagree with you........if you pay careful attention....you realise that when we withdraw.......we will get the total amount.........and it will be considered as your income.........and you have to pay tax on that income..........isnt it??

if i have 50k in IRA.....and i withdraw in two years, equally.......and that 25k become income for each year........joint filing with dependents........i think tax will be null........isnt it??
Then just withdraw 25K per year normally, they'll withhold 30%, you file US taxes and get a refund. No need to go all that roundabout way.
 
Then just withdraw 25K per year normally, they'll withhold 30%, you file US taxes and get a refund. No need to go all that roundabout way.


that means you agree that if we have funds in IRA/401k when we leave USA.....and then we withdraw later below a taxable income.........thats a tax saving.....because we have not paid taxes on those funds...


I am too not paying much attention to the roundabout way of moving those funds....
 
that means you agree that if we have funds in IRA/401k when we leave USA.....and then we withdraw later below a taxable income.........thats a tax saving.....because we have not paid taxes on those funds...

I am too not paying much attention to the roundabout way of moving those funds....
Yes, if you are going to take out the money, it makes sense to do it piecemeal to keep things in the lowest US tax bracket as much as possible.

But as I explained before, even if you end up paying nothing but the 10% penalty to the US, in the long run you still lose out unless the other country has a lower tax rate on investment income, and/or gives you higher investment returns.
 
Yes, if you are going to take out the money, it makes sense to do it piecemeal to keep things in the lowest US tax bracket as much as possible.

But as I explained before, even if you end up paying nothing but the 10% penalty to the US, in the long run you still lose out unless the other country has a lower tax rate on investment income, and/or gives you higher investment returns.

thanks for the clarification...

the plan is to use this money to invest in tax free gov bonds......and i am sure india also has tax free retirement saving plans.....

and i can also max out in the 401k of india (called as provident fund...) if i have other funds for day to day expenditure...
 
Top