options for people who ALREADY quit their sponserer "sooner"

[TheEnquirer]

hi all,

I saw there are two different groups:
GroupA: group of people who would want to quit after getting their GC and looking to see if its ok (who recently got GC and itching to quit)
AND
GroupB: group who already quit their sponsorer "soon".
-this timeframe of "soon" could be from 1 day - 6 mo - 1year
and some cases in which they did not even join their sponserer/ AC21 company for one reason or other

I wanted to focus on Group B. and what are their options/expereinces.
(Group A is fighting to death !!! )

pls share.
some valid points to look at: for Group B ONLY

- since u already quit "sooner" these things could be in ur mind
1. there MAY be (stress on may) some random checks where USCIS could ask the company if u r employed.
2. dont jump into applying for ur citizenship immediately after u r eligible (5 yrs) - leave a year or two - in 99% of cases the last 5 years before apllying for citizenhip is what matters - so dont take risk -if u can afford
3. if u apply for something - that invloves going and checking ur history(how u got ur GC) - try to avoid.
- I dont know if u apply for ReentryPermit- whether they will check ur history - (REP is something that GC holders commonly apply among others)
4. depending on when u quit ur sponserer - there is a good chance that the year u got GC - u still can provide W2/ tax receipt from the sponsoring company - save that.

5. etc...... please share for the good of others

 

[p_card]

Thanks TheEnquirer for staring such a nice thed which everyone (at least many) want to discuss. If one can change the job while GC is in process, why it should be a big issue to change job after getting it? I read so many post and no one is clear onj this. even Rajeev has suggested (in the sticky) that 6 month to one year is good enough but this is again his feeling. When one is a LPR, I believe just like american citizen for all purpose except voting, why one should not be free to change his job?
I know this is not the reply to your question but thats what feel.

sorry if this is not what you were expecting to as an reply.

thanks

 

[Participant]

Seems the only option available 'here ' is to follow the threads like :
'scary discussion with an attorney. what should i do to start my GC again? '
and read 'some legalese' posts there in and get scared for one's life.
Only hope this thread will not become such one, next.

 

[TheEnquirer]

hi

lets look for some tell tale signs on this:

1. for example talk to friends , friends friend and see if anybody after getting GC - had their Reentry permit /or any other appln. denied or their LUDs (I485/ 140) changed long after they got GC - could mean they checked on ur I-485 approval.

2. if u r cozy with that HR chick/guy in ur company (HR chicks always look cute - i dont know about the guys) or even otherwise - ask them how often they get requests for this "payroll check" on employees from UCSIS?

....

 

[AmericanWannabe]

Don't worry too much. As I see the people around, the only thing I see
is that those people who never carrry the card, who never report change
of address, who do not report traffic violaton on N-400, who change
employer right after getting the GC all happily get citizenship.

Bad things I see is that the people die in car accidents, get disease
liek cancers, etc.


So if you have the nergy to worry, worry about more severe and more
likely things

 

[hipka]

Gr8 argument to use AC21, if you switched employers soon after GC.

AC21 allows sponsor change before GC approval if 485 is pending for <180 days. So we can argure based on the following assumptions ---

1) Nobody can accurately predict when the GC is approved.
2) It takes about 3-6 months to secure alternative employment
3) Once the job search crosses a particular stage its not possible to remain in your old job. ex. If you already accepted another job, your employer found out.

Now lets say someone switched jobs 15 days after GC approval they can argue that :
1) I was planning to use AC21 as my GC was not approved 2 months ago when I started the job search.(show proof that you started job search many months ago)
2) I accepted the alternate job a few days before GC approval.
3) GC was approved out of the blue (suddenly)
4) As my job search had crossed a certain stage I could not remain in my current job.
5) New job duties are similar to the old one, so AC21 would be valid if GC were not approved.

-- SO anyone who switched jobs SOON AFTER GC, DON'T WORRY! THERE ARE SEVERAL ARGUMENTS TO PROTECT YOU. EVEN IF SOME OF THESE FAIL, HAVE FAITH IN US JUSTICE SYSTEM, THEY WILL USUALLY ACCEPT COMMON SENSE ARGUMENTS LIKE THE ONE ABOVE.

-- REMEMBER JOEF GIVES PESSIMISTIC ADVICE

 

[TheEnquirer]

one more scenario under group B

just to get it clear:

person A was looking for a job so that he/she can use Ac21 - but before he/she could apply for AC21 - I485 gets approved.

the scenario that hipka is saying is valid and could happen more often than we think
Lets put it under Group B-because this scenario and the three scenarios mentioned by vitalsigns - all come under same category with respect to Future Actions to be taken. - eventhough the reasoning may be different

 

[neocor]

On one hand there is a clear cut rule with AC21 that you can safely change jobs after 6 months of applying the 485, as long as the job is in similar capacity.
Witg GC approved there is no that specifies any period as to when you can safely change the job. Infact the intent of the GC is that you will work with the sponsoring company once you get the GC.

Now looking at both, wont it be safe for a person to use the AC21 as soon as possible before their GC gets approved?
Its a real joke, but looks like its the safest thing to do. People should be encouraged to use AC21 ASAP.

neocor

 

[hipka]

On one hand there is a clear cut rule with AC21 that you can safely change jobs after 6 months of applying the 485, as long as the job is in similar capacity.
Witg GC approved there is no that specifies any period as to when you can safely change the job. Infact the intent of the GC is that you will work with the sponsoring company once you get the GC.

Now looking at both, wont it be safe for a person to use the AC21 as soon as possible before their GC gets approved?
Its a real joke, but looks like its the safest thing to do. People should be encouraged to use AC21 ASAP.

neocor

One problem with this is that several fortune 100 companies will not hire you unless you have a GC. This may be because

1) They don't want to get into complications later
2) They really don't understand the AC21 concept
3) They are anti immigrant or
4) They are simply racist.

So you can't use AC21 ASAP, if you do you may likely land up in a job similar to the one you have.
Also you are forgetting the fact that as a GC holder you can command a pay hike of upto 20% over a non GC holder

 

[hipka]

May I ask why you think so? My pay raises had nothing to do with me having a GC or not.

Mostly because of the following reasons:
-->For F1 students-- The first job you take up in the US pays very low as you are forced to take up an offer after you graduate from a US univ. as you MUST find a H-1 sponsor within a year.
-->For H1 (specially from india and china) -- The salary of your first US job seems too high compared to your home country. Also your dream of coming to the US has not yet turned into a nightmare!
-->You are shit scared of asking for a pay hike as if your employer fires you, you have to leave the country and become the laughing stock of your relatives and friends.
-->Your employer understands your situation and fully exploits it b'coz he is no fool.
--> Being an indian or chinese you are traditionally risk averse and have concepts like loyalty to employers which are absent in the US
--> Companies which offer H1 sponsorship are the lowest paying companies(check out the labor dept. website if you don't believe me)
When you get your GC, all of the above are neutralized and your can command at least a 20% pay hike.

 

[arizonian]

One problem with this is that several fortune 100 companies will not hire you unless you have a GC. This may be because

1) They don't want to get into complications later
2) They really don't understand the AC21 concept
3) They are anti immigrant or
4) They are simply racist.

I disagree.

None of the above mentioned points are the reasons why these companies require a GC.

There is only one reason: Because they have enough GC/Citizen applicants that they do not have to bother with paperwork involved with immigration.

I have worked for more than one employer who initially said that they would "never sponsor a visa". Years later, these same employers were willing to do "any paperwork" when they were unable to find qualified GC/citizen.

 

[arizonian]

Also you are forgetting the fact that as a GC holder you can command a pay hike of upto 20% over a non GC holder

That is far from the truth. From personal experience, my salary had nothing to do with the visa status. I know that is generally true for most hard working competent people.

GC does gives you a peace of mind and greater mobility.

In fact this forum has many posts where people's income and jobs before GC were better than after; possibly because they "took it easy" after the GC. You have to agree that being on a visa is quite an incentive to work hard and excel.

 

[neocor]

Its complete BS

One problem with this is that several fortune 100 companies will not hire you unless you have a GC. This may be because

1) They don't want to get into complications later
2) They really don't understand the AC21 concept
3) They are anti immigrant or
4) They are simply racist.

So you can't use AC21 ASAP, if you do you may likely land up in a job similar to the one you have.
Also you are forgetting the fact that as a GC holder you can command a pay hike of upto 20% over a non GC holder

This is complete BS.
I found that 99% of companies who say they prefer GC are also comfortable with EAD. A few of them may refuse to apply the AC21 becuase they dont want to spend money for the Lawyer or renew your EAD. In such cases you can yourselrself spend that money and they have no problem with that.
Every company that has dealt with H1 people know about the AC21 concept.
Any company that is anti immigrant may not take you even if you have GC so those companies do not count. Same with racist.
Are you suggesting that they are racist in terms of GC and non-GC. I used to think that racism is associated with race.

Also the 20% extra that you are talking about could be because you end up paying for the lawyer for renewing the EAD/AP every year and additionally doing the AC21. But that too wont be 20% it probably would be 2%.

Some companies may only prefer Citizens just because of security clearence. Otherwise there is very little difference between a GC and going with AC21.


neocor

 

[hipka]

I disagree.

None of the above mentioned points are the reasons why these companies require a GC.

There is only one reason: Because they have enough GC/Citizen applicants that they do not have to bother with paperwork involved with immigration.

I have worked for more than one employer who initially said that they would "never sponsor a visa". Years later, these same employers were willing to do "any paperwork" when they were unable to find qualified GC/citizen.

-->Completely incorrect. Why do these same companies hire immigrants as contract workers then?
-->Also the most important reason these companies convert later is because they realise that immigrants are cheap and several skills and degrees can be had for a lower salary.
-->The argument that they are unable to find a qualified GC/citizen is complete bull. You can find just about any skill set locally in america if you are willing to pay correctly or give a chance to bright young college grad. to prove his worth.
--> Why has there not been a SINGLE indian CEO of a US fortune 50 company? This is despite the fact that asians are the most highly qualified employees and score in the most in analytical tests and are more than 20% of the staff in engg. depts. of some fortune 50 companies
Believe me I have worked to recruit people in a small company before and seen how these things work.

 

[neocor]

Mostly because of the following reasons:
-->For F1 students-- The first job you take up in the US pays very low as you are forced to take up an offer after you graduate from a US univ. as you MUST find a H-1 sponsor within a year.

Completely irrelevent in context of the argument between AC21 and GC.

-->For H1 (specially from india and china) -- The salary of your first US job seems too high compared to your home country. Also your dream of coming to the US has not yet turned into a nightmare!

Again irrelevent in this context. If someone thinks this way then he will be earning less even after getting the GC. I have known people like these.

-->You are shit scared of asking for a pay hike as if your employer fires you, you have to leave the country and become the laughing stock of your relatives and friends.

Again irrelevent in this context. A shit scared person will always be peeing in his pants no matter what.

-->Your employer understands your situation and fully exploits it b'coz he is no fool.

Again completely irrelevent, although its true that any employer will take advantage of your position. However from an employer standpoint AC21 and GC are same.

--> Being an indian or chinese you are traditionally risk averse and have concepts like loyalty to employers which are absent in the US

Again completely BS in the current context.

--> Companies which offer H1 sponsorship are the lowest paying companies(check out the labor dept. website if you don't believe me)
When you get your GC, all of the above are neutralized and your can command at least a 20% pay hike.

Another BS statement in the end which is completely irrelevent to the context of AC21 v/s GC. You probably should post this where they are discussing the advatages and disadvantages in working on H1 v/s GC.

neocor

 

[hipka]

This is complete BS.
I found that 99% of companies who say they prefer GC are also comfortable with EAD. A few of them may refuse to apply the AC21 becuase they dont want to spend money for the Lawyer or renew your EAD. In such cases you can yourselrself spend that money and they have no problem with that.
Every company that has dealt with H1 people know about the AC21 concept.
Any company that is anti immigrant may not take you even if you have GC so those companies do not count. Same with racist.
Are you suggesting that they are racist in terms of GC and non-GC. I used to think that racism is associated with race.

The 1% who are not comfortable with EAD are the companies I am talking about, I don't know what area of the US you come from but that figure is greater than 1%. No company can be anti immigrant and announce it. They can only make discreet policies which create hurdles for immigrants. Not sponsoring GC is a great anti immigrant strategy. By the time you get your GC you are around 30 and you are already 5 years junior to the local guy who joined the company after graduation. Then put in a policy stating that someone who works for 5 yrs or more will only be eligible for promotion.Same thing with race, most of the immigrants are from minority race.

Also the 20% extra that you are talking about could be because you end up paying for the lawyer for renewing the EAD/AP every year and additionally doing the AC21. But that too wont be 20% it probably would be 2%.

Some companies may only prefer Citizens just because of security clearence. Otherwise there is very little difference between a GC and going with AC21.

Attorney fee has nothing to do with it.

neocor[/QUOTE]

 

[yeppo]

I fall under that grey area. Within a few days (3 days) of my joining another company my GC which was sponsored by my former company got approved. I had no time to even get the AC21 letter to send to USCIS. My lawyer also advised me not to send anything as it would just confuse matters.

I guess technically AC21 covers me and my joining letter as well as a good lawyer hopefully can explain the situation. Incidentally I joined on the same title and similar job description. I also fully intend to stay in this job for a while.

Rgds,

Yeppo

 

[Myxomop]

No company can be anti immigrant and announce it. They can only make discreet policies which create hurdles for immigrants. Not sponsoring GC is a great anti immigrant strategy. By the time you get your GC you are around 30 and you are already 5 years junior to the local guy who joined the company after graduation. Then put in a policy stating that someone who works for 5 yrs or more will only be eligible for promotion.Same thing with race, most of the immigrants are from minority race.

You have to rethink the way you look at things. You do not have to work for the same employer for your whole career. If you want to whine and be a victim of a real or perceived policy, you can certainly do that. Or you can go out and find another job. Most pay hikes are achieved by changing employers, as you might know.

It is the skillset that is the most important thing, not the number of years that you worked for the company. You can join a new company and make twice as much as your proverbial "local guy".

 

[arizonian]

Are you suggesting that they are racist in terms of GC and non-GC. I used to think that racism is associated with race.


neocor

Yes, it appears that HIPKA seems to think that non-GC holders is a separate race. If you listen to him, he might evan convince you that they are an altogether different species !!!!!

 

[hipka]

You have to rethink the way you look at things. You do not have to work for the same employer for your whole career. If you want to whine and be a victim of a real or perceived policy, you can certainly do that. Or you can go out and find another job. Most pay hikes are achieved by changing employers, as you might know.

It is the skillset that is the most important thing, not the number of years that you worked for the company. You can join a new company and make twice as much as your proverbial "local guy".

Thats right, thats the reason I am planning to head back to india after getting my citizenship and start something of my own. I have extensively searched jobs in the midwest area, but nobody is ready to hire for management positions unless you are above 30. Also the culture in 'traditional companies ' favours people who have worked for a long time with the same employer. Probably people working in the IT sector will not realise this as they switch companies frequently. Maybe people in this forum are mainly from the IT sector, thats the reason they are complaining so bitterly about my posts!