OCI vs. PIO Comparison - Advantages and Disadvantages

S

sap283

Registered Users (C)
I understand that OCI is not dual citizenship, but name is misleading and if you have OCI you are eligible to reclaim Indian citizenship, if you spent few years in India. So, I think it is path to dual citizenship.

So, I would like to know if someone is aware; about what are the disadvantages of getting OCI, in terms of representation by US government if you are in INDIA.
 
sap283 said:
I understand that OCI is not dual citizenship, but name is misleading and if you have OCI you are eligible to reclaim Indian citizenship, if you spent few years in India. So, I think it is path to dual citizenship.

So, I would like to know if someone is aware; about what are the disadvantages of getting OCI, in terms of representation by US government if you are in INDIA.
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It is not a path to dual citizenship. When you reclaim Indian citizenship, you will be required to renounce all other citizenships you possess.
 
sap283 said:
I understand that OCI is not dual citizenship, but name is misleading and if you have OCI you are eligible to reclaim Indian citizenship, if you spent few years in India. So, I think it is path to dual citizenship.

So, I would like to know if someone is aware; about what are the disadvantages of getting OCI, in terms of representation by US government if you are in INDIA.
Click to expand...

Here is what US embassy - New Delhi currently states on its website:
"This program often has been mischaracterized as "dual nationality" or "dual citizenship." However, a person who holds an OCI Card in reality is granted an Indian visa, not Indian citizenship. Thus, an American citizen who obtains OCI status remains a citizen only of the United States."

I think this statement clarifies most of the doubts.
 
The Indian government frivolously uses the word 'Citizenship' in OCI maybe just to make NRIs feel good? Or maybe they were themselves confused when coining the term. Even some politicians/minister(s) had openly and wrongly equated OCI to dual citizenship. This leads to confusion everywhere. One has to refer to various websites to get the true picture. They should rename it to something that's more accurate. Or they can just scrap the term 'OCI' and consolidate everything into ONE single entity: Person of Indian Origin Residence Permit (PIORP) which should be valid for life, or maybe it can have two durations - 15 yrs and lifelong.
 
nrimumbaikar said:
Here is what US embassy - New Delhi currently states on its website:
"This program often has been mischaracterized as "dual nationality" or "dual citizenship." However, a person who holds an OCI Card in reality is granted an Indian visa, not Indian citizenship. Thus, an American citizen who obtains OCI status remains a citizen only of the United States."

I think this statement clarifies most of the doubts.
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Thanks nrimumbaikar,

Contrary to what New Delhi consulate is saying, here is what Mumbai consulate has to say…
http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/entry_and_exit_requirements.html

Any person who is considered to have dual nationality as a citizen of both India and the U.S. is subject to all Indian laws while in India. Moreover, a dual national also may be subject to other laws and regulations that impose special obligations on Indian citizens, such as taxation.

What’s the real info?
 
The mumbai consulate also has a link to the State Dept website which clearly defines a dual national as one who is a citizen of two countires.
Sine the indian govt does not consider a person holding OCI as a citizen(of india) the issue is not germane.
 
US Citizens, according to international law, have the right to demand to see their Counsel when detained. The counsel may provide legal assistance, and other help to their citizens. By wrongly defining OCI as dual citizenship in some places, Indian Govt. can refuse US consular assistance to US Citizens who have OCI.
 
sap283 said:
Thanks nrimumbaikar,

Contrary to what New Delhi consulate is saying, here is what Mumbai consulate has to say…
http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/entry_and_exit_requirements.html

Any person who is considered to have dual nationality as a citizen of both India and the U.S. is subject to all Indian laws while in India. Moreover, a dual national also may be subject to other laws and regulations that impose special obligations on Indian citizens, such as taxation.

What’s the real info?
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I had read this info from Mumbai Consulate web page. But contrary to the popular (wishful ?) belief OCI is not citizenship.
Anyone would know that one does not get a visa (OCI is a U visa issued by India) from the country of citizenship but gets to keep a passport, which is not the case here.


Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Please do not consider this a legal advice. Consult a lawyer if you need professional advice.
 
OCI is not citizenship nor is it a visa. I agree the C in OCI is a misnomer. OCI is more like a better US green card. You can come into the country anytime, stay any length of time w/o registering with FRRO, buy non-restricted (like non-argicultural) property, work. It also has restrictions that are typical for non-citizens (no voting, restrictions on travel to sensitive areas, no Govt employment). You would still be a citizen of the country you hold a passport of and still avail that country's consular services. One of the most important aspects of OCI is the provision of getting full Indian citizenship if one so desires. Full Indian citizenship does mean losing any other country's citizenship you have.
 
If you applied for PIO instead of OCI, what is your reasoning behind that...

Some of my friends (actually, most of them) applied for PIO instead of OCI after getting citizenship. Their reasoning is that there is no big advantage to OCI over PIO (no registration for stay over 6 months is the only big advantage). However, the word "citizenship" is not there in PIO and hence security clearance is easier with PIO.

If you did the same, i.e., chose PIO over OCI, please share your reasoning behind that.

Also, if you did choose OCI please share that reasoning as well.

Thanks.

edit - btw, i have gone through all the comparisons between OCI & PIO, i just want your personal reasoning behind it. thanks.
 
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There is a good document on San Francisco consulate website comparing PIO and OCI. There is a similar one on immihelp.com - just google PIO vs OCI.

I think apart from the explanation that "citizenship" means "visa", security clearance should not have an issue - but no direct experience on how difficult is this explanation.

In my opinion, OCI helps you a) avoid FRRO registration, and b) get lifelong visa.

I recall seeing a case where OCI may not be available to children if their parents are still Indian citizens, but PIO may be ... could not find links though. Double check if you fit in this category.
 
tmc said:
Some of my friends (actually, most of them) applied for PIO instead of OCI after getting citizenship. Their reasoning is that there is no big advantage to OCI over PIO (no registration for stay over 6 months is the only big advantage). However, the word "citizenship" is not there in PIO and hence security clearance is easier with PIO.

If you did the same, i.e., chose PIO over OCI, please share your reasoning behind that.

Also, if you did choose OCI please share that reasoning as well.

Thanks.
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That was old story because OCI program was launched few years ago. That's why security clearance companies didn't know about OCI. so they've learned that OCI is not a citizenship and it is a permanent visa. They ok'd it. In fact, I have an OCI and security clearance. No problem! Security clearance company said that Department of State confirms that OCI is not a citizenship.

OCI/PIO doesn't allow you to obtain a top-secret level clearance or very high-level clearance unless you surrender OCI/PIO, but OCI allows you to obtain any level security clearance. It is difficult to obtain a top-secret clearance because it requires that all families including siblings (including step siblings or half siblings), kids (including step kids or half kids), wives (including ex) and parents must be US citizen. Security clearance (any level) can be obtained even if you have an OCI.
 
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USGC485 said:
... It is difficult to obtain a top-secret clearance because it requires that all families including siblings (including step siblings or half siblings), kids (including step kids or half kids), wives (including ex) and parents must be US citizen.
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Where did you get this information? Are you aware that if this were true our president won't qualify for this kind of clearance?
 
nkm-oct23 said:
Where did you get this information? Are you aware that if this were true our president won't qualify for this kind of clearance?
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I went thru the job interview at NSA. I was not qualified to get a job that requires a top secret clearance because they said two people in my family are not US citizens yet plus spent time outside USA. Actually it was not denied, but they said it will take longer to process because two people in my family are not US citizens.

I believe People who don't need any security clearance are Congress people, Vice President, President, and Secretary of State because they are elected and it is their responsibilities to protect the US interests and its citizens.

Information:
http://www.taonline.com/securityclearances/#SCREQ
http://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf
 
USGC485 said:
I went thru the job interview at NSA. I was not qualified to get a job that requires a top secret clearance because they said two people in my family are not US citizens yet plus spent time outside USA. Actually it was not denied, but they said it will take longer to process because two people in my family are not US citizens.

I believe People who don't need any security clearance are Congress people, Vice President, President, and Secretary of State because they are elected and it is their responsibilities to protect the US interests and its citizens.

Information:
http://www.taonline.com/securityclearances/#SCREQ
http://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf
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FBI conducts extensive background checks on all presidential candidates. Moreover secretary of state is not an elected position and all of president's cabinet members also undergo similar FBI checks.
 
btw, IMHO, this whole OCI thing doesn't make sense to me. GoI should simply say dual citizenship not allowed. period.

they could have achieved the same as follows: simply add a consular/GoI stamp statement in PIO card (for the people who would satisfy the current OCI requirements) saying:

"FRRO registration not required for any length of stay." (similar to "ECNR not required" in passport.)

This would have achieved the same effect without much expense. Granted, it may not give the satisfaction of the word "citizenship" to some people.
 
tmc said:
btw, IMHO, this whole OCI thing doesn't make sense to me. GoI should simply say dual citizenship not allowed. period.

they could have achieved the same as follows: simply add a consular/GoI stamp statement in PIO card (for the people who would satisfy the current OCI requirements) saying:

"FRRO registration not required for any length of stay." (similar to "ECNR not required" in passport.)

This would have achieved the same effect without much expense. Granted, it may not give the satisfaction of the word "citizenship" to some people.
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It is not that simple. This is a multi-year negotiation between the Indian government and the PIOs. On one end is the PIO lobby pushing for more rights, and on the other hand is the bureaucracy as well as genuine concerns about how to do this.

A recall that a couple of years ago, they removed the restrictions on PIOs having to pay dollar fare for travel within India. This also came about as part of this lobbying. Same goes for hotel stay. Granted that in many cases they just go by your look and if you look Indian, you pay rupees. But having this defined in law has its own advantage.

On the other hand, bureaucracy being bureaucracy, it can hit either government or private firms. I was looking for some type of account with a bank/investment company, and they told me that they can do somethings for PIOs but not OCIs. On the face it sounds ridiculous as these are just both visas, and if at all, OCI ranks higher than PIO, but the bank would not budge because this is how their operating instructions are.

Oh well...

Anyway, PIO, OCI have come into existence over a decade, and their process has streamlined bit by bit. I think and hope this is not the end of the process, and it will go further. The challenge is that with a lifetime visa and no registration, the demands of 90% of PIO population might be met, and there may not be much motivation for improvements going forward. Let us see if the next pravasi divas brings something, given that this is a full 6-9 months after the elections and a relatively stable government so the government might be safe adding a few more measures.
 
Even though India does not allow Dual Citizenship, they should bring the concept of a Indian National (like a US national but not a US citizen). This way at least we could get a Indian passport.
 
Employment in India - PIO or OCI better?

I am considering taking up employment in India. The company is a branch of an American company. Is it better to be on PIO or OCI. On one of the sticky threads in this same forum posted by PIO1, (http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=209468) I read that:

[Please note PIO cardholders are allowed to work, but OCI is yet to be officially confirmed, though there does not seem to be a problem - especially as the OCI legislation provides parity with NRIs in this regard.]

Although OCI's dont have to register, I am concerned about the lack of official clarity regarding OCI's taking up employment in India.

Any thoughts?
 
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