NIW or PERM, which is a better option

h1bdoc

New Member
Hi!
I am doing my residency on H1, I have a job offer from a place which is in medically underserved area. They say they prefer to sponser greencard through NIW but will be willing to do it by labor certification if I insist. Can somebody please tell me the pros and cons of each path and which one is a better option for a situation like this. Thank you very much and any input will be greatly appreciated.
 
i will go for perm. perm can be approved very fast and subsequently you can file perm 140 and then 485.
I you go via NIW you have to complete 5 year in underserved area before you can file for adjustment of status. So perm will be much faster for you specially if you have never been on j1. I know somebody recently who go his perm to Green card within 6-8months. he simply lucked out.
so perm/labor is the way to go.
 
just to correct my previous statement. under niw you can file 485 concurrently ( which will entitle you to advance parole and employement authorization) but it will not approved until u complete 5 year. Under perm there is no restriction of 5 years.
 
thank you

Thank you for the valuable input. So, if I take NIW, I will get EAD earlier but have to wait for green card for 5 years. AM I right? Does that mean that I will have to work with the same employer for 5 years or can I work at other places as long as they are under medically underserved area once I have the EAD. And will my wife get an EAD with my NIW? Will she have the restriction on her EAD too?

Thank you
 
EAD from NIW .....

h1bdoc said:
.......... if I take NIW, I will get EAD earlier but have to wait for green card for 5 years. AM I right?
>>> Yes.

h1bdoc said:
.... Does that mean that I will have to work with the same employer for 5 years
>>>NO

h1bdoc said:
.. or can I work at other places as long as they are under medically underserved area once I have the EAD.
>>> Yes. you do not need to wait for EAD to work at any MUA. you can be working on H1b in any MUA.

h1bdoc said:
... And will my wife get an EAD with my NIW? Will she have the restriction on her EAD too?
>>> i) yes. only when you file your I-140+I-485 as primary and your wife's I-485 as secondary, that she can get an EAD (assuming you are not from a backlogged country and can file I-485)
ii). no restrictions on her EAD

>>>>>most imp ...... do BOTH (NIW + PERM labor cert)
and use whatever comes first for your GC.
.
 
Consider doing the following:

- File I140 EB-2 NIW petition (look at the self-help thread, no need for attorney)

- don't file concurrent I485

- have practice file for PERM

- once PERM approved, either file concurrent I140/I485 or wait for I140 to go through and use consular processing.

Rationale:

- The PERM based green card is in all likelihood the fastest route

- If the practice tries to rattle your chain with the threat of taking away your green-card, you can allways change to a different practice or open your own shop based on the NIW.

- If you need employment authorization for your wife, you can file I485s for both of you and an EAD for her.

Say, how much time do you have left on H1b ? Are you from retrogression land ? (both factors might make you modify the plan)
 
PERM or NIW

I will start my job with J-1 waiver in Jan 2007.So
1- What is the best way for apply for GC in my situation( being in H1/J waiver for 3years 2007-2010) PERM or NIW?

2- If I choose PERM, should i wait until end of my 3 years, then apply or i can apply for perm as soon as i get my waiver approval or H-1 be approval?
3- How long does PERM take to get approve?
Thanks
 
I agree with hadron's assessment. I am in sort of similar sitaution with both NIW and perm approved but i filed a concurrent 485 with niw which i am trying to switch to perm(nightmare). I filed 485 with NIW because of impending retrogression that was/is coming.
File NIW under self petition rather than employer based without NIW and start perm for faster processing if you not from retrogressed lands as hadron put it.
 
usadc71 said:
I will start my job with J-1 waiver in Jan 2007.So
1- What is the best way for apply for GC in my situation( being in H1/J waiver for 3years 2007-2010) PERM or NIW?
perm is fastest.look at hadron's analysis about whats the best way.

2- If I choose PERM, should i wait until end of my 3 years, then apply or i can apply for perm as soon as i get my waiver approval or H-1 be approval?
you can apply for perm anytime 3 years. I will recomend starting early.
3- How long does PERM take to get approve?
most case within 1-2 months. the next step is to apply for 140 after perm approval .I know people where they submitted perm online in evening and got approval next morning( probaby exception)
Thanks
 
usadc71 said:
1- What is the best way for apply for GC in my situation( being in H1/J waiver for 3years 2007-2010) PERM or NIW?
Both. The NIW you can do yourself, no vodoo involved. Then have the practice file a PERM based I140 for you in addition.
2- If I choose PERM, should i wait until end of my 3 years, then apply or i can apply for perm as soon as i get my waiver approval or H-1 be approval?
The first step in the labor certification (PERM) process is recruitment. Your employer can start that the moment you have fulfilled the job requirements (finished residency).
If you are on a waiver, your employer can file the I140 anytime after they receive the approved labor. However, you CANNOT file your I485 until 3 years 1 day on H1b status have been completet. This is the advantage of the NIW, you can get started with the I485 a lot earlier, but then you have to wait for the 5 years (or finagle a petition transfer after 3) until you get your card.
3- How long does PERM take to get approve?
I believe 90% are approved within 45 days. In addition, whatever time it takes these days to get an I140 approved.
 
niw

Dear Hadron,
You have been very helpful in many instances. I have a question , I will appreciate if u can help me. I have completed the waiver this july and I am planning to join the fellowship by July 2007. The problem is I haven't been able to apply for I-485 (my pd is Apr 2004- India), I opted for the cp and my file is awaiting in Delhi Consulate waiting for the pd to be current. So my question is should I apply for NIW and try to get the EAD before July? Will I be able to continue my fellowship with the EAD( If I get) or I have to apply for the new H-1? If the NIW thing dosn't workout, Can I continue my GC process as it even If I will have to have new H-1 for the fellowship? Kind of difficult situation as the fellowship is from very good place and basically I am tired of this waiver job(not a good employer, he wants to use me as far as he can). Your advise will be greatly appreciated.
 
sudmoni said:
Dear Hadron,
You have been very helpful in many instances. I have a question , I will appreciate if u can help me. I have completed the waiver this july and I am planning to join the fellowship by July 2007. The problem is I haven't been able to apply for I-485 (my pd is Apr 2004- India), I opted for the cp and my file is awaiting in Delhi Consulate waiting for the pd to be current. So my question is should I apply for NIW and try to get the EAD before July? Will I be able to continue my fellowship with the EAD( If I get) or I have to apply for the new H-1? If the NIW thing dosn't workout, Can I continue my GC process as it even If I will have to have new H-1 for the fellowship? Kind of difficult situation as the fellowship is from very good place and basically I am tired of this waiver job(not a good employer, he wants to use me as far as he can). Your advise will be greatly appreciated.

Your situation is very difficult. Some sort of change in the EB immigration system is your best hope.
If you leave your current job, your employer will likely cancel your green card petition and that would be the end of that as far as the LC based application goes.
With respect to the NIW, you could certainly file for the NIW140 and get it, however, since you would not be able to file the 485 as you are from India, you would not be eligible for the EAD benefit.
To start the fellowship, you would either have to have the green card by then or go on a H1b visa. Using the EAD from a 485 based on the NIW based petition before you complete the 5 yr requirement is risky too. That is assuming you were even able to file a 485(which being from India you are not currently).
So if the Fellowship is your priority you will have to do that on a H1visa and worry about the green card after that. Otherwise sit tight and wait. Sorry, there are no good options for you that I can see. If it's any consolation, I am in the same boat and even nearing the end of my NIW time!
 
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sudmoni said:
Dear Hadron,
You have been very helpful in many instances. I have a question , I will appreciate if u can help me. I have completed the waiver this july and I am planning to join the fellowship by July 2007. The problem is I haven't been able to apply for I-485 (my pd is Apr 2004- India), I opted for the cp and my file is awaiting in Delhi Consulate waiting for the pd to be current. So my question is should I apply for NIW and try to get the EAD before July? Will I be able to continue my fellowship with the EAD( If I get) or I have to apply for the new H-1? If the NIW thing dosn't workout, Can I continue my GC process as it even If I will have to have new H-1 for the fellowship? Kind of difficult situation as the fellowship is from very good place and basically I am tired of this waiver job(not a good employer, he wants to use me as far as he can). Your advise will be greatly appreciated.

Tough call! Comes down to a question of priorities. Is it your #1 priority to become a US permanent resident and eventually citizen, or is it your #1 priority to further your medical education and career.

As pointed out by 'posmd', your already approved I140 is pretty much toast the moment you leave the employer. Unless he was a good friend of yours (which doesn't seem to be the case) and willing to keep the I140 (and a job-offer for you) open, he will probably withdraw the petition (you opted for CP, if you where going the I485 route and already in the US there is a law restricting the withdrawal after more than 6 months). The employer will get the PERM back and be able to use it to lure your successor into the practice (we can file green-card for you immediately.....).

It looks like you only spend 3 years of 'H-time' for your waiver. So, in principle if you can find a fellowship that sponsors H1b (few do), you could spend 1-2 years on H1 in fellowship and then get your future employer to go through the moves for a green-card. Who knows, chances are retrogression will go away in a couple of years (once the 'hump' of 190.000 IT related H1bs from 1999 who are getting greencards right now is worked off). But nobody can say that for sure. If retrogression for india goes away, that option could work out. If it is there to stay, you could potentially end up in a situation where you would have to leave the US after more than 10 years here.

If you file the NIW, you would have to proove after 2 years that you are in full-time practice at your approved location. If you do fellowship, that could be dicey. The service has come down hard on people who have pulled this stunt (a radiologist in NY state).

You will have to do what makes you (and your family) happy. Your job doesn't sound like a keeper. Now that you are free to leave, you might be able to renegotiate your contract terms (maybe open a branch office in a non-underserved location so you can create some revenue and don't have to deal with your boss on a day to day basis while retaining the same tax-ID and keeping the I140 alive). Your boss might be an a-hole, but as long as he is a greedy a-hole he will do anything that increases the cash in his pocket. Loosing a physician (who is established in the community) certainly doesn't improve his bottom line.
 
thanks

Dear Posmd/Hadron,
thanks for the detailed reply. I know it is a very tough cookie to solve but I think doing the fellowship at the moment from the reputed institution is my priority. Hope I can retain my old PD so that my GC process with the new employer should not be very hard( I hope). But do I have to apply for new H-1 or just the H-1 transfer? what if I try to talk to the employer if he keeps my GC running during my fellowship, will it be a good idea to change CP to I-485 just before starting the fellowship and let the gc in process as CP may be a risky approach if in case the date becomes current during the fellowship and I get the call for the interview during the fellowship? Any advice? thanks again
 
> Hope I can retain my old PD so that my GC process with the new
> employer should not be very hard( I hope).

If your employer withdraws the petition before you have filed an I485 you will loose that PD.

> But do I have to apply for new H-1 or just the H-1 transfer?

H1b transfer, piece of cake. (make sure that the petition specifies in bold letters that it is a university who is filing so you don't fall under the cap).

> what if I try to talk to the employer if he keeps my GC running
> during my fellowship,

If he is willing to do that, it would certainly be the best option. By keeping a job offer open for you and maintaining the I140, your current CP case would stay alive. Downside of this is that once you have your consular interview and you receive your immigrant visa, you will have to take up work with the employer and stay with them for 90+ days. Otherwise you could be in trouble 5 years later at the stage of citizenship interview (or anytime before that when you enter the country).

> will it be a good idea to change CP to I-485 just before starting
> the fellowship and let the gc in process as CP may be a risky approach
> if in case the date becomes current during the fellowship and I get
> the call for the interview during the fellowship?

There is no law that requires you to work for the petitioner BEFORE the issuance of a green-card (either by entrance on immigrant visa or AOS). GC is for future employment, and you have to show that you have the INTENT of staying 'permanently' with the employer after you have your GC ('permanent' in the eyes of USCIS is 90 days).
I don't know what 'switching' to AOS would entail. You might have to file this 'action on approved petition' request to have your I140 moved from the national visa center back to a regional processing center. However, as you don't have an I485 yet, it would stay right there.

So in theory, you could do your fellowship on H1b and have your new prospective employer file a new PERM/I140 for you. You should be able to retain the old (2004) PD in that setting (pure speculation on my part, not supported by evidence, talk to someone who knows the facts).
 
hadron,

please clarify. if you have an I-140 through one employer and ask another employer to file PERM/I-140 for you, can the PD be transferred from the first employer to the second?

thanks.
 
if you have an I-140 through one employer and ask another employer to file PERM/I-140 for you, can the PD be transferred from the first employer to the second?

If you have an I485 based on one approved I140 and you replace that I140 with a different one (from a new employer), you retain the older PD (which might be the one from the 'new' employer in case the labor cert was filed before the 'old' labor cert). I believe this was detailed in a Yates memo in 2000.
 
thanks

Hadron,
Thanks a lot for your good reply. But regarding the retaining of the old PD I am kind of confused, You said I may loose my old pd if I leave the employer before filing 485 but I have seen many discussions including in murthy's website , which says that if the i-140 is cancelled because of the fraud or misrepresentation then one looses the pd otherwise once i-140 is approved then that PD belongs to the employee.Yes one has to start the entire process again with the new employer.I haven't read anywhere about the need to apply for i-485 to retain the PD.Please correct me if I am wrong.
thanks.
 
That is why I am just a little doctor squirrel collecting his nuts and not a high-priced attorney...
I don't know.
 
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