NIW - avoiding independent references

N

nist

Registered Users (C)
For NIW case, it is difficult for me to obtain independent references due to my work. I wonder whether the following explanation is acceptable by BCIS. Experts please help. Thanks!

"Dr. Nist's (myself) innovation is highly product-oriented and is proprietary to E company. As the industry leader in material A, E company is the only company who has the material A technologies. Understandably, most of these technologies are confidential as E company's trade secretes. Therefore, it is unrealistic for Dr. Nist to obtain supporting letters from outside E company to comment his innovation technically. However, experts inside E company have supplied supporting letters describing in detail the fundamental importance of Dr. Nist's research to this field. As directors of key technical departments of E company, these experts are authoritative in the development and application of material A. Their testimony provides persuasive evidence of the significant, immediate, and practical impact of Dr. Nist's innovation on the field."

I can provide independent sources commenting on the leading role of my company in the field.

Experts or experienced NIWers, please help. Thanks!
 
Originally posted by nist
For NIW case, it is difficult for me to obtain independent references due to my work. I wonder whether the following explanation is acceptable by BCIS. Experts please help. Thanks!

"Dr. Nist's <<<snip>>>immediate, and practical impact of Dr. Nist's innovation on the field."

I can provide independent sources commenting on the leading role of my company in the field.

Experts or experienced NIWers, please help. Thanks!
Click to expand...

You might as well draw a big target on your chest and yell "Please send me an RFE asking for independent references". Don't do this.

Brian
 
Leroythelion,

The keyword in NIW is National (i.e. it benefits the U.S) therfore if your work is specific to some private company it won't hold any weight. If on the other hand you work for the government then you could get references from them and you may be ok. I would recommend apply in EB12 (Outstanding researcher category) where if you have the basic quals Ph.D. + >= 10 published papers + >=8 references from respected people you have collaborated with + 3 years industry experience you should get an approval provided your company is stable (worked for me !!) . Hope that helps,
berrybird
 
Originally posted by berrybird
Leroythelion,

The keyword in NIW is National (i.e. it benefits the U.S) therfore if your work is specific to some private company it won't hold any weight. If on the other hand you work for the government then you could get references from them and you may be ok. I would recommend apply in EB12 (Outstanding researcher category) where if you have the basic quals Ph.D. + >= 10 published papers + >=8 references from respected people you have collaborated with + 3 years industry experience you should get an approval provided your company is stable (worked for me !!) . Hope that helps,
berrybird
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Berrybird,

Thanks for the advice. I'm already a permanent resident. My advice was not to point out in the petition that he could not get independent references.

Brian
 
Thank you both for the information. For my case, there¡¯s no problem proving the national interests aspects. The major problem is independent recommendation, and the reason is explained above. I don¡¯t know what to say ¨C It seems the only chance would be to ask someone who doesn¡¯t know my work (my company¡¯s secrete formulation) much to say how great my work is, which I guess isn¡¯t a very uncommon thing in cases like this.
Anyways, I don¡¯t expect too much (or maybe any) reasonableness from BCIS.
By the way, Brian, I wonder how you knew about the -- not to point out the inability to obtain independence recommendation issue. Did you know about cases like this before?
I came up with the idea of pointing out this problem after reading about an appeal case which was approved despite of "lack of independence testimony". And I figured my case is similar to that one.
 
Originally posted by nist

By the way, Brian, I wonder how you knew about the -- not to point out the inability to obtain independence recommendation issue. Did you know about cases like this before?
I came up with the idea of pointing out this problem after reading about an appeal case which was approved despite of "lack of independence testimony". And I figured my case is similar to that one.
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Never put anything negative in your petition.

Brian
 
Just my opinion. I think Brian is right, you will be asking for RFE by doing what you said. How many years have you been working for your present company? You may consider to get reference letter from your previous boss, colleagues. Even your present company is the only company you have ever worked for so far, you may still be able to get reference letters from the professors where you receive your education, or professors from your own country.
 
Thanks for the information. The problem is:

Our company developed a 'revolutionary' product, and I developed processes to reduce the cost significantly. This is the first product in the field, and there¡¯re just not many people who know enough about the product, let alone independent ¡®authorities¡¯. The cost was never an issue in this field, because there was no commercial product. In short, people outside the company don't know enough about it.

I suspect there must be similar cases in NIWs, and I wonder what people do in those cases. Just ask people who don¡¯t know much about the product to say how great my work is?
 
Brian,

I was addressing my previous mail to nist so apologize for the mix up.
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"Our company developed a 'revolutionary' product, and I developed processes to reduce the cost significantly"

Nist, I hope this is just a portion of your application. I think your work needs to be recognized outside the company and be in the national interest of the country. If you are basing your whole application on that achievement then it may not be a good case and a LC based category may be better.

Post your complete qualifications and we may be able to give you a better idea.

BB
 
Thanks to all for the information.

My background: PhD, material science, 2 years' exp. 1 patent, 3 papers, ~ 5 citations. All in the same general field, but not closely related to our product. I think my strongest point should be my contribution to my company based on the product. It¡¯s one of the top priorities in my company and may save $ millions to billions for government and commercial customers.

Our company¡¯s new product is attracting quite a bit attention, including articles in Air Force and NASA journals, and in Fortune Small Business.

I was going to use the LC process. But there are a few NASA and Air Force projects that require US GC. All these projects are based on our company's new products. The company just found out that I (and a few other R&D stuff) can't work on them, that's where the hassle for NIW came from.
 
I would love to hire one if he/she can go over my case seriously.

I did get into contact with several. But my feeling is:

They first simply look at the numbers -- papers + citations + patents... then see if they can fit your case into one of their templates. If your case isn't that common, then they just don't seem to care to bother. Some of them just don't seem to have the patience to read my entire situation.

After doing some research on my own, I really doubt they will put in the necessary effort and write a well-thought petition letter for my case, because my case wouldn't be based on the normal numbers.

Any suggestions?
 
Originally posted by nist
I would love to hire one if he/she can go over my case seriously.

I did get into contact with several. But my feeling is:

They first simply look at the numbers -- papers + citations + patents... then see if they can fit your case into one of their templates. If your case isn't that common, then they just don't seem to care to bother. Some of them just don't seem to have the patience to read my entire situation.

After doing some research on my own, I really doubt they will put in the necessary effort and write a well-thought petition letter for my case, because my case wouldn't be based on the normal numbers.

Any suggestions?
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These attorneys may be doing you a favor by not taking your case. Did you actually pay for a consultation with these attorneys? That would be the place to make your case to them.

I'm not sure what it is you want from us here on this message board. You really need competent legal help, especially if you think your case is out of the normal.

Brian
 
Thanks to all for the information.

I think I made my question clear, and I didn't force any one who does not want to help to do anything.

As I said before, I just wanted to give the forum a try, see if I can get some useful information. I think I'll stop here.
 
Originally posted by nist
Thanks to all for the information.

I think I made my question clear, and I didn't force any one who does not want to help to do anything.

As I said before, I just wanted to give the forum a try, see if I can get some useful information. I think I'll stop here.
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Everybody here is eager and happy to help. It just seemed like you were repeatedly looking for some kind of vindication for the tough and narrow road you are choosing to take. The vast majority of us are not professionals in these matters and we can only help so much. Those who are professionals will charge for this kind of advice and will require a complete picture of your case. Good luck with your petition and let us know how things go.

Sincerely,

Brian
 
I don't understand how this got so complicated. But if this has to go on... Ok

First of all, I posted a clear question: Is it appropriate to put in a paragraph in the petition. If you know the answer and are willing to help, please say it and brief explain your reason. Otherwise, please remain quiet. There's no need to use hard-to-relate analogies without explaining how you know the answer, or to point out things like ¡°people here are not professionals, those who are professionals will charge for this kind of advice¡±. No one expects a lot of professionals here. And if you talk about charge, then you might as well just answer every post with a question in this forum with what you¡¯ve said.

It¡¯s also difficult to understand how you came to the conclusion that ¡°It just seemed like you were repeatedly looking for some kind of vindication for the tough and narrow road you are choosing to take.¡± Again, I began with a clear question, and later asked you to explain how you came up with your answer. If you don¡¯t feel like to reply, just remain quiet. Or if you can¡¯t help but say something, you should have answered in your first reply: Don¡¯t do this, because one should not put anything negative in his petition. The hard-to-relate analogies without explanation are just something that should be gotten rid of from this forum.

The posts that follow all resulted from questions raised by people who offered information or comments. No one is asking for any ¡®vindication¡¯ or any comments on ¡®the tough and narrow road¡¯ (again, analogy that should be gotten rid of). Please try to control your desire on saying things that were not asked about.

It is also difficult to understand why you asked me ¡®what it is you want from US¡±. Who is ¡°US¡±? What makes you think that you represent the ¡°US¡± you thought you were representing in your sentence? Everyone here represents him/herself only. And if necessary, I can specifically point out in future posts that my question is not directed to ¡®leroythelion¡¯ and would appreciate it if he does not post a reply (especially no analogies). This may help preventing you from confusing your self with other people who really do help.

I hope this will stop here. Because I don¡¯t have the time to wander around this board everyday.
 
If you are serious about your case, you should spend time browsing historical posts here. You might get pretty good idea about your case.

As for Brian, I hope you don't feel offended. Since you volunteer to stay in this forum even after you got your GC. You have my best regard in this forum.
 
Nist,

I agree with bystander6. Everyone here is trying to help others in their GC application and if you feel some of the negative comment is not warranted or they did not understand your question exactly then this is probably the wrong place for you because this is an open forum.

"Our company¡¯s new product is attracting quite a bit attention, including articles in Air Force and NASA journals, and in Fortune Small Business. "

As to answering your initial question you could replace your desire of having independent references by attaching those articles in Air Force and NASA journals. Having independent references is not a requirement for getting approvals in EB1 and NIW cases but it definitely helps.

BB
 
Originally posted by Bystander6

As for Brian, I hope you don't feel offended. Since you volunteer to stay in this forum even after you got your GC. You have my best regard in this forum.
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Hahaha. No, I'm not offended. Trust me.

I have to stay. I made a commitment to Rajiv to moderate this forum :).

Brian
 
nist,

When you put a question here, anybody can answer it, whether the answer is to your favor or not. If you want to hear a positive answer only, you need to specify that in your question.

I have followed this forum for about a year. Brian is the nicest guy in answering EB1-NIW related questions. So I hope we (you and me) should respect someone like him, whose GC has been approved, and is still staying here to help us (you and me, not himself).

Lao-Yi
 
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