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gabam

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I am posting this thread on behalf of a forum-mate who has trouble posting it himself/herself. His/her forum id is umjesta Please help him/her.

The following is her/his words.

Dear Gabam,

I try to post new thread as the following. But it failed all the time. please help me to post for me. Thank you in advance

I am a DV2014 winner. I registered my dv lottery in october last year. I get married in 2011 and have a son before registration. In the initial entry, I did not include my wife and son information. Do I disqualify with the rule to lottery or not? But I read the new notice of travel.state.gov that I have a chance to bring my family along with me. Please help me to clarify this information as following:

Important Notice – Same-sex spouses of U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs), along with their minor children, are now eligible for the same immigration benefits as opposite-sex spouses. Consular officers at U.S. embassies and consulates will adjudicate their immigrant visa applications upon receipt of an approved I-130 or I-140 petition from USCIS. Diversity Visa applicants may include same-sex spouses in their initial entries or add spouses acquired after their initial registration. Those spouses who will follow-to-join DV 2013 applicants must make application on or before September 30, 2013. Spouses of DV 2014 applicants, even those not included in the initial entry, must apply before September 30, 2014. For further information, please see our FAQ’s.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigra...ypes_1322.html
 
gabam said:
I am posting this thread on behalf of a forum-mate who has trouble posting it himself/herself. His/her forum id is umjesta Please help him/her.

The following is her/his words.

Dear Gabam,

I try to post new thread as the following. But it failed all the time. please help me to post for me. Thank you in advance

I am a DV2014 winner. I registered my dv lottery in october last year. I get married in 2011 and have a son before registration. In the initial entry, I did not include my wife and son information. Do I disqualify with the rule to lottery or not? But I read the new notice of travel.state.gov that I have a chance to bring my family along with me. Please help me to clarify this information as following:

Important Notice – Same-sex spouses of U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs), along with their minor children, are now eligible for the same immigration benefits as opposite-sex spouses. Consular officers at U.S. embassies and consulates will adjudicate their immigrant visa applications upon receipt of an approved I-130 or I-140 petition from USCIS. Diversity Visa applicants may include same-sex spouses in their initial entries or add spouses acquired after their initial registration. Those spouses who will follow-to-join DV 2013 applicants must make application on or before September 30, 2013. Spouses of DV 2014 applicants, even those not included in the initial entry, must apply before September 30, 2014. For further information, please see our FAQ’s.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigra...ypes_1322.html
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gabam said:
I am posting this thread on behalf of a forum-mate who has trouble posting it himself/herself. His/her forum id is umjesta Please help him/her.

The following is her/his words.

Dear Gabam,

I try to post new thread as the following. But it failed all the time. please help me to post for me. Thank you in advance

I am a DV2014 winner. I registered my dv lottery in october last year. I get married in 2011 and have a son before registration. In the initial entry, I did not include my wife and son information. Do I disqualify with the rule to lottery or not? But I read the new notice of travel.state.gov that I have a chance to bring my family along with me. Please help me to clarify this information as following:

Important Notice – Same-sex spouses of U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs), along with their minor children, are now eligible for the same immigration benefits as opposite-sex spouses. Consular officers at U.S. embassies and consulates will adjudicate their immigrant visa applications upon receipt of an approved I-130 or I-140 petition from USCIS. Diversity Visa applicants may include same-sex spouses in their initial entries or add spouses acquired after their initial registration. Those spouses who will follow-to-join DV 2013 applicants must make application on or before September 30, 2013. Spouses of DV 2014 applicants, even those not included in the initial entry, must apply before September 30, 2014. For further information, please see our FAQ’s.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigra...ypes_1322.html
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My take on this issue is that he cannot include his family member when he decides to send his form to kcc because according to his statement he was married with kid when he entered for dv2014 but refused or played as a single entrant.At the interview the CO will ask him series of question about his family if he eventually send to kcc as a family selectee.If he claimed to be married during his interview,he would be ask why he did not include his family at first instance before the selection.

And if he claimed that he got married after the dv result,the marraige date and age of his child will be compare with the time he entered for the lottery.

However,the third paragraph is not applicable to his own case, because the rule is only applicable to same sex marraige.

So this is my advise,in order not to lose this great chance,he should stick to his single entrant status.

I am not a lawyer,this is just my opinion.
 
Is this person in a same sex relationship? The new notice will only be applicable to this person if he/she is married to a same sex partner. Even at that though, the son can no longer be included in the application if he/she wants to have a successful outcome. Failure to list the child at the time of registration is ground for disqualification as it is.

If the OP is not in a same sex relationship, the OP does NOT have any chance of having a successful interview. If the OP has already sent DS-230 forms for the wife and kid, the OP will be disqualified at the time of the interview.
 
I think we have discussed this before. My first reaction is that because the wife and son were not "decalred" in the initial application then the case will be disqualified. The new notice regarding same sex spouses has those last couple of sentances and I see the reason for wanting clarification - but since the rules have changed there is a very valid reason why someone with a same sex spouse did not originally declare their partner. In the case of your forum-mate, I cannot understand why the wife and child were not declared.

The rules state:-

"On your entry, you must list your spouse (husband or wife), and all living unmarried children under
21 years of age, regardless of whether or not they are living with you or intend to accompany or follow to
join you should you immigrate to the United States, with the exception of children who are already U.S.
citizens or Lawful Permanent Residents. A spouse or child who is already a U.S. citizen or a Lawful
Permanent Resident will not require or be issued a DV visa. Failure to comply with this instruction can
result in the disqualification of your entry."

That last sentence is not categoric so there might be a chance, but the entrant would have to have a very good reason why they (presumably) lied and entered as single when they were in fact married. I would say that would normally cause disqualification.
 
That last sentence is not categoric so there might be a chance, but the entrant would have to have a very good reason why they (presumably) lied and entered as single when they were in fact married. I would say that would normally cause disqualification.
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I am 100% certain this person has no chance of succeeding if the spouse and kid are now included. The last paragraph of the Notice in question cannot be read in isolation. It's a clear reference to those in same sex relationships, IMO, which the first sentence in the paragraph clearly references.
 
INA 9 FAM 42.33 N6.6(c) Derivative Status clearly addresses issues such as the OP's:

You must deny the applications of registrants who list on their Form DS-230, Application for Immigrant Visa and Alien Registration, or their Form DS-260, Online Application for Immigrant Visa and Alien Registration, a spouse or child who was not included in their initial entry, unless such spouse or child was acquired subsequent to submission of qualifying DV entry.
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Admittedly Section D of the same INA 9 FAM 42.33 N6.6 hints at the possibility of such a case meeting with a possible outcome, where it says:

If post believes a case merits issuance despite apparent failure to comply with this instruction, post can submit the case for an advisory opinion (AO) to the Advisory Opinions Division (CA/VO/L/A).
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I highly doubt the CO will go as far as taking this route for the OP. The OP would need to have a highly compelling reason as to why the wife and son were not originally listed in order to convince the CO to submit the case for an advisory opinion.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87838.pdf
 
Sm1smom said:
I am 100% certain this person has no chance of succeeding if the spouse and kid are now included. The last paragraph of the Notice in question cannot be read in isolation. It's a clear reference to those in same sex relationships, IMO, which the first sentence in the paragraph clearly references.
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Yes I agree that the same sex notice cannot be used (unless it is a same sex relationship). So lifting the bit they want to use from that notice will not work.

However, the bit that I thought may not be categoric was from the wording of the DV2014 rules which I quoted above. The last sentence says "Failure to comply with this instruction can result in the disqualification of your entry."

This contrast with the DV2015 rules (below) where they seem to have removed the ambiguity (between can and will) although I have to say I thought, like you say, it was an automatic disqualification.

"Current marital status – Unmarried, married, divorced, widowed, or legally separated. Enter the
name, date of birth, gender, city/town of birth, country of birth of your spouse, and a photograph of
your spouse meeting the same technical specifications as your photo.
Failure to list your eligible spouse will result in disqualification of the principal applicant and
refusal of all visas in the case at the time of the visa interview. You must list your spouse here
even if you plan to be divorced before you apply for a visa. A spouse who is already a U.S. citizen
or a Lawful Permanent Resident will not require or be issued a DV visa, though you will not be
penalized if you list them on your entry form. See the Frequently Asked Questions for more
information about family members."
 
Sm1smom said:
INA 9 FAM 42.33 N6.6(c) Derivative Status clearly addresses issues such as the OP's:



Admittedly Section D of the same INA 9 FAM 42.33 N6.6 hints at the possibility of such a case meeting with a possible outcome, where it says:



I highly doubt the CO will go as far as taking this route for the OP. The OP would need to have a highly compelling reason as to why the wife and son were not originally listed in order to convince the CO to submit the case for an advisory opinion.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87838.pdf
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Ahhh - you have explained the slight chance they appear to have in the DV2014 instructions. For me, the only justifiable excuse for something like this would be where the entrant believed they would be in some significant peril if they disclosed a marriage that was forbidden on religious or cultural grounds. For example I think we had a case discussed here where the entrant was nervous of how to do the interviews without alerting people in his own country that he was married to someone from a different country. I daresay religious/tribal/country rules might therefore cause a legitimate fear of this type and level.
 
OK - a bit obsessed with this one now.... a bit more. This is from the FAQ for DV2015. It seems legal separation at the time of the original eDV entry could also be used to explain the omission of the spouse - however in this case the omission of the child (if later included on the application) could (would) result in disqualification of all applicants.

"13. What family members must I include in my DV entry?
Spouse: You must list your spouse (husband or wife) regardless of whether or not he/she is living with you or
intends to immigrate to the United States. You must list your spouse even if you are currently separated from
him/her, unless you are legally separated (i.e., there is a written agreement recognized by a court or a court
order). If you are legally separated, you do not have to list your spouse, though you will not be penalized if
you do so. If you are divorced or your spouse is deceased, you do not have to list your former spouse.
Children: You must list ALL your living children who are unmarried and under 21 years of age at the time of
your initial E-DV entry, whether they are your natural children, your stepchildren (even if you are now
divorced from that child’s parent), your spouse’s children, or children you have formally adopted in
accordance with the laws of your country. List all children under 21 years of age at the time of your electronic
entry, even if they no longer reside with you or you do not intend for them to immigrate under the DV
program. You are not required to list children who are already U.S. citizens or Lawful Permanent Residents,
though you will not be penalized if you do include them.
Parents and siblings of the entrant are ineligible to receive DV visas as dependents, and should not be
included in your entry.
If you list family members on your entry, they are not required to apply for a visa or to immigrate or travel
with you. However, if you fail to include an eligible dependent on your original entry and later list them on
your visa application forms, your case will be disqualified and none of you will be eligible for a visa. This only
applies to those who were family members at the time the original application was submitted, not those
acquired at a later date. Your spouse, if eligible to enter, may still submit a separate entry even though he or
she is listed on your entry, as long as both entries include details on all dependents in your family (see FAQ
#12 above)."
 
britsimon said:
Ahhh - you have explained the slight chance they appear to have in the DV2014 instructions. For me, the only justifiable excuse for something like this would be where the entrant believed they would be in some significant peril if they disclosed a marriage that was forbidden on religious or cultural grounds. For example I think we had a case discussed here where the entrant was nervous of how to do the interviews without alerting people in his own country that he was married to someone from a different country. I daresay religious/tribal/country rules might therefore cause a legitimate fear of this type and level.
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Yes, I agree. But the fact that the child also wasn't listed on the initial application probably renders this excuse moot.
 
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britsimon said:
This contrast with the DV2015 rules (below) where they seem to have removed the ambiguity (between can and will) although I have to say I thought, like you say, it was an automatic disqualification.

"Current marital status – Unmarried, married, divorced, widowed, or legally separated. Enter the
name, date of birth, gender, city/town of birth, country of birth of your spouse, and a photograph of
your spouse meeting the same technical specifications as your photo.
Failure to list your eligible spouse will result in disqualification of the principal applicant and
refusal of all visas in the case at the time of the visa interview. You must list your spouse here
even if you plan to be divorced before you apply for a visa. A spouse who is already a U.S. citizen
or a Lawful Permanent Resident will not require or be issued a DV visa, though you will not be
penalized if you list them on your entry form. See the Frequently Asked Questions for more
information about family members."
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I can't find them now but I am 100% certain this was in the rules for previous lotteries too - sometimes the intro wording is not as detailed as the instructions per question.

And in any case re the separation thing, I don't see how a change in wording for later DVs will help an earlier one. For one thing it would be unfair on anyone already denied on the basis of previous rules.

If I misinterpreted anything forgive me - been a long day and I'm very tired :)
 
Sorry for my ignorance, since I know little about US immigration laws. Though this applicant entered as single when indeed he's married which is a cause for disqualification . but how does the embassy or CO ascertain that the information provided on application is false? Is it that the embassy first does a background check on you or what? if the latter is the case, then I wonder how a cousin of mine who is currently in the US with his wife and second child were granted visas even though he refused to list his first child who's currently in his home country in all applications and was never detected .
 
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What is being discussed here is the possibility (or not) of the applicant being able to include his wife and son at this stage since he did not include them in his original eDV application. He most likely would be ok if he continues processing as 'single' but his wife and kid cannot benefit from his selection.

Regarding your coysin's case the time he's likely to run into trouble with the omission of his kid is if he ever tries to sponsor the kid for a GC years down the road. He could be accused of having fraudulently obtained his own GC since he withheld material information. For as long as he doesn't try to sponsor the kid, he should be ok.

Ghanaba10 said:
Sorry for my ignorance, since I know little about US immigration laws. Though this applicant entered as single when indeed he's married which is a cause for disqualification . but how does the embassy or CO ascertain that the information provided on application is false? Is it that the embassy first does a background check on you or what? if the latter is the case, then I wonder how a cousin of mine who is currently in the US with his wife and second child were granted visas even though he refused to list his first child who's currently in his home country in all applications and was never detected .
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SusieQQQ said:
I can't find them now but I am 100% certain this was in the rules for previous lotteries too - sometimes the intro wording is not as detailed as the instructions per question.

And in any case re the separation thing, I don't see how a change in wording for later DVs will help an earlier one. For one thing it would be unfair on anyone already denied on the basis of previous rules.

If I misinterpreted anything forgive me - been a long day and I'm very tired :)
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Yeah I agree - the instructions from 2014 had similar sttronger wording in the FAQ. It says - "However, if you include an eligible dependent on your visa application forms that you failed to include on your original entry, your case will be disqualified"

I bolded the will.

I had posted the excerpt from the DV2014 instructions earlier - link below for reference. The 2014 instructions had the (very slight) ambiguity in the main instructions and also the exception for legally separated. That there was ambiguity at all was a surprise to me, although Sm1smom found the support for exceptions in the FAM rules (which is what really controls the process as opposed to the instructions docs). I think that exception would be only for the peril cases I mentioned earlier - and I'm sure that exception isn't a new thing.

The legal separation route would of course need to be supported by court papers of the legal separation that predated the eDV entry.


http://travel.state.gov/pdf/DV_2014_Instructions.pdf
 
Ghanaba10 said:
Sorry for my ignorance, since I know little about US immigration laws. Though this applicant entered as single when indeed he's married which is a cause for disqualification . but how does the embassy or CO ascertain that the information provided on application is false? Is it that the embassy first does a background check on you or what? if the latter is the case, then I wonder how a cousin of mine who is currently in the US with his wife and second child were granted visas even though he refused to list his first child who's currently in his home country in all applications and was never detected .
Click to expand...

As above what sm1smom said, but it also seems to depend what country they are from/how thoroughly they do the background checks, I have heard of a case of a wife and children not being listed on the application being discovered through the background check.

I must admit I find it hard not to be judgemental about people who effectively abandon their children, so maybe I should abandon this reply.
 
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