N-400 application denied

H

h90000

Registered Users (C)
This is my father's N-400 app that was denied, below are the details:

Timeline:
Employment based GC approved on 06/06 (GC application was filed by a gas station for a Mechanic)
Applied N-400 on 04/2011
Interview Oct 2011 - Request for evidence by USCIS.
N-400 denial - Aug 6 2013.
He stopped working due to kidney failure since 01/2008 and has been under dialysis since.


Evidence requested:

At the time of interview he was asked the place, address and supervisor's name he worked for as a mechanic back in his country and he couldn’t answer it correctly. I guess he should have prepared more seriously but thinking they won’t bother about anything since he has been resident for 5 years he only prepared for the testing questions. Now the company he worked for back in his country had gone bankrupt and the owner fled the country. He got his supervisor to write a sworn affidavit stating he worked with him at this workplace for mentioned time period and what happened to the company.

N-400 was denied stating “no official records from the company were submitted”.

Now my mom applied for N-400 same time and interview was scheduled for the same day but obviously with a different officer. This officer also asked for evidence which was a marriage certificate. We mailed the marriage certificate the next day and after 6 months her oath was scheduled and citizenship was awarded. I had applied as well after 3 month of their application since that was the timeframe of my green card. I was given citizenship as well.

Now I was reading on the forums that if N-400 is denied that they might start removal proceedings (In this case reason - “not met requirement of having been lawfully admitted permanent resident).
1. How does this usually happen? Do we just wait and watch to receive this letter or if there is a way to know if they will be doing this?
2. Do you think they will revoke my mom’s citizenship and mine since we are derivatives?
Thank you for taking the time to read this long post, I appreciate any advice.
 
Employment based green cards are awarded to highly qualified (at least a bachelor's degree)foreign workers who have skills not easily found amoung US citizens/legal residents. (At least that is the premise).

It is difficult to see how a mechanic at a gas station can qualify for employment based green card.
 
through employer

it was through an approved employment visa which was based on his approved Labor certificate. This was filed back in 2001-2002. There was some sort of provision then I guess if your employer sponsors you a green card.
DOL approved form ETA 750 and employer filed I-140.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The question still remains - how a position for auto mechanic can qualify for a employment based green card in the first place. The position does not pass the basic smell test for green cards.
Does your father have a bachelor's degree or equivalent in automotive technology? Does he have any specialized skills in auto engineering? I think USCIS woke up to the green card issue when they reviewed his immigration history for N-400 and then questioned your father about it.
 
he does have a bachelors degree but not in automotive nor does he have any specialized engineering certificate. I know people who have gotten green card being a cook at a restaurant, auto mechanic and being a housekeeper/cook at someones house. These cases were all filed in 2000. And no they didn't have any degree. There was some provision made i guess that would let employers apply for their "skilled workers" at that time. I dont know the full details though. Hope someone can shed some light.
Thank you
 
nkm-oct23 said:
The question still remains - how a position for auto mechanic can qualify for a employment based green card in the first place. The position does not pass the basic smell test for green cards.
Click to expand...

Up to 10,000 of the 140,000 annual quota for EB green cards may be granted to "other workers", i.e. those who don't meet the usual criteria of bachelors degree or other high levels of education/experience.
 
I believe USCIS is questioning his green card itself, that is why he was asked about his previous experience (which he would have claimed on his I-140).
 
h90000 said:
N-400 was denied stating “no official records from the company were submitted”.
...
Now I was reading on the forums that if N-400 is denied that they might start removal proceedings
Click to expand...

I think it's too late for them to do that, because of the 5-year statute of limitations. If no official company records were submitted during the green card process, USCIS already knew that when they approved the green card in 2006. So they can't initiate removal on that basis now, when it's more than 5 years after GC approval. And his inability to obtain records at this time, from a company outside the US which has since gone out of business, is not grounds for deportation.

Your father may be able to file a successful Motion to Reopen and be granted citizenship if he can show that he and the employer legitimately met the necessary criteria for him to be eligible for the green card. However, that would require him to obtain the documents including I-140 and Labor Certification applications either from the employer who filed it or by filing an FOIA request to obtain his A-file. Once those documents are obtained, it would be advisable to show it to a lawyer to discuss the prospects for appeal.

2. Do you think they will revoke my mom’s citizenship and mine since we are derivatives?
Click to expand...
Very unlikely. Even if they did that, the worst case is that you'd be reverted to permanent resident status. You and your mother committed no fraud, and if any documentation was missing from your father's green card application, the fact that it was missing was known to INS when he applied for his green card and it came to the attention of USCIS again with his naturalization application, yet they approved your citizenship anyway.
 
I think the OP may be talking about labor substitution which I think was an available option at that time.

SA.
 
I don't think there is any kind of statutory limitation for them to investigate fraudulent applications - they can take citizenship or green card from everyone that they can prove was lying on their application. There were many cases like this, many of which were in healthcare profession. I remember reading about a case where a woman was arrested during her interview, because she didn't follow all required steps for obtaining the license while on working visa - she later got employment based GC. She was required to work certain number of hours while studying for her license but she actually did not work at the time. She didn't even know she did anything wrong - when they asked her how many hours per week she was working at the time, she said none. So - according to them, the initial visa supposed to be revoked, automatically meaning she didn't have the right to stay here and apply for GC. I don't think they actually initiate investigations into GC process without people applying for citizenship (or into visas until people apply for GC and AOS). I got my GC through DV and they still checked all information I submitted during initial CP interview for GC.

As for the case above, it's logical to me they want to check the bases on which the initial visa was issued. They can ask me right now where I worked 20 years ago, dates and description - I don't have any problems answering that question. If you were telling the truth on the first place, you shouldn't have any problems providing the very same information again regardless of how many years have passed. Considering that in this case they didn't take any actions during the interview, I don't think they will take any actions now either. He should try to re-open the case or apply again - after he checks (and remembers xoxo) all information from the initial application and get all paperwork from previous employer. My opinion is based on the information provided - but rarely people provide all details, we basically don't know if there were any false information provided to USCIS to begin with.
 
==> Now I was reading on the forums that if N-400 is denied that they might start removal proceedings (In this case reason - “not met requirement of having been lawfully admitted permanent resident).

You are just assuming the above or did you receive a letter from CIS? Forums usually have people who are stuck with an issue so you will hear about so many problems ... but the odds of problems actually happening to individuals are low.

If they just denied and did not start any removal proceedings, all that means is that they rejected your (father's) current application but no other action was taken. Of course other actions may happen over time. However, the N400 denial does not seem out of ordinary. They reject many applications without doing anything more.

If CIS takes further action, you do have a problem.
If CIS does not take action, just sit tight and apply after a few years.

After a few years, he might be able to even apply as a spouse of a citizen, right? Work history does not need to be looked at in such filings.

==> Use a lawyer if CIS takes action, or if re-filing.

In this case, your father stopped working 18 months after he got the green card and that is a problem. Whatever you may say about portability is meaningless if the reason for which the person was admitted is not being adhered to. CIS has reasons to be suspicious.
 
Zee Zee said:
I don't think there is any kind of statutory limitation for them to investigate fraudulent applications - they can take citizenship or green card from everyone that they can prove was lying on their application.
Click to expand...

However, there is a difference between fraud and incomplete evidence. If he actually had the relevant experience but evidence of it wasn't submitted during the green card application, that's not fraud, neither is his current inability to obtain those records.

Approving his green card without that evidence is a USCIS mistake, and now it's too late to revoke his green card based on that mistake, although they can still deny his naturalization because of it.

They can ask me right now where I worked 20 years ago, dates and description - I don't have any problems answering that question.
Click to expand...
They didn't just ask him the name of the business, they asked for the address of the place and the name of his supervisor. I don't remember the names of all my supervisors from 10+ years ago, and I don't remember the addresses of the places I worked before moving to the US.
 
Thank you

Thank you Jackolantern, sanjoseaug20, Zee Zee, StonedAnt and nkm-oct23, I really appreciate all your input.
 
Jackolantern said:
However, there is a difference between fraud and incomplete evidence. If he actually had the relevant experience but evidence of it wasn't submitted during the green card application, that's not fraud, neither is his current inability to obtain those records.
Click to expand...

I might not have been able to explain everything in one post, I apologize for that. He had submitted the evidence of him working at that company when he applied for his labor. It was a letter from the manager of the company stating he has worked there for the mentioned time period mentioned. It was a complete paperwork.

When he was asked to say all the details about his work back home and he couldn't the interviewing officer concluded that he produced a fake paper. Hence he wanted a proof that he really worked for them. It was unfortunate that the company is shut down and we cannot produce any official documents. The American consular office could definitely investigate and find out about the company. It took 2 years for them to close the case and all the concluded was he couldn't submit any official documents (like paystubs and hr documents - which did not exist in 3rd world countries anyways), hence his application is denied.


Jackolantern said:
They didn't just ask him the name of the business, they asked for the address of the place and the name of his supervisor. I don't remember the names of all my supervisors from 10+ years ago, and I don't remember the addresses of the places I worked before moving to the US.
Click to expand...
Exactly, he had worked for the company in 1998 and its been 15 years since. i guess he should have done his homework and reviewed all paperwork before going for the interview but then again who knew they would bring up a question that should have been asked while giving him a PR.

They have not mentioned anything about removal proceeding or anything like that on the denial letter. All they have mentioned is that the case can be repealed at the court for hearing within 30 days.
I just hope they have not done anything or filed for proceeding against him or us.
 
h90000 said:
When he was asked to say all the details about his work back home and he couldn't the interviewing officer concluded that he produced a fake paper.
Click to expand...

Did he answer anything correctly about his employment there? Did he get the name of the company right? What did he answer wrong or was unable to answer?
 
I don't understand why USCIS will delay a case like this. Even (not saying that is true) if your father somehow misrepresented something on the GC process, there are status of limitations. People move and die , companies close etc. Sounds very petty (unless they have some type of proof the sponsor was committing massive misrepresentations with a lot of LC's being compromised.).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top