Mui

9

9Siberians

New Member
Hello,

my son is German and would like to apply for his US citizenship as he would like to join the US Army. We filled out the citizenship form, and there was a question about "have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested"?

He got an MUI and went to court for this, but the judge said he had to take class, and after finishing the class the MUI would be erased from his records.

My question is, should he answer yes to this question? He did not go to jail. Is this considered a crime or offense?

Any information is greatly appreciated!

Thank you and have a great day :)
 
9Siberians said:
my son is German and would like to apply for his US citizenship as he would like to join the US Army. We filled out the citizenship form, and there was a question about "have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested"?

He got an MUI and went to court for this, but the judge said he had to take class, and after finishing the class the MUI would be erased from his records.

My question is, should he answer yes to this question? He did not go to jail. Is this considered a crime or offense?
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First of all--what is his current status in the USA? If he has his green card, then he does NOT need citizenship to join the military. He can enlist as a GC holder and get his citizenship later. If he does NOT have his GC already then he won't qualify either to join the military or get citizenship. So I'm not clear how applying for citizenship can help him in joining the military.

Second--what is 'MUI'? I'm assuming it is something similar to DUI (driving under the influence) or BUI (boating under the influence)--but I've never heard specifically of MUI. If he went to court, though, this was a crime for which he WAS arrested and should be disclosed as such. Even if he never went to jail, he was likely detained, albeit briefly, by the authorities and that constitutes an arrest. The later expungement/dismissal does NOT permit him to avoid mentioning the arrest for immigration purposes but if he can show proof of disposition including the expungement/dismissal this may help him in presenting his case in a favorable light.

Typically people don't mention crimes for which they were NOT arrested. The point of that question is that if someone is subsequently convicted of a crime occurring before the N-400 was filed, but for which they weren't arrested until after the N-400 was filed, they can be denaturalized for lying. That question doesn't cover the situation where someone was already before a judge.
 
Others can help you with your actual questions better than I can, however, in case you didn't know this: If your son doesn't want to lose his German citizenship, he first needs to apply for "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung" and this needs to be approved prior to taking the oath to become a US citizenship.
 
CalGreenCard,

Couple of comments to your reply.

CalGreenCard said:
First of all--what is his current status in the USA? If he has his green card, then he does NOT need citizenship to join the military. He can enlist as a GC holder and get his citizenship later.

Second--what is 'MUI'? I'm assuming it is something similar to DUI (driving under the influence) or BUI (boating under the influence)
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He would be able to enlist as a GC, but if he wants to become an officer, he would need to be USC.

Like DUI and BUI, is there also a term called FUI :) Flying under influence
 
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CalGreenCard said:
First of all--what is his current status in the USA? If he has his green card, then he does NOT need citizenship to join the military. He can enlist as a GC holder and get his citizenship later. If he does NOT have his GC already then he won't qualify either to join the military or get citizenship. So I'm not clear how applying for citizenship can help him in joining the military.

Second--what is 'MUI'? I'm assuming it is something similar to DUI (driving under the influence) or BUI (boating under the influence)--but I've never heard specifically of MUI. If he went to court, though, this was a crime for which he WAS arrested and should be disclosed as such. Even if he never went to jail, he was likely detained, albeit briefly, by the authorities and that constitutes an arrest. The later expungement/dismissal does NOT permit him to avoid mentioning the arrest for immigration purposes but if he can show proof of disposition including the expungement/dismissal this may help him in presenting his case in a favorable light.

Typically people don't mention crimes for which they were NOT arrested. The point of that question is that if someone is subsequently convicted of a crime occurring before the N-400 was filed, but for which they weren't arrested until after the N-400 was filed, they can be denaturalized for lying. That question doesn't cover the situation where someone was already before a judge.
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Thank you so much for your reply! An MUI is minor under the influence. He went to a party, had a few beers (but was not drunk), and the police showed up and gave everybody a ticket for MUI.

He wants to become a citizen so he can enter the Army as an officer. He is working on his bachelor degree right, and once finished, he wants to joint the Army.
 
Igmu said:
Others can help you with your actual questions better than I can, however, in case you didn't know this: If your son doesn't want to lose his German citizenship, he first needs to apply for "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung" and this needs to be approved prior to taking the oath to become a US citizenship.
Click to expand...

Thank you :). Yes, I knew this. Since he has been living in the US since his 6th birthday, and he won't go back to Germany, it won't matter for him. For us, his parents, it does matter.

Oh, and I forgot to mention....he does have a greencard since 2001.

Thank you :)
 
9Siberians said:
Thank you so much for your reply! An MUI is minor under the influence. He went to a party, had a few beers (but was not drunk), and the police showed up and gave everybody a ticket for MUI.
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Ah---this is clearer now. I still think this needs to be disclosed on the N-400. You could consult with a criminal defense attorney to determine for sure whether this is considered a criminal matter. However I think for N-400 purposes it is. There is some debate as to whether/how minor traffic infractions should be disclosed. However this isn't a traffic matter and it is pretty clear that alcohol-related incidents DO need to be disclosed. Moreover, when a judge imposes some constraints on a person's freedom as a punishment (as opposed to just a fine), that is another indication that it is considered a criminal matter.

One incident of this kind won't automatically bar him from citizenship. And if he gets this expunged/dismissed, and can show proof of this disposition, that should help in convincing the officer to exercise discretion and approve the case.
 
9Siberians said:
and he won't go back to Germany,
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This is another reason--in addition to wanting to become an officer--why he should be applying for US citizenship. Hopefully this MUI will be his first and last contact with the criminal justice system. However it underscores that one's US status is vulnerable as long as one has only a GC. Getting citizenship definitely removes one very negative potential consequence of a criminal charge--albeit there are of course other consequences to criminal activity even for citizens.

Also IMHO he should definitely consider jumping through the hoops to retain German citizenship if that is possible for him (I don't know German law) given his brush with the law. There's an increasing police state mentality here in the USA that I find rather disturbing. Even if he jumps through all the hoops required by the court--and it sounds he has/will--and is never in trouble again, I'd be nervous that this incident may come back to haunt him if current trends continue. Having other options (eg Germany/Europe) is definitely not a bad thing to have. I myself would probably not have naturalized if it meant giving up my other citizenships.
 
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