Lofgren Gives USCIS 3 Days To Answer Questions

[sachatur]

Until actual approval takes place, there is the potential for a visa number to be returned to the available pool, and a visa number is not counted as "used" until approval. So it is not correct for them to say that they have actually used all the visas, unless they have applied all those numbers to actual approvals. They should have adjusted (perhaps retrogressed) the date based on the ages of the pending and preallocated cases, not set everything to 'U'.

I agreee, and that leads me to believe that there will inevitably be:
1. Visa numbers wasted, and/or
2. A limited-availability bulletin for August or, more likely, September 2007 (In which case per-country limits would still not apply, and that is a whole other situation the USCIS/DOS would rather not get into, and so choose to let sleeping dogs lie).

 

[paradkaram]

I am just wondering any idea if how EB2 India PD 8/2005 got approved?

I was under the impression that the USCIS will only approve your GC if you PD was current? Am i missing anything here guys?

any comments by anybody..

sachatur nothing against you. dont misunderstand me.

 

[Jackolantern]

Bottom line: They may have flirted with, and even crossed, per-country limits in June, but it is impossible to conclude either way without more data.

Of course, at this time we are speculating and won't know until the true facts come out. But I would bet money that when the facts come out it will show that they exceeded the country quota and/or did inappropriate spillovers from EB1 India to EB2 and EB3 in June.

I am also interested to find out the truth behind the rumor that USCIS has been returning unused visa numbers to the DOS, and what the consequences of that will be (reopening of some categories in the August bulletin)?

 

[sachatur]

I am just wondering any idea if how EB2 India PD 8/2005 got approved?

I was under the impression that the USCIS will only approve your GC if you PD was current? Am i missing anything here guys?

any comments by anybody..

sachatur nothing against you. dont misunderstand me.

No offense taken. I would be bemused too, if I didn't understand the process.

I don't think many people understand that visa allocations for documentarily-qualified applications are actually made at the time a bulletin is released.
And even otherwise, if they worked on July 1st, my PD WAS CURRENT on July 1st, and a visa may have been allotted on July 1st.

Again, I have interpreted a congressional briefing by Charles Oppenheim, Chief, Immigrant Control and Reporting Division, Visa services office of the DOS here:
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showpost.php?p=1716172&postcount=3

 

[perm_lc]

When DOS made “current” for July, it is perfectly within their procedure of determining “current” or “oversubscribed”. When DOS checked with USCIS on first week of June (before July VB on June 12), the available remaining visa numbers are higher than the documentarily qualified applicants (pre-adjudicated 485) pending with USCIS as on June first week. I think it may be 10K to 15K excess than pending documentarily qualified 485s. It is, then, absolutely right in the DOS point that to make all category “current”, as July is the beginning of last quarter. However, there is no procedural mechanism to stop the flooding of about 500K to 700K new 485s on account of “current” to consume remaining 10K to 15K EB visas. Even if they accept 500K to 700K new 485s in July, unless they make 10 to 15K documentarily qualified applicants by Sep 30th, from new filings in July, the 10 to 15K might get wasted. I doubt they will even give receipt notice to all 700K 485s by Sep 30. Whatever, USCIS did on July 1 is perfectly meaning full to avoid wasting of visa numbers (pre-allocation). They might have violated some existing procedure to avoid wastage. They were helping us. Now they are returning back the numbers to DOS, due to the “great” work of lawyers and others. Now, once again we are going to loose EB visa numbers. The ultimate victims are immigrants, not USCIS, due to the action of others.

This is what I found in DOS testimony to congress.

http://www.aila.org/content/default.aspx?docid=22801


“If there are sufficient numbers in a particular category to satisfy all reported documentarily qualified demand, the category is considered "Current." For example: If the monthly allocation target is 10,000, and we only have 5,000 applicants, the category can be "Current.”

Applicants entitled to immigrant status become documentarily qualified at their own initiative and convenience. By no means has every applicant with a priority date earlier than a prevailing cut-off date been processed for final visa action. On the contrary, visa allotments are made only on the basis of the total applicants reported “documentarily qualified” (or, theoretically ready for interview) each month. Demand for visa numbers can fluctuate from one month to another, with the inevitable impact on cut-off dates.

If an applicant is reported documentarily qualified but allocation of a visa number is not possible because of a visa availability cut-off date, the demand is recorded at VO and an allocation is made as soon as the applicable cut-off date advances beyond the applicant's priority date. There is no need for such applicant to be reported a second time.

 

[Jackolantern]

“If there are sufficient numbers in a particular category to satisfy all reported documentarily qualified demand, the category is considered "Current." For example: If the monthly allocation target is 10,000, and we only have 5,000 applicants, the category can be "Current.”

Maybe it was legitimate to make things "all current" based on the USCIS informing the DOS of the number of "documentarily qualified" applicants.

However, they have never made a category unavailable after the start of the month in which the bulletin applies. If a category runs out, they continue to accept (but not approve) applications until the end of the month. They never did this before, and they never gave any official warning of planning to do that, so people have come to depend and plan on that and had a legitimate expectation of being able to file I-485 at the start of July.

And those fast approvals were because they wanted to stop the flood of new 485s, not because they wanted to help anybody.

 

[perm_lc]

Maybe it was legitimate to make things "all current" based on the USCIS informing the DOS of the number of "documentarily qualified" applicants.

However, they have never made a category unavailable after the start of the month in which the bulletin applies. If a category runs out, they continue to accept (but not approve) applications until the end of the month. They never did this before, and they never gave any official warning of planning to do that, so people have come to depend and plan on that and had a legitimate expectation of being able to file I-485 at the start of July.

And those fast approvals were because they wanted to stop the flood of new 485s, not because they wanted to help anybody.

Most of us are in confusion between law and procedure/rules. DOS and CIS have authority to protect INA. The visa bulletin is one of the procedures to protect the INA. If you see the INA sections, 201, 202, 203, 204 or 245 that controls the immigration and AOS, there is no law saying that every month DOS must publish only one visa bulletin and accept all 485s if it says current. DOS/CIS has a statutory power to limit the acceptance and approval of 485s to meet the annual limitation. VB is the tool used to control the numbers. Though VB is a well established procedure to control the numbers for 20 to 30 years, VB is not a right or law. They can modify the procedure, without much public notice to protect the law. In this case, both CIS/DOS has given the advanced notice to customers on July 2 it self. They can violate the procedure to protect the law. However, they can not violate the law, to protect the procedure. Download and hear the MP3 file of Rajiv’s opinion about this VB fiasco. If DOS/CIS anticipates 500K to 700K new applications on account of “current”, they have statutory power to reject the excess application to meet 140K application per year.

 

[Madboy]

In this case, both CIS/DOS has given the advanced notice to customers on July 2 it self.

Are you kidding? Advance notice should be given prior to July 1st.

They can violate the procedure to protect the law. However, they can not violate the law, to protect the procedure.

There were few instances where they issued receipt numbers for the entire month even when visa numbers are not available. (FYI: Receipt numbers are not Visa numbers.) Where did the law go that time?

 

[Jackolantern]

Most of us are in confusion between law and procedure/rules. DOS and CIS have authority to protect INA. The visa bulletin is one of the procedures to protect the INA. If you see the INA sections, 201, 202, 203, 204 or 245 that controls the immigration and AOS, there is no law saying that every month DOS must publish only one visa bulletin and accept all 485s if it says current. DOS/CIS has a statutory power to limit the acceptance and approval of 485s to meet the annual limitation. VB is the tool used to control the numbers. Though VB is a well established procedure to control the numbers for 20 to 30 years, VB is not a right or law. They can modify the procedure, without much public notice to protect the law. In this case, both CIS/DOS has given the advanced notice to customers on July 2 it self. They can violate the procedure to protect the law. However, they can not violate the law, to protect the procedure. Download and hear the MP3 file of Rajiv’s opinion about this VB fiasco. If DOS/CIS anticipates 500K to 700K new applications on account of “current”, they have statutory power to reject the excess application to meet 140K application per year.

For the past 30 years they would continue to accept I-485s when the quota ran out in the middle of the month. If that is violating the law, it would have been stopped a long time ago.

Procedure, law, or otherwise, what they did was provide misinformation to the public, causing them to waste lots of time and money. Within less than a week of the bulletin being published, they knew of the plan to make the bulletin unavailable, and they knew of the plan to try to approve 60,000 in a month, but did not warn the public. They had ample opportunity to correct the information in advance but did not.

Yes, I understand that this bait-and-switch may not be illegal on the part of USCIS/DOS; however, when government publishes something, they can sometimes be forced to stick to their word or provide remedies/compensation for the people who were harmed by their misinformation. We just have to see how it plays out in the courts.

 

[perm_lc]

For the past 30 years they would continue to accept I-485s when the quota ran out in the middle of the month. If that is violating the law, it would have been stopped a long time ago.
.

As I mentioned, accepting more 485s or less 485s in a month is not the violation of law. If they approve more than 140K in a year, it is a violation of law. There is vast difference between past 30 years and july 2007. In past 30 years, they might have accepted new 485s in a middle of month when visa was not available. Now the question is how much they accepted? They did not have any anticipation in previous years, how many will file for the next 15 days when visa number runs out. Perhaps, they might have recived, couple of 100 more 485s than they suppose to recive. During that time no PERM and no BEC and of course no demand like now due to IT impact.

However in July 2007, they have a clear cut data base how many will file 485if it is current. All the data was available due to completion of BEC and PERM system. Further, ombudusman clearly mentioned in his report that more than 700K people are ready to file 485, if PD become current on June 2007. How can one expect USCIS will accept 700K 485s for a just 10 to 15K remaining visa in FY 2007?

 

[rxrajamo]

Sachatur

I am clearly missing something here. I apologize as I am pretty new to these USCIS issues.

Your PD became current only on July 1st right ? So you could not have sent your I485 before that since USCIS would have rejected that.

As I understand, for one to be documentarily qualified, your application should have been already accepted by USCIS. When the July VISA bulletin came out in June your application was not even in. So not sure how they could have allotted you a VISA number in June ?

Thanks
RK

No offense taken. I would be bemused too, if I didn't understand the process.

I don't think many people understand that visa allocations for documentarily-qualified applications are actually made at the time a bulletin is released.
And even otherwise, if they worked on July 1st, my PD WAS CURRENT on July 1st, and a visa may have been allotted on July 1st.

Again, I have interpreted a congressional briefing by Charles Oppenheim, Chief, Immigrant Control and Reporting Division, Visa services office of the DOS here:
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showpost.php?p=1716172&postcount=3

 

[anjans]

data did not change

If they know that 700k were waiting to file I485, they had that data on June 12th also. So they should not have made "all" categories current.

Also that database will tell them how many people are waiting to file in which category and from which country.

 

[Jackolantern]

However in July 2007, they have a clear cut data base how many will file 485if it is current. All the data was available due to completion of BEC and PERM system. Further, ombudusman clearly mentioned in his report that more than 700K people are ready to file 485, if PD become current on June 2007. How can one expect USCIS will accept 700K 485s for a just 10 to 15K remaining visa in FY 2007?

I don't expect them to accept 700K. I expected them to provide the public with proper information about the situation. Officially tell the public not to make the effort to apply, because they plan to make the dates unavailable in July. Or tell DOS to update the bulletin ASAP, long enough before July arrives and people have spent lots of time and money.

 

[sachatur]

Sachatur

I am clearly missing something here. I apologize as I am pretty new to these USCIS issues.

Your PD became current only on July 1st right ? So you could not have sent your I485 before that since USCIS would have rejected that.

As I understand, for one to be documentarily qualified, your application should have been already accepted by USCIS. When the July VISA bulletin came out in June your application was not even in. So not sure how they could have allotted you a VISA number in June ?

Thanks
RK

No need to apologize. Here's what you are missing:
My PD became current again on July 1st 2007.
My I485 application was filed on Sep 29 2005 when my PD was current.

 

[byThorbyOdin]

never mind

 

[sachatur]

Waitamin...
Your PD per your signature is 8/2005 for EB2 India. When has that ever been current before July 1 2007??????

Don't mean to be snappy, but by Zeus! Life did not start with the July 2007 Bulletin.
EB2 India was current for a long time until Oct 2005. Retrogression only hit EB2 (in the last round) starting Oct 1 2005.
Here are the VB archives:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_1770.html

 

[perm_lc]

I don't expect them to accept 700K. I expected them to provide the public with proper information about the situation. Officially tell the public not to make the effort to apply, because they plan to make the dates unavailable in July. Or tell DOS to update the bulletin ASAP, long enough before July arrives and people have spent lots of time and money.

Exactly right. They did poor customer service. Lake of tranperency in the public office. Not much detailed information to customers. If they would have explanined clearly in the july VB (first one) about available visa numbers and what they are intend to do, then it might have not been this much mess. Having said that, they did not violate any law. However, most law firms and association knew before July itself, that USCIS is not going to accept any new 485 filings. Instead of advising the customers, they were preparing for law suit. That is the reason why they (DOS/CIS) updated their VB, to protect themself from law suit.

 

[maverick13]

Sachatur
Yours is the only case which I have seen so far which is EB2 India, PD in Aug 2005, RD in Sept 2005 and is already approved... Congrats!
My dates are identical to yours but ofcourse my case was filed at CSC and then transferred to NSC - so I have very little hope!

Btw did you get any RFE on the 485 before approval? Did you do anything different to expedite namecheck etc like contacting senators etc?

Don't mean to be snappy, but by Zeus! Life did not start with the July 2007 Bulletin.
EB2 India was current for a long time until Oct 2005. Retrogression only hit EB2 (in the last round) starting Oct 1 2005.
Here are the VB archives:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_1770.html

 

[perm_lc]

Sachatur
Yours is the only case which I have seen so far which is EB2 India, PD in Aug 2005, RD in Sept 2005 and is already approved... Congrats!
My dates are identical to yours but ofcourse my case was filed at CSC and then transferred to NSC - so I have very little hope!

Btw did you get any RFE on the 485 before approval? Did you do anything different to expedite namecheck etc like contacting senators etc?

There are many EB2 India folks with PD early 2004 and RD in 2004 and 2005 is still pending at NSC.

 

[Madboy]

Having said that, they did not violate any law.

I don't understand why you want to support CIS everywhere when they made legal tax paying immigrants (especially Indians) as fools. Is that because you are already have an EAD?

I am not a lawyer. But as per Murthy.com, Immigration-law.com and some other legal sites they say it is a clear violation and fraud.

Please read Zoe Lofgren's questions to CIS & even Rice. She says it is a clear violation.

Please understand that there is no law for illegals. But still government is able to create laws to protect them. Legals have to suck forever as they pay taxes.

Even I am not asking them to make it current again (They can do it if they still want to) as blunder can be done only once. But they can't run away with what they have done to many people. Atleast they have to pay a solid price for their blunder since they had enough time to correct it but they didn't do it because of their laziness. These people live on our money. They have to waive the Medical Report for whoever took medicals now to be valid forever. The other thing is they should not increase the fee for those who applied in July.

There are two different sets of people in this forum. One is lucky EAD people and other is unlucky non EAD people.