Shakti Kapoor
Registered Users (C)
Guys, please read the whole posting before deciding anything.
Basically if you want to be a part of this, just reply to this thread stating that you are in. We will proceed from there. Dont forget to read the article before proceeding further in the posting.
Recently I read an article at
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2005,0822-Donnelly.shtm
I was very much impressed by this article and decided to contact the author to find out his view about the whole immigration bill.
Here is the email communication that transpired between us
Shakti wrote - Dear Sir,
> > I read your article "Its not going to happen" and found it very
> > interesting.
> > Recently the visa numbers for Employment based categories for countries
> > like
> > India, China, Phillipines and Mexico have gone back to 1998-99. Our only
> > hope is the passage of any bill " Mccain kennedy or the other
> one".....Do
> > you think something will happen this year....or we might have to wait
> till
> > next year before they act " just to reap the fruits during election
> year".
> > I wrote this mail to you hoping that you might have more insight on the
> > timeline for this bill rather than us.
> > Let me know what you think.
AUTHOR REPLIED - Its not going to happen this year, next year...may be till spring 2007.
Politically, I just don't see that 1) there is a consensus in Congress
> on
> > either bill, or any way to get to one on a conferenceable piece of
> > legislation unless something changes, and 2) without an actual Bush
> > proposal, there isn't any legislation around which to rally the troops
> > (unless he endorses McCain-Kennedy or Kyle-Cornyn, either of which would
> > cost him something), and finally 3) I dunno as the President has much to
> > rally the troops WITH. It wasn't at all clear that he had the will to
> use
> > any of his political capital to pass an immigration bill even before
> Iraq
> > started dragging and the Katrina catastrophe. Now, it's not like he even
> HAS
> > a lot of political capital -- he's down to his hard core base, and those
> are
> > the folks who want a guest worker program and an amnesty LEAST.
> >
> > Substantively, the Bush administration hasn't come up with an actual
> plan
> > (which I predicted two years ago, that they would not), simply because
> to
> > HAVE a plan, you make to make choices. Those choices mean that no matter
> > what you do, the trade-offs are gonna piss off somebody. Bush has two
> habits
> > -- first, he doesn't like to hit singles and doubles, he wants home
> runs,
> > and second, he is not a details guy, he doesn't do contradictory policy
> > well. So when his guys get to the trade-offs, Bush loses interest.
> >
> > BUT -- I think there is an opportunity developing, if only because the
> > mess is sorta metastasizing. I had a series of meetings with members of
> the
> > Indian-American community some time ago,and I came away convinced that
> there
> > is a need for an independent effort that could also be an outlet, a
> forum --
> > a website, perhaps, which would be a way of raising the resources AND
> > focusing the effort. I concluded it would have to be independent --
> because
> > I've looked at some existing sites, and they are part of the problem,
> not
> > the solution, frankly. So to explore that further would take a small
> cadre
> > of leaders willing to put up modest amounts of money to build a 21st
> century
> > media and political organizing strategy. It has potential, but it needs
> > front money.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > - Paul D
SHAKTI WROTE - I guess you are right....i dont understand the specifics of Democrats vs
> Republican politics to fully understand the political impact of the
> immigration bills. Our only hope is HOPE....but I agree with you that we
> should start an independent forum to generate more media and political
> interest in our plight. I know couple of people who will be willing to
> donate substantial amount of money to start this process....but I don't
> know
> anybody who can take a leadership role in this. Since most of us ( who are
> still waiting for Green card) are in this country for around 5 years, we
> don't completely understand how things work here and how to make our
> voices
> heard.
> To be frank with you, i thought politicians in third world countries are
> the only ones who think about themselves and their gains rather than the
> benefit of people. I guess it happens in all the countries.....
> Can you suggest anything that we can do to atleast have our voices heard.
> Think like you are giving a piece of advice to a novice. We have a big
> forum
> at http://boards.immigration.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=40 where all
> the affected people come and give hope to each other. But I guess the
> voices
> are heard only in the forum and the plight is just inaudible to the people
> outside.
> Thanks for replying back to me. Any guidance from you in this would be
> heartily appreciated.
AUTHOR WROTE -
I know the forum
And something of the dynamics of the folks behind it.
>
> Basically, for 5 grand, I would set up a website and a forum that would be
> focused not on swapping "gee, how bad this all is" stories, but on building
> a MOBILIZABLE population of folks who want very specific reforms -- which is
> how to get the reforms you want.
>
> The website itself would generate more money, to do the heavy lifting of
> legislative lobbying. I would contract with the people who put up the seed
> money for a process by which everybody knows where the money is coming from,
> where it's giong, and what it's for.
>
> What I do NOT want (which is what happened to the idea before), is for it
> to become part of the petty sniping or co-opting agendas that often happens
> with new groups. I know some of the history of these efforts going back to
> 1994, so I'm pretty blunt about what I will and won't do. After 24 years of
> heavy lifting in the Senate, the House, and as communications director of a
> bipartisan Congressional commission (not to mention organizing the Green
> Cards, Not Guest Workers Coalition), I don't have a lot of patience with
> immigration lawyers who are political amateurs.
>
> But I'd love to find a small group of folks who would be willing to put up
> seed money to do this RIGHT -- because it is the right thing to do.
>
> If you think you do know a few people who might be interested in putting
> up the seed money, let's have lunch or a conference call.
>
> - Paul D
SHAKTI WROTE -
With your permission, should i paste this email in some groups where I know
people reading this mail would come up very quickly to generate 5 grand. 5
grand is not a big amount of money.....I feel we can get this going.
Just need your permission to post your mail in the forum
Thanks
AUTHOR WROTE -
You may include my email address and urge folks to contact me directly.
- Paul D
CONTACT INFORMATION FOR AUTHOR - pauldonnelly@mindspring.com
Basically if you want to be a part of this, just reply to this thread stating that you are in. We will proceed from there. Dont forget to read the article before proceeding further in the posting.
Recently I read an article at
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2005,0822-Donnelly.shtm
I was very much impressed by this article and decided to contact the author to find out his view about the whole immigration bill.
Here is the email communication that transpired between us
Shakti wrote - Dear Sir,
> > I read your article "Its not going to happen" and found it very
> > interesting.
> > Recently the visa numbers for Employment based categories for countries
> > like
> > India, China, Phillipines and Mexico have gone back to 1998-99. Our only
> > hope is the passage of any bill " Mccain kennedy or the other
> one".....Do
> > you think something will happen this year....or we might have to wait
> till
> > next year before they act " just to reap the fruits during election
> year".
> > I wrote this mail to you hoping that you might have more insight on the
> > timeline for this bill rather than us.
> > Let me know what you think.
AUTHOR REPLIED - Its not going to happen this year, next year...may be till spring 2007.
Politically, I just don't see that 1) there is a consensus in Congress
> on
> > either bill, or any way to get to one on a conferenceable piece of
> > legislation unless something changes, and 2) without an actual Bush
> > proposal, there isn't any legislation around which to rally the troops
> > (unless he endorses McCain-Kennedy or Kyle-Cornyn, either of which would
> > cost him something), and finally 3) I dunno as the President has much to
> > rally the troops WITH. It wasn't at all clear that he had the will to
> use
> > any of his political capital to pass an immigration bill even before
> Iraq
> > started dragging and the Katrina catastrophe. Now, it's not like he even
> HAS
> > a lot of political capital -- he's down to his hard core base, and those
> are
> > the folks who want a guest worker program and an amnesty LEAST.
> >
> > Substantively, the Bush administration hasn't come up with an actual
> plan
> > (which I predicted two years ago, that they would not), simply because
> to
> > HAVE a plan, you make to make choices. Those choices mean that no matter
> > what you do, the trade-offs are gonna piss off somebody. Bush has two
> habits
> > -- first, he doesn't like to hit singles and doubles, he wants home
> runs,
> > and second, he is not a details guy, he doesn't do contradictory policy
> > well. So when his guys get to the trade-offs, Bush loses interest.
> >
> > BUT -- I think there is an opportunity developing, if only because the
> > mess is sorta metastasizing. I had a series of meetings with members of
> the
> > Indian-American community some time ago,and I came away convinced that
> there
> > is a need for an independent effort that could also be an outlet, a
> forum --
> > a website, perhaps, which would be a way of raising the resources AND
> > focusing the effort. I concluded it would have to be independent --
> because
> > I've looked at some existing sites, and they are part of the problem,
> not
> > the solution, frankly. So to explore that further would take a small
> cadre
> > of leaders willing to put up modest amounts of money to build a 21st
> century
> > media and political organizing strategy. It has potential, but it needs
> > front money.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > - Paul D
SHAKTI WROTE - I guess you are right....i dont understand the specifics of Democrats vs
> Republican politics to fully understand the political impact of the
> immigration bills. Our only hope is HOPE....but I agree with you that we
> should start an independent forum to generate more media and political
> interest in our plight. I know couple of people who will be willing to
> donate substantial amount of money to start this process....but I don't
> know
> anybody who can take a leadership role in this. Since most of us ( who are
> still waiting for Green card) are in this country for around 5 years, we
> don't completely understand how things work here and how to make our
> voices
> heard.
> To be frank with you, i thought politicians in third world countries are
> the only ones who think about themselves and their gains rather than the
> benefit of people. I guess it happens in all the countries.....
> Can you suggest anything that we can do to atleast have our voices heard.
> Think like you are giving a piece of advice to a novice. We have a big
> forum
> at http://boards.immigration.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=40 where all
> the affected people come and give hope to each other. But I guess the
> voices
> are heard only in the forum and the plight is just inaudible to the people
> outside.
> Thanks for replying back to me. Any guidance from you in this would be
> heartily appreciated.
AUTHOR WROTE -
I know the forum
And something of the dynamics of the folks behind it.
>
> Basically, for 5 grand, I would set up a website and a forum that would be
> focused not on swapping "gee, how bad this all is" stories, but on building
> a MOBILIZABLE population of folks who want very specific reforms -- which is
> how to get the reforms you want.
>
> The website itself would generate more money, to do the heavy lifting of
> legislative lobbying. I would contract with the people who put up the seed
> money for a process by which everybody knows where the money is coming from,
> where it's giong, and what it's for.
>
> What I do NOT want (which is what happened to the idea before), is for it
> to become part of the petty sniping or co-opting agendas that often happens
> with new groups. I know some of the history of these efforts going back to
> 1994, so I'm pretty blunt about what I will and won't do. After 24 years of
> heavy lifting in the Senate, the House, and as communications director of a
> bipartisan Congressional commission (not to mention organizing the Green
> Cards, Not Guest Workers Coalition), I don't have a lot of patience with
> immigration lawyers who are political amateurs.
>
> But I'd love to find a small group of folks who would be willing to put up
> seed money to do this RIGHT -- because it is the right thing to do.
>
> If you think you do know a few people who might be interested in putting
> up the seed money, let's have lunch or a conference call.
>
> - Paul D
SHAKTI WROTE -
With your permission, should i paste this email in some groups where I know
people reading this mail would come up very quickly to generate 5 grand. 5
grand is not a big amount of money.....I feel we can get this going.
Just need your permission to post your mail in the forum
Thanks
AUTHOR WROTE -
You may include my email address and urge folks to contact me directly.
- Paul D
CONTACT INFORMATION FOR AUTHOR - pauldonnelly@mindspring.com
Last edited by a moderator:
, I think most of them are backing out. If it is some 20 or 30 bux, then you can see that lots will pitch in. Anyhow I am willing to share the burden.