Latest Memo on going COP

faysal

Registered Users (C)
This is the latest Memo regarding going back to country of persecution. PunjabMunda researched it and Produced it. Does this memo support or discaurage going back country of persecution?

Status of Refugees and Asylees Who Return to Countries of Alleged Persecution. Refugees and asylees and permanent residents as a direct result of refugees/asylees who return to the country where they claim to have been persecuted risk losing their status. When such individuals attempt to secure travel documents to return to the U.S., 8 C.F.R. section 223.2(b)(2)(ii) comes into play. Under this section, a refugee or asylee is eligible for a refugee travel document outside the U.S. if the "alien did not engage in any activities outside the U.S. that would be inconsistent with continued refugee or asylee status." According to the memo, refugees who return to visit an ailing parent are less likely to have engaged in an activity inconsistent with their status than those who get married with a view to reside there.
The memo also reviews the "cessation clauses" of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees; Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status (Handbook), which suggests that a refugee or asylee who returns to the country where he claims to have been persecuted may have "voluntarily availed himself of the protection of his country of nationality." The cessation clause includes three elements: (1) voluntariness (the refugee must act voluntarily); (2) intention (the refugee must intend by his action to re-avail himself of the protection of the country of his nationality); and (3) re-availment (the refugee must actually obtain such protection).
When a refugee visits his or her former country, overseas personnel are directed to investigate the facts surrounding the refugee's visit and determine whether the refugee continues to need international protection and whether the status should be revoked. Application of the cessation principles can result in the invalidation of unexpired travel documents. Nevertheless, the memo heeds the cautionary note suggested by the Handbook and directs that cessation principles be applied restrictively to permanent residents as a direct result of refugees/asylees. Thus, unless it is clear that the principles apply, doubts should be resolved in the permanent residents’ favor.
 
Source??????

From what I read, this applies to those who travel back to COP WITHOUT a travel document and then try to procure such document before returning back to US. And it applies to current refugees and asylees.

When you apply for GC, you apply for ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS, that means to change your status from asylee to permanent resident. Yes, you WERE an asylee once, but no more when you get your GC, because your status has been adjusted.

Just as someone who marries US citizen, common sense will tell you when it's OK and when it's not to divorce, or going back to COP, quit your job, etc.

Faysal, no offense but you need to get over your paranoia.
 
rdmo said:
Source??????

From what I read, this applies to those who travel back to COP WITHOUT a travel document and then try to procure such document before returning back to US. And it applies to current refugees and asylees.

When you apply for GC, you apply for ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS, that means to change your status from asylee to permanent resident. Yes, you WERE an asylee once, but no more when you get your GC, because your status has been adjusted.

Just as someone who marries US citizen, common sense will tell you when it's OK and when it's not to divorce, or going back to COP, quit your job, etc.

Faysal, no offense but you need to get over your paranoia.

I am not paranoiaed, and I haven't said anything about this. I just asking what you make of it. Someone posted this on the forum to advice someone. So I am asking your opinion.....After reading this, do you think it is advicable someone to go COP...that is the question...
 
It's like someone asking if it's ok to divorce their partner? Would you be able to say yes or no, just like that? Even if you know all the law...would you be able to answer to this person: yes or no?

The first thing I'd say is: "Well, tell me your story"

I'd like to know if this person has suffered in their marriage, do they have kids, how long have they been married, are they still in love, what would happen if they do divorce, what would happen if they don't, will they be able to support themselves after the divorce, have they considered all the pros and cons...

So many times it's ben said: IT'S NOT A BLACK AND WHITE SITUATION, not a "yes it's OK to go back to COP", or "no you can't go, you are fraud".

Just ask yourself some questions, the answer is within you. Only YOU can say yes or no.
 
faysal said:
I am not paranoiaed, and I haven't said anything about this. I just asking what you make of it. Someone posted this on the forum to advice someone. So I am asking your opinion.....After reading this, do you think it is advicable someone to go COP...that is the question...

What I understand is once you get your GC you are no longer asylee. Now you are LPR and you can travel when you want (It includes go back to COP) by using the GC and a valid NP. I don't know what exactly that memo want to say respect to LPR whom travel go back their COP.

Travelco
GC Holder since 01/28/05
 
You should read what you posted.

Just a couple of things

"When such individuals attempt to secure travel documents to return to the U.S., 8 C.F.R. section 223.2(b)(2)(ii) comes into play. Under this section, a refugee or asylee is eligible for a refugee travel document OUTSIDE the U.S. if "

in other words, if you leave US without securing travel documents in US, and apply for RTD or RP in yuor COP.
Well of course, if you left US without securing the permit to return one should assume that you did not plan to return to US. But if you have secured it before you left US 8 C.F.R. section 223.2(b)(2)(ii) does not come into play.
Kapische?

And
"Thus, unless it is clear that the principles apply, doubts should be resolved in the permanent residents’ favor."

let me repeat this

"Thus, unless it is clear that the principles apply, doubts should be resolved in the permanent residents’ favor."

and let me repeat it once more

"Thus, unless it is clear that the principles apply, doubts should be resolved in the permanent residents’ favor."

How many more times it needs to be repeated. If you go to COP, publicly attend pro-government rally, run for office and get ellected, probably the priciples apply, but in most other cases "DOUBTS SHOULD BE RESOLVED IN THE PERMANENT RESIDENT"S FAVOR"

It looks to me that you Faysal have some deep, personal need to instill fear in people.


Man, live and let live.
 
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I Don't Want Tyo Offend Anybody. But Some Sick Paranioa Should Get Over It.
Asylee Cannot Go To Gop( At Some Condition) But A Permanent Resident Even Resulting From Asylum Can Go With No Risk Of Getting Back To Usa And With No Risk Of Being Eligible For Citezenship. I Am More Than Sure.
Stop Being Paranoia, Negative And Discouraging.
 
themen said:
.......But A Permanent Resident Even Resulting From Asylum Can Go With No Risk Of Getting Back To Usa And With No Risk Of Being Eligible For Citezenship. I Am More Than Sure.......

Why are you so sure? Have you or anyone you know that went back to COP become a US citizen?

Any other facts to be so sure? Thanks in advance for helping to resolve this mysterious topic. Cl.
 
Hi Ci-asylee,
I Am So Totally Sure. I Have Been Reading Threats About Going To Cop After Obtaining The Pr Card. It's Total Non Sense, I Belong To A Country Troubled By War And Civile Strife.
1. I Know Almost 45 People Who Won Asylum, Went To Cop At Least Each Year Before Becoming Us Naturalized Citizen, They Are Full Us Citizen With No Question Ask At Citizenship Interview.
2. Aila Has Debated Several Times In Regards To That Topic "going To Cop".
2. A Visitor Or Student In Usa Later Married To A Us Person, Could Adjust His Status To Lpr. He Should Not Have Any Fear Of Going Back To Country Of Origine Because He Was Given A Tourist Or Student Visa. His Lpr Is The Result Of Adjustment Of Status.
The Fact Of The Matter Is: Visitor, Student,asylum, Refugee, Dv-lottery All Have In Commun The So-called Green Card Which Is Permanent Meaning (authorization To Stay And Travel Freely.
An Accountance Was Only An Asylee, His Day Had A Stroke And Was Very Sick, He Requested To The Uscis To Go To Cop To Care For His Father. The Request Was Approved He Went For A Month.
I Know One Guy After 7 Years Of Asylee Status He Was Fed Up And Went To Cop With No Request. He Was Sent To The Ij Upon His Return To The Us. He Was Able To Maintain His Asylee Status After Giving A Good And Valid Humanitarian Reason To The I.j.

But If A Permanent Resident Applied For Re-entry Permit And Spent 1 Or 2 Yaers In Cop, That A Serious Issue, You Could Be Denied Citizenship For The Ground Of "loyalty".

Conditions Changed In Cop, 2 Or 3 Weeks Even A Month Of Stay At Cop Could Not Arise Suspicions And Does Not Cause Any Violation.



Do Whatever You Feel Comfortabe With. But I Am More Than Cetrtain That Going To Cop After You Obtain You Pr For A Short Time Is More Than Fine.
 
themen said:
Hi Ci-asylee,
I Am So Totally Sure. I Have Been Reading Threats About Going To Cop After Obtaining The Pr Card. It's Total Non Sense, I Belong To A Country Troubled By War And Civile Strife.
1. I Know Almost 45 People Who Won Asylum, Went To Cop At Least Each Year Before Becoming Us Naturalized Citizen, They Are Full Us Citizen With No Question Ask At Citizenship Interview.
2. Aila Has Debated Several Times In Regards To That Topic "going To Cop".
2. A Visitor Or Student In Usa Later Married To A Us Person, Could Adjust His Status To Lpr. He Should Not Have Any Fear Of Going Back To Country Of Origine Because He Was Given A Tourist Or Student Visa. His Lpr Is The Result Of Adjustment Of Status.
The Fact Of The Matter Is: Visitor, Student,asylum, Refugee, Dv-lottery All Have In Commun The So-called Green Card Which Is Permanent Meaning (authorization To Stay And Travel Freely.
An Accountance Was Only An Asylee, His Day Had A Stroke And Was Very Sick, He Requested To The Uscis To Go To Cop To Care For His Father. The Request Was Approved He Went For A Month.
I Know One Guy After 7 Years Of Asylee Status He Was Fed Up And Went To Cop With No Request. He Was Sent To The Ij Upon His Return To The Us. He Was Able To Maintain His Asylee Status After Giving A Good And Valid Humanitarian Reason To The I.j.

But If A Permanent Resident Applied For Re-entry Permit And Spent 1 Or 2 Yaers In Cop, That A Serious Issue, You Could Be Denied Citizenship For The Ground Of "loyalty".

Conditions Changed In Cop, 2 Or 3 Weeks Even A Month Of Stay At Cop Could Not Arise Suspicions And Does Not Cause Any Violation.



Do Whatever You Feel Comfortabe With. But I Am More Than Cetrtain That Going To Cop After You Obtain You Pr For A Short Time Is More Than Fine.
i dont agree with you . u got your greencard through asylum status . it will alert officer about fraude . dont forget some ppl get GC in a few months after adjustment . so we cant be 100% SURE ABOUT going home . it is 50/50 .

i know ppl who got GC through marriage . and after a few months their greencards were revoked because of fake marriage .
 
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SINNERSROOM said:
i dont agree with you . u got your greencard through asylum status . it will alert officer about fraude . dont forget some ppl get GC in a few months after adjustment . so we cant be 100% SURE ABOUT going home . it is 50/50 .

i know ppl who got GC through marriage . and after a few months their greencards were revoked because of fake marriage .

You know, you heard - it's all hear say in the court of law. Those people of yours who got their cards revoked (if they do exist), got their "CONDITIONAL GREEN CARDS' revoked, not the permanent cards.
 
14ksusha said:
You know, you heard - it's all hear say in the court of law. Those people of yours who got their cards revoked (if they do exist), got their "CONDITIONAL GREEN CARDS' revoked, not the permanent cards.

It doesnt matter wether it is conditional or non conditonal GC. It is clear for officer in Black and White that GC was obtained through ASYLUM. and I am sure for 100% he/she will ask you about renewal of your NP.
and and there is no Law which would stop officer Question applicant about visit to COP.

Dont worry we will see how smart officer at citizinship interview.
to be honest with you i wouldnt risk .

if you wanna read (not to hear ) about marriage based non conditional and conditonal GC which were revoked by USCIS you can a search on Google..
 
SINNERSROOM said:
It doesnt matter wether it is conditional or non conditonal GC. It is clear for officer in Black and White that GC was obtained through ASYLUM. and I am sure for 100% he/she will ask you about renewal of your NP.
and and there is no Law which would stop officer Question applicant about visit to COP.

Dont worry we will see how smart officer at citizinship interview.
to be honest with you i wouldnt risk .

if you wanna read (not to hear ) about marriage based non conditional and conditonal GC which were revoked by USCIS you can a search on Google..

Fake marriages are more common than fake asylum applicants. To get a marriage-based visa is more easier than winning asylum. When we all won asylum, it was determined by USCIS that we deserved it or we wouldn't have gotten it. What we went through during our asylum interviews, marriage-based applicants go through the same thing after 2 years of conditional green cards. THEY ARE NOT JUDGED IF THEIR MARRIAGES ARE REAL OR NOT EVERYTIME AFTER THEY HAVE PROVED IT. Do you see marriage-based green carders worry about that? NO ..then why should we? WE have proved it once..

Everyone including the judges know that changes can happen in countries immediately. We were judged ONCE and we should not be judged everytime(if we deserved asylum) everytime we enter/exit country or during U.S Citizenship interviews. Its not how this country laws work...You proved it and thats it.

Yes fraud happens. There was a story on cnn.com about bosnians who claimed refugee but failed to mention that they were part of the army and were in hand in "ethnic-cleansing"...

My philosphy is, if you haven't done anythng wrong, why should you be scared of anything? Lazer posted a great piece on "our paranoia's" and how the officers fuel their paranoia based on ours.

I think its time we stop being paranoid and do as what USCIS says..to renew NP(if you can) and travel freely.
 
wantmygcnow said:
Fake marriages are more common than fake asylum applicants. To get a marriage-based visa is more easier than winning asylum. When we all won asylum, it was determined by USCIS that we deserved it or we wouldn't have gotten it. What we went through during our asylum interviews, marriage-based applicants go through the same thing after 2 years of conditional green cards. THEY ARE NOT JUDGED IF THEIR MARRIAGES ARE REAL OR NOT EVERYTIME AFTER THEY HAVE PROVED IT. Do you see marriage-based green carders worry about that? NO ..then why should we? WE have proved it once..

Everyone including the judges know that changes can happen in countries immediately. We were judged ONCE and we should not be judged everytime(if we deserved asylum) everytime we enter/exit country or during U.S Citizenship interviews. Its not how this country laws work...You proved it and thats it.

Yes fraud happens. There was a story on cnn.com about bosnians who claimed refugee but failed to mention that they were part of the army and were in hand in "ethnic-cleansing"...

My philosphy is, if you haven't done anythng wrong, why should you be scared of anything? Lazer posted a great piece on "our paranoia's" and how the officers fuel their paranoia based on ours.

I think its time we stop being paranoid and do as what USCIS says..to renew NP(if you can) and travel freely.
First of all i am not paranoia about anything if i want i will visit COP nobody will find out except god.everysmart asylee knows there is a way to go there :) .

2nd who is LAzer ? why should i trust him?
noeone can guaratee me that i will be safe at interview. Officer doesnt care about lawyer or lazer.
 
Iwant, I like this piece. Folks, I am travelling to COP tomorrow with NP and I will be back in three weeks. I will post my experience at the JFK airport for you. Wish me a Good Trip and have Merry X-mas for people who celebrate it like myself. For other I don't know.....
 
Good luck freedom. you will be ok when you come back to the USA. Let us know when you get here again. Enjoy your family and real friends at you country. Cl.

freedoms12 said:
Iwant, I like this piece. Folks, I am travelling to COP tomorrow with NP and I will be back in three weeks. I will post my experience at the JFK airport for you. Wish me a Good Trip and have Merry X-mas for people who celebrate it like myself. For other I don't know.....
 
wantmygcnow said:
Fake marriages are more common than fake asylum applicants. To get a marriage-based visa is more easier than winning asylum. When we all won asylum, it was determined by USCIS that we deserved it or we wouldn't have gotten it. What we went through during our asylum interviews, marriage-based applicants go through the same thing after 2 years of conditional green cards. THEY ARE NOT JUDGED IF THEIR MARRIAGES ARE REAL OR NOT EVERYTIME AFTER THEY HAVE PROVED IT. Do you see marriage-based green carders worry about that? NO ..then why should we? WE have proved it once..

Everyone including the judges know that changes can happen in countries immediately. We were judged ONCE and we should not be judged everytime(if we deserved asylum) everytime we enter/exit country or during U.S Citizenship interviews. Its not how this country laws work...You proved it and thats it.

Yes fraud happens. There was a story on cnn.com about bosnians who claimed refugee but failed to mention that they were part of the army and were in hand in "ethnic-cleansing"...

My philosphy is, if you haven't done anythng wrong, why should you be scared of anything? Lazer posted a great piece on "our paranoia's" and how the officers fuel their paranoia based on ours.

I think its time we stop being paranoid and do as what USCIS says..to renew NP(if you can) and travel freely.

Well put WantmyGCnow. You are right, POE is not going to be the place where we will have to present our case again and again every time we enter this country with proper US issued documents. If there is fraud in your case, it will ultimately be discussed in the court, and not during your entry or citizenship interview. USCIS officers may challenge you any time, ask you weird questions at the POE or during interviews, take away your RTD, take you into the room, - that's their job. They deal with so many people and situations! If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be fearful of them, it's as simple as that!
 
SINNERSROOM said:
It doesnt matter wether it is conditional or non conditonal GC. It is clear for officer in Black and White that GC was obtained through ASYLUM. and I am sure for 100% he/she will ask you about renewal of your NP.
and and there is no Law which would stop officer Question applicant about visit to COP.

Dont worry we will see how smart officer at citizinship interview.
to be honest with you i wouldnt risk .

if you wanna read (not to hear ) about marriage based non conditional and conditonal GC which were revoked by USCIS you can a search on Google..

yes it does matter. Conditional Green Card in marriage are set for two years during which you are supposedly still married to your spouse. If you get divorced during your conditional status, yes, you risk losing your conditional residency (still, there is a bunch of excuses for keeping your status even after divorce, such as an abusive marriage). Once you get your PERMANENT GC, you will keep it even if you got divorced. They may ask you questions about it during your citizneship interview, but that fact alone (divorce after permanent GC) will not disqualify you from citizeneship
 
freedoms12 said:
Iwant, I like this piece. Folks, I am travelling to COP tomorrow with NP and I will be back in three weeks. I will post my experience at the JFK airport for you. Wish me a Good Trip and have Merry X-mas for people who celebrate it like myself. For other I don't know.....

Good trip and merry chirstmas freeedom, enjoy with your family and your friends and be sure you will not face any problem when you come back.
Good luck

Travelco
GC holder since 01/05
 
just my thoughts...

Everybody has the same concern on whether it is ok to go back to cop after becoming a LPR or not, and this discussion will go on and on until all those LPR's that decided to take the risk become US citizens. When the IO scans your GC at POE, all your information comes up, and they'll know that you got your LPR status through political asylum.

So, if I travel back to my COP and get back safe and sound, what are the IO's thinking when they let someone back into the US ??

Should they send everybody into the room for extra screening?

Should they deport you right away ?

I know that Political Asylum issues must be resolved at an immigration court, so they can't deport you at POE. So, Why do they let people back in without any problems whatsoever? Is it because there is no problem in going back to COP for a short while??, or is it because none of all the IO's that exist in this country read the memo saying that LPR's through asylum are not to travel back to their COP...

All these questions, which I don't have answers for, lead me to one last question:

If it is not allowed for a LPR through asylum to travel back to COP, and when he returns the IO at POE lets him back into the country, no questions asked, what is Immigration game plan ??

I don't think they are trying to make you believe that you are getting away with something, and then get you back on your citizenship interview.

Now, there are lots of LPR's that live in their countries, and come to the US once a year with the sole purpose of not losing such status, so that's an entirely different scenario if they got their PR's through asylum. How do you explain an IO that you live in your COP, or spent 6 months, or a year there ?? That would arise a lot of questions, indeed.

So far I haven't heard of the first REAL case of someone being deported for traveling back to COP for a REASONABLE amount of time and a LOGIC explanation. We all have heard lots of myths and tales, but still haven't come across a real experience.

These are only my thoughts on the subject, and the only certain thing is that everybody must use their best judgement when making a decision.

Good luck to everyone,
 
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