Kerry on Employment based immigration and H1

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Baykarår ♥

Registered Users (C)
What does it mean in America today when Dave McCune, a steel worker I met in Canton, Ohio, saw his job sent overseas and the equipment in his factory literally unbolted, crated up, and shipped thousands of miles away along with that job? What does it mean when workers I've met had to train their foreign replacements?
America can do better. So tonight we say: help is on the way.
 
I think you are mixing two unrelated issues here. While he is opposed to outsourcing, we haven't heard from him what he is going to help the thousands of immigrants who are suffering delays at the hands of DHS.

Outsourcing should be limited otherwise we and our kids won't have a future here.

Immigration reforms and backlog reduction are the issues that directly affect us and we should make an effort to make him know that, go to johnkerry.com and send him an email via contact us. Efery small effort will make a difference.
 
JOYD - Read this

Training foreign replacement does not in any way relate to outsourcing. (He is totally against outsourcing too!) He was talking about a job which was lost by an America born to an Indian Computer Professionals who came on H1B. The Irony was that his employer forced him to train his Indian replacement. (This was in news a few months ago).

He likes Latino immigrants whose predecessors are his vote banks and who are being courted by Republicans too.
 
Baykarår ♥ said:
Training foreign replacement does not in any way relate to outsourcing. (He is totally against outsourcing too!) He was talking about a job which was lost by an America born to an Indian Computer Professionals who came on H1B. The Irony was that his employer forced him to train his Indian replacement. (This was in news a few months ago).

He likes Latino immigrants whose predecessors are his vote banks and who are being courted by Republicans too.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? Can you point me to any link. By training foreign replacement, I am pretty sure he meant about Americans having to train their overseas replacements and not ppl on H1B here. You got it all wrong.
 
Guys,

Cool down, we're in the middle of an electoral campaign, both of them will say things that they'll never do ... remember Bush's plan in 2000 to reduce waiting time to 6 months? Now we hear again the same story polished for 2004 Latino voters.
 
nemessis said:
Guys,

Cool down, we're in the middle of an electoral campaign, both of them will say things that they'll never do ... remember Bush's plan in 2000 to reduce waiting time to 6 months? Now we hear again the same story polished for 2004 Latino voters.
Click to expand...
Nemessis
You said it nicely! Politicians-say things that they'll never do ! So don't hope or loose hope based on any crap they say.
 
nemessis, you are correct but at this time we are not going to get any sympathy from either parties.

This is a capitalist economy and big businesses run the show. They will always need more technical, cheaper manpower meaning H1s and ways to save money by any means e.g. outsourcing.
 
As a country and citizens of the country, no one likes their existing jobs going outside their country. Worst yet is to train the replacement. (counter argument is jobs are outsourced and porducts are imported because it cheaper and more people can afford to buy the resulting product... But the employee of a company is also the consumer of a product. They are not disconnected events...The media potrays it that way. Without a paycheck regardless of the price of the product no one can afford to buy anything whether it be USA or India or anywhere in the world)

That said, Kerry as president can only level the playing field, and any country would do the same.

The way I look at it. Ending tax breaks will only slow down the rate of outsourcing (since so much has already been invested by companies in increasing effeciency of the outsourcing infrastructure). This will also slow the import of goods means balancing the trade books which is very vital.

This would also increase the rate of employment (also good for the immigrant community) by the american industry in the USA. Employers will hire more. The more the employed the more the taxes, the more the taxes you can fund more programs and reduce the defecits. Defecits are the key and hope Kerry gets it under control. I think this is what he is aiming at (same as Clinton).

No country can keep importing and increasing the defecit and ask the other nations to trust the goodwill of the US Dollar for ever.

Year Deficits (surpluses in parentheses) Percentage of GDP President
1991 $269 billion 4.5
1992 $290 billion 4.7 Clinton (1st term)
1993 $ 255 billion 3.9
1994 $203 billion 2.9
1995 $164 billion 2.2
1996 $107.5 billion 1.4 Clinton (2nd term)
1997 $22 billion 0.3
1998 ($69 billion) 0.8
1999 ($126 billion) 1.4
2000 ($236 billion) 2.4
2001 ($127 billion) 1.3 Bush (1st term)
2002 $158 billion 1.5
2003 $375 billion 3.5
2004 $477 billion 4.2
Source: CNN Money
 
JOYD : Be Real

Joyd

In which world do you live? Come out of your box and look around! Kerry's example specifically related to a H1B from India. I do not keep details but maybe you can request details from Kerry and then you will believe me. Also if you search the net you will find a lot. There are hundreds of stories like that in news. Some links are :


http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=39

http://www.h-1bs.com/viewtopic.php?p=34&sid=1d1a3c5c67cc52dbe51b168477caa037

http://www.victimsvoice.org/wall/greed/


joyd said:
Are you sure about this?

I AM POSITIVE

Can you point me to any link.

You can ask Kerry and I am sure you will get all the details.

By training foreign replacement, I am pretty sure he meant about Americans having to train their overseas replacements and not ppl on H1B here. You got it all wrong.
Click to expand...

Lastly as Rajan123 correctly said "Politicians-say things that they'll never do ! So don't hope or loose hope"
 
Future of Outsourcing

No President can stop outsourcing of jobs from private sector. The only thing they can do is impose taxes to make it little more expensive and to tell the public that they did someting to retain the job here. (like Republicans stopped outsourcing of all the Govt jobs).

Whether you like it or not but THE FUTURE IS DEFINATELY OUTSOURCING. No one can stop it.


Xanathos said:
As a country and citizens of the country, no one likes their existing jobs going outside their country. Worst yet is to train the replacement. (counter argument is jobs are outsourced and porducts are imported because it cheaper and more people can afford to buy the resulting product... But the employee of a company is also the consumer of a product. They are not disconnected events...The media potrays it that way. Without a paycheck regardless of the price of the product no one can afford to buy anything whether it be USA or India or anywhere in the world)

That said, Kerry as president can only level the playing field, and any country would do the same.

The way I look at it. Ending tax breaks will only slow down the rate of outsourcing (since so much has already been invested by companies in increasing effeciency of the outsourcing infrastructure). This will also slow the import of goods means balancing the trade books which is very vital.

This would also increase the rate of employment (also good for the immigrant community) by the american industry in the USA. Employers will hire more. The more the employed the more the taxes, the more the taxes you can fund more programs and reduce the defecits. Defecits are the key and hope Kerry gets it under control. I think this is what he is aiming at (same as Clinton).

No country can keep importing and increasing the defecit and ask the other nations to trust the goodwill of the US Dollar for ever.

Year Deficits (surpluses in parentheses) Percentage of GDP President
1991 $269 billion 4.5
1992 $290 billion 4.7 Clinton (1st term)
1993 $ 255 billion 3.9
1994 $203 billion 2.9
1995 $164 billion 2.2
1996 $107.5 billion 1.4 Clinton (2nd term)
1997 $22 billion 0.3
1998 ($69 billion) 0.8
1999 ($126 billion) 1.4
2000 ($236 billion) 2.4
2001 ($127 billion) 1.3 Bush (1st term)
2002 $158 billion 1.5
2003 $375 billion 3.5
2004 $477 billion 4.2
Source: CNN Money
Click to expand...
 
I agree with joyd

My interpretation of Mr. Kerry's speech yesterday was similar to that of Joyd's. I think Kerry meant the foreign replacement and not the H1B replacement. But then, I am no expert.
 
Kerry meant H1 and L1 - See just another story

Associated Press
Software Engineer Wants Outsourcing Ban
Monday July 19, 8:37 am ET
Software Engineer Who Lost Job to Foreign Workers Wants Vote on Outsourcing Ban in Colo.


DENVER (AP) -- A software engineer who twice lost jobs to foreign workers is hoping Coloradans will get a chance to vote on whether to bar the state from relying on workers overseas.
Richard Armstrong, 40, of Parker is leading a corps of volunteers to collect enough signatures to place the issue on November's ballot.

Armstrong, a self-described "independent progressive" who has never gotten involved in politics before, said he began working against "outsourcing" to foreign workers in 2000 after he was laid off twice and saw co-workers going through the same thing. At US West, which is now Qwest, Armstrong said he trained his replacement.

"We feel that taxpayers have the right to decide where their taxpayer dollars are spent," said Armstrong, who runs the Web-based National Hire American Citizens Society.

Armstrong's initiative would bar the state from hiring temporary workers overseas and hiring temporary foreign workers in the United Statesd . Legal U.S. residents could still be hired.

Companies that contract with the state could have foreign workers but they couldn't work on state projects.

A similar outsourcing ban was rejected by a state Senate committee this year. Lawmakers said adding another law will not help companies compete and that the state's computer system would have to be replaced because some of the jobs to maintain it are overseas.

No other states have adopted such measures.

Armstrong believes that outsourcing ultimately hurts the economy because laid-off workers have less to spend and contribute less in taxes. Supporters of outsourcing say it's part of the competitive global economy and that the money saved helps pay for new technology that leads to new kinds of jobs.

Armstrong said he has been flooded with e-mails from people who have had similar experiences. He has also teamed up with a laid-off tech worker from Georgia, Glenn Jackson, who is pushing for a similar ban in that state.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040719/outsourcing_ban_2.html
 
Face it. Be Real

joyd and asmodean

Face it. Priorities keep changing. Soon after you get your Green cards, you will be scared of H1 and L1 too ( + outsourcing from India). Because they will be the biggest threat to your job.

You too after getting citizenship will try to get your relatives here and talk of stopping H1 and L1 altogether to save your and your kids jobs.

Look at Mr Khatri who is trying to speed up the family based green card but does not talk about Employment based. Any idea, why?
 
True. The story you posted above, though it is mostly about "outsourcing", it does have a mention about "foreign workers in usa". But this is a separate story and probably is different than what Kerry was mentioning in his speech yesterday (and what your original post was).

There is increasing pressure on Government projects to give those jobs and contracts to US citizens. There are people in some quarters opposing H1s and GCs. There are even more people who are opposing "outsourcing". Also, I am not arguing against the changing priorities. That could very well be true and I won't be surprised. BUT, your original post with the excerpt from yesterday's Kerry's speech" might be (IMHO) only referring to "outsourcing".
 
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Kerry Meant H1

One more link for your info:
http://www.hireamericancitizens.org/



asmodean said:
True. The story you posted above, though it is mostly about "outsourcing", it does have a mention about "foreign workers in usa". But this is a separate story and probably is different than what Kerry was mentioning in his speech yesterday (and what your original post was).

There is increasing pressure on Government projects to give those jobs and contracts to US citizens. There are people in some quarters opposing H1s and GCs. There are even more people who are opposing "outsourcing". Also, I am not arguing against the changing priorities. That could very well be true and I won't be surprised. BUT, your original post with the excerpt from yesterday's Kerry's speech" might be (IMHO) only referring to "outsourcing".
Click to expand...
 
Xanathos said:
(counter argument is jobs are outsourced and porducts are imported because it cheaper and more people can afford to buy the resulting product... But the employee of a company is also the consumer of a product. They are not disconnected events...The media potrays it that way. Without a paycheck regardless of the price of the product no one can afford to buy anything whether it be USA or India or anywhere in the world)
Click to expand...

Without boring everyone with economics 101, there is a simple commonsense argument which says Xanathos has got it all mixed up. The assumption Xanathos makes is that in an economy the size of US, there are are only few types of jobs. Let me explain this: If Ms A working for an insurance compay as a cust rep loses her job to a call center in Asia, for sure she wont be buying the new music system she was planning on. But then again, the money saved by the insurace company will be passed on the customers of the insurace company, not Ms A. The individual benifit to each cust. might be a few dollars each but the aggregate benifit is larger to the economy - higher profits for the company, hence higher tax to the govt, higher investment by the company etc.

The truth is that the negative effects of glabalization (including out-sourcing or buying goods from cheaper locations) are always concentrated, affecting a small focussed group of people, but the benifits are diffused in the society and economy at large. Which is why its easy to coin simplistic slogans and point examples of suffering, but much harder to explain benifits to lay persons.

OK that part was non-contoversial - but here I might be flamed - but I'm saying that anyway - Many immigrants or would be immigrants are alarmed about outsourcing since that would 'affect' their children. Now even if we ignore the inherent hypocrisy due to the fact that the very reason most are here is because of that fact, there is something else which might not be obvious. Say I'm a programmer - why on earth would I want my son/daugher to be a programmer too??? Why cannot he/she become Anything else? Why not a rock-star? A lawyer? A politician? Why do they expect their next generation to be clones of themselves - only with an accent? The fear of outsourcing says more about the lack of confidence of these people, and more crucially, their failure to integrate culturally and economically and really understand what america is all about.
In this aspect at least I agree with americans who are sceptical about immigration - If it were my country I would think the same - If these people cannot integrate and do not have an ounce of the chutzpah of earlier immigrants, I would'nt want them either.
 
I know its the outsourcing is the trend. I can accept that and I also fear that.

"No one can stop outsourcing" if thats the case your US dollar will be worthless in years to come. Remember the dollar is backed only by good will (Not Gold anymore) and the power of the fed to print more. Fed cannot keep printing if the account books of the nation is not sound. Currently the economy needs a minimum of a billion dollars of input (in various forms) daily to keep it going.

In short, Trade and budget defecits are not good, and any sound minded politician will have to work to stop this. Any household is not run on accumulating defecits year over year.

I believe, that the power of the president and his policies can work towards balancing the budget and trade defecits.

Also, remember more people can immigrate to the US only if there are jobs here. There are many people here with I-140, I-485 or H1-B application pending or approved application or wishing to immigrate to the US. At this stage if we say its better to work in India/elsewhere to others with similar dreams we would be nothing but hypocrites.
 
Just a reminder, H1B program is not to replace American workforce, it it merely to fill up positions for which no qualified American was found suitable. So some of these websites that were brought up here don't know what they are talking about.

Outsourcing on the otherhand is to replace the American Workforce, which Kerry was talking about.

Once can interpret a speech in whatever twisted way one can, but the fact of the matter is use common sense.

My 2 cents..
 
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