J1 research to J1 residency
- Thread starter Enfield
- Start date
That depends on whether your J1 research came with a 'foreign residency requirement' (HRR) or not. The HRR kicks in if you:
- receive funding from your home goverment
- receive funding from the US goverment (NIH,NSF etc)
- your job title shows up on the 'skills list' as beeing 'in need' in your home country.
If you DON'T have a HRR, you can just change into a different visa category (H1b, O1, F1, green-card). When you change however, USCIS might request an 'advisory opinion' from the department of state on whether you are subject to the HRR. THIS is the point where the rubber meets the road. If DOS finds that you have an HRR and documents it in their advisory opinion, you have one.
If you DO have an HRR, you need to obtain a waiver. For a non-physician HRR the common way to obtain a waiver is by submitting an official letter from your home goverment that states that they don't object if you don't return. Depending on your home country, it can be easy or difficult to obtain that letter. If they believe that you should return and serve the citizens of your home country, they are free to deny it. (one exception: US goverment funding. No waiver available here, except for political persecution or exceptional hardship).
- receive funding from your home goverment
- receive funding from the US goverment (NIH,NSF etc)
- your job title shows up on the 'skills list' as beeing 'in need' in your home country.
If you DON'T have a HRR, you can just change into a different visa category (H1b, O1, F1, green-card). When you change however, USCIS might request an 'advisory opinion' from the department of state on whether you are subject to the HRR. THIS is the point where the rubber meets the road. If DOS finds that you have an HRR and documents it in their advisory opinion, you have one.
If you DO have an HRR, you need to obtain a waiver. For a non-physician HRR the common way to obtain a waiver is by submitting an official letter from your home goverment that states that they don't object if you don't return. Depending on your home country, it can be easy or difficult to obtain that letter. If they believe that you should return and serve the citizens of your home country, they are free to deny it. (one exception: US goverment funding. No waiver available here, except for political persecution or exceptional hardship).
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Thanks
Thanks Hardon,
I am a Canadian permanent resident and Canada is not listed on the 'skills list'. And I am not sure if Canadian authorities give a 'no objection' in order to apply for the waiver.
Another question is: Can I continue to volunteer on my B1/B2? and for how long?I undertand I cannot overstay the 6 month period but is it easy to get an extension or return after going back to Canada for sometime and then again stay for 6 months?
Enfield
Thanks Hardon,
I am a Canadian permanent resident and Canada is not listed on the 'skills list'. And I am not sure if Canadian authorities give a 'no objection' in order to apply for the waiver.
Another question is: Can I continue to volunteer on my B1/B2? and for how long?I undertand I cannot overstay the 6 month period but is it easy to get an extension or return after going back to Canada for sometime and then again stay for 6 months?
Enfield
> I am a Canadian permanent resident and Canada is not listed on the
> 'skills list'. And I am not sure if Canadian authorities give a 'no
> objection' in order to apply for the waiver.
Don't know how CDN handles this.
> Another question is: Can I continue to volunteer on my B1/B2? and for
> how long?I undertand I cannot overstay the 6 month period but is it
> easy to get an extension or return after going back to Canada for
> sometime and then again stay for 6 months?
You are playing with fire here. 'volunteering', B1/B2, extensions...
What did you state on you I-94 when you entered ?
> 'skills list'. And I am not sure if Canadian authorities give a 'no
> objection' in order to apply for the waiver.
Don't know how CDN handles this.
> Another question is: Can I continue to volunteer on my B1/B2? and for
> how long?I undertand I cannot overstay the 6 month period but is it
> easy to get an extension or return after going back to Canada for
> sometime and then again stay for 6 months?
You are playing with fire here. 'volunteering', B1/B2, extensions...
What did you state on you I-94 when you entered ?
> I said I was visiting
Ooops !
You better tread lightly from now on. While it is legal to volunteer, do observerships or even study on B1, it is NOT lawful to do this if you entered the country as a 'visitor' on B2. If you want to do these things, you have to state it on your visa application or at the port of entry.
Whatever you are doing right now, you better don't write it anywhere on your CV. Years down the line, when you try to go for a h1b or a GC this can come back to bite you in the )$#. You might have to give a minute by minute account of all your prior trips to the US. If anyone official EVER asks you what you did in this time period it was 'visiting friends and relatives', be sure that all paperwork you submit jives with that.
And stay away from B1/B2 extensions. The guys at USCIS are slow, but not stupid. They can imagine that some 70year old parents 'visit' their kids for a 9 month period. But if a young person tells them about their 9month vacation they just KNOW that they are being lied to.
Ooops !
You better tread lightly from now on. While it is legal to volunteer, do observerships or even study on B1, it is NOT lawful to do this if you entered the country as a 'visitor' on B2. If you want to do these things, you have to state it on your visa application or at the port of entry.
Whatever you are doing right now, you better don't write it anywhere on your CV. Years down the line, when you try to go for a h1b or a GC this can come back to bite you in the )$#. You might have to give a minute by minute account of all your prior trips to the US. If anyone official EVER asks you what you did in this time period it was 'visiting friends and relatives', be sure that all paperwork you submit jives with that.
And stay away from B1/B2 extensions. The guys at USCIS are slow, but not stupid. They can imagine that some 70year old parents 'visit' their kids for a 9 month period. But if a young person tells them about their 9month vacation they just KNOW that they are being lied to.
> So does that mean if I wish to volunteer I can do so on a B1/B2
> visa by telling them at the consulate or the port of entry?
I believe so. You will need a letter from your host institution outlining what you are going to do and emphasizing that this is not work and that you don't get any sort of monetary or nonmonetary consideration for your services.
> Do they frown upon that or is it common?
They do frown upon that. In many cases 'volunteering' is just a thinly veiled cover for illegal work. People get paid cash under the table or they receive a place to live in return. Getting a B1 for observerships or volunteer work is dependent on what consulate you apply for your visa at. Forget it in India, China or Nigeria. I know folks who did this from some european countries including the UK without a problem. I don't know how the consulates in canada handle this. At the port of entry, again you need to bring paperwork from the host and paperwork demonstrating that you hold a regular job back home and that you have other things like a house with a mortgage to go back to.
They want to avoid exactly the scenario you are trying to pull off. (visitor to J1 to H1 to 'take the job of a hard working american away')
> visa by telling them at the consulate or the port of entry?
I believe so. You will need a letter from your host institution outlining what you are going to do and emphasizing that this is not work and that you don't get any sort of monetary or nonmonetary consideration for your services.
> Do they frown upon that or is it common?
They do frown upon that. In many cases 'volunteering' is just a thinly veiled cover for illegal work. People get paid cash under the table or they receive a place to live in return. Getting a B1 for observerships or volunteer work is dependent on what consulate you apply for your visa at. Forget it in India, China or Nigeria. I know folks who did this from some european countries including the UK without a problem. I don't know how the consulates in canada handle this. At the port of entry, again you need to bring paperwork from the host and paperwork demonstrating that you hold a regular job back home and that you have other things like a house with a mortgage to go back to.
They want to avoid exactly the scenario you are trying to pull off. (visitor to J1 to H1 to 'take the job of a hard working american away')
Be sure to have your paperwork in order. Nothing is more stupid than loosing your GC 5 years down the line during your adjustment interview over this.
To be safe: Don't volunteer. Come as a student or any other visa that explicitly allows you to do these kinds of things.
To be safe: Don't volunteer. Come as a student or any other visa that explicitly allows you to do these kinds of things.
Enfield,
It seems that your goal is to get into residency program.
If that is the case, why not try Canadian institutions for Research, observsership etc. I know I'm going to raise some #@$@#@ but I'm going to say
Canadian medical institutions are regarded very high.
Just a thought.
It seems that your goal is to get into residency program.
If that is the case, why not try Canadian institutions for Research, observsership etc. I know I'm going to raise some #@$@#@ but I'm going to say
Canadian medical institutions are regarded very high.Just a thought.
Just start calling programs now, fax mail email your CV and express your interest in a position. There are allways some positions that pop up during the year, usually bc somebody leaves. Once you have your foot in the door down here, you can allways 'trade up'. People change residencies at times, lets say you start out in some smalltown FP program and after a year you find some good IM program it is allways possible to move up. Also, there are many IM prelim positions that remained unmatched, they can be a good start to get you foot in the door.
observantships, volunteer work, etc...
Hey Hadron,
as you might remember I am still figuring out what to do in the time between finishing my PGY-2 in surgery and starting my PGY-2 in ENT in 2006.
What options are out there?
Can I stay on an F-1 visa?
Do I have to leave the country?
Can I go somewhere that is not my home country (like Europe)?
Could I, say, work at a consulate with an A-1 visa or something?
Anyway, regarding Enfields dilemma, I agree; join a residency program, just get your foot in the door, it is sooo much easier to move up from there and find a place you really want to be at doing what you like.
Thanks!
Hey Hadron,
as you might remember I am still figuring out what to do in the time between finishing my PGY-2 in surgery and starting my PGY-2 in ENT in 2006.
What options are out there?
Can I stay on an F-1 visa?
Do I have to leave the country?
Can I go somewhere that is not my home country (like Europe)?
Could I, say, work at a consulate with an A-1 visa or something?
Anyway, regarding Enfields dilemma, I agree; join a residency program, just get your foot in the door, it is sooo much easier to move up from there and find a place you really want to be at doing what you like.
Thanks!
Can't you do a PGY3 in surgery somewhere (how long is ENT? would that max out your J1 time).
I honestly don't know how it worked if you had a 1 year break in your J1. I believe you can switch from J1 to F1, but the problem will be financing a year in schools without income in the US.
> Can I go somewhere that is not my home country (like Europe)?
I wouldn't know why not.
I honestly don't know how it worked if you had a 1 year break in your J1. I believe you can switch from J1 to F1, but the problem will be financing a year in schools without income in the US.
> Can I go somewhere that is not my home country (like Europe)?
I wouldn't know why not.
I could but the problem is that I would not be allowed to switch specialties if I do more than 2 years in gen surg.
ENT is four years. Is the max on the J-1 7 years? what if you need to extend? say, for fellowship or something?
I agree, the F-1 option might be more a problem because of the money, besides, it's kind of late in the year already to apply.
ENT is four years. Is the max on the J-1 7 years? what if you need to extend? say, for fellowship or something?
I agree, the F-1 option might be more a problem because of the money, besides, it's kind of late in the year already to apply.
> I could but the problem is that I would not be allowed to switch specialties
Ah, right, I forgot.
> ENT is four years. Is the max on the J-1 7 years? what if you
> need to extend? say, for fellowship or something?
You can extend for a couple of months to take your boards. Also, a friend of my wife managed to extend a 1 year fellowship by 6 months to wait for his fiancee to finish up her PhD before they returned. If the program makes the case to ECFMG, they can get the status extended beyond the 7 years (you can stay as long as you get your DS2019 extended, it might be difficult to get another J1 for re-entry at that point). But like anything that's discretionary, I wouldn't want to bank on it.
> I agree, the F-1 option might be more a problem because of the money,
> besides, it's kind of late in the year already to apply.
Well, you can allways sign up at a community college on short notice. But if you wanted to do something thats useful as a physician, e.g. going to business school, you would need some lead time.
Ah, right, I forgot.
> ENT is four years. Is the max on the J-1 7 years? what if you
> need to extend? say, for fellowship or something?
You can extend for a couple of months to take your boards. Also, a friend of my wife managed to extend a 1 year fellowship by 6 months to wait for his fiancee to finish up her PhD before they returned. If the program makes the case to ECFMG, they can get the status extended beyond the 7 years (you can stay as long as you get your DS2019 extended, it might be difficult to get another J1 for re-entry at that point). But like anything that's discretionary, I wouldn't want to bank on it.
> I agree, the F-1 option might be more a problem because of the money,
> besides, it's kind of late in the year already to apply.
Well, you can allways sign up at a community college on short notice. But if you wanted to do something thats useful as a physician, e.g. going to business school, you would need some lead time.
The problem is that if you continue in residency beyond your second year, then you are not allowed to switch specialties anymore, right?
ENT is 4 years, so I think I am ok in terms of the maximum number of years (7 right?).
Now, do J-1 research years count towards the maximum?
My other question: that year or so inbetween, does it count towards HRR?
Thanks again.
ENT is 4 years, so I think I am ok in terms of the maximum number of years (7 right?).
Now, do J-1 research years count towards the maximum?
My other question: that year or so inbetween, does it count towards HRR?
Thanks again.
I thought you cannot switch residencies after your second year (PGY-2).
By the time I'm done, I will have done 6 years of clinical J-1 + 1 year research J-1 before hand. Does this year count towards the max 7 years? hopefully not, otherwise I won't be able to do fellowship.
the other question, does this year inbetween count towards HRR?
they told me I have to apply as a new sponsorhip, which means I have to get a new statement of need and all that. I hope that doesn't mean I will have two J-!s back to back and now I acumulated 4 years HRR!!!!
By the time I'm done, I will have done 6 years of clinical J-1 + 1 year research J-1 before hand. Does this year count towards the max 7 years? hopefully not, otherwise I won't be able to do fellowship.
the other question, does this year inbetween count towards HRR?
they told me I have to apply as a new sponsorhip, which means I have to get a new statement of need and all that. I hope that doesn't mean I will have two J-!s back to back and now I acumulated 4 years HRR!!!!